HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Marcel Hossa's spot on the first line

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-25-2003, 10:39 AM
  #1
didjuicythat
@m_desroches
 
didjuicythat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,251
vCash: 500
Marcel Hossa's spot on the first line

Boy, oh boy. I might get ripped for this one. Anyone else thinks Hossa doesn't belong to the first line? After seeing AHL ice time in Hamilton most of last year, he was already promoted with Zednik and Ribeiro since Day 1 of the camp this year. It's not really the appropriate position for him to be, in my opinion. From time to time he looks good -- mostly because of Ribeiro's brillance -- but other times he looks lost on the ice, as if he didn't know exactly what's his role on that line.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the guy. I'd bet he'll have a decent career in the NHL, but I personally don't feel he's ready for 1st line duties yet. I hate to hear people say we can't change anything in this line. Some people just don't seem to understand Ribeiro carries this line on his shoulders? If Mike takes one night off, the entire line will look brutal. When he gets used on the powerplay, he's often the one that messes up with the attack, and allows the other team to get the puck out of the zone. It's about time Koivu comes back in the line up, so we can use true, proven 1st liners.

Hossa will get his opportunity sooner or later, he just isn't ready quite yet for 1st line responsibilities. Playing on the 2nd and maybe 3rd line couldn't hurt his development all that much, IMO. Just think about it for a second, say whatever you want, but how many teams in the league would have Marcel on their 1st line? That's what I thought!

didjuicythat is offline  
Old
10-25-2003, 10:46 AM
  #2
hockey_nut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,770
vCash: 500
I'll go easy on ya

Hossa's done a great job on a line with Ribeiro and Zednik. Whether it's marked as the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th line... doesn't matter. That line has performed very well in just about every aspect. It gets the puck, they create scoring chances, they score, they hit (sometimes, lol)... they're a weapon and it doesn't look like they'll disengage just yet. Keep them together... no need to split the line up.

hockey_nut is offline  
Old
10-25-2003, 10:53 AM
  #3
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,269
vCash: 500
A few points I have to make....


First, I don't think it's too relevant to place line numbers on each line. Ribeiro's line is one of two scoring lines, and both have been productive. This is just a pet peeve of mine as I'm not a huge fan of line numbers, since they're not generally used in hockey (outside of the fan/media aspect).

Secondly, I've liked Hossa's play a lot lately. About a week ago I said that I felt Hossa would be best suited to simply drive the net on each play to get him going offensively. He's a big body and skilled, so he'll get some tip ins or at the very least wreak some havoc. I've only started watching the Isles game, but he's been doing this on almost every shift so far, bringing two Isles with him much of the time, creating room for Ribeiro and Zednik. This is precisely what I'd like to see more of from Hossa.

Thirdly, I find Hossa's presence on the line to go largely unnoticed due to the 'small things' that he's done well. He's a big body that isn't afraid of the danger areas (crease, down low, etcetera). He battles well along the boards and dishes the puck to his linemates quickly. Hossa opens up space for Ribeiro to work, and I don't think Ribeiro would be nearly as effective without Hossa.

Lastly, Hossa is generally the defensive conscience for the line. He's the first man to backcheck and pick up his man, and has been strong defensively from the getgo, in my opinion.

Mike8 is offline  
Old
10-25-2003, 10:56 AM
  #4
Habsaku
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,554
vCash: 500
I don't see whats wrong with developping a player by putting him on the first line. I like what Hossa's been doing, he backchecks and forechecks well, he hits, he uses his size, he battles along the boards and makes some fine passes. He's got powerforward written all over him and we all know how much time it takes to developp one. If we lose our patience we'll only stop his progression. That line is doing quite well so let's not break up real chemistry.

Habsaku is offline  
Old
10-25-2003, 10:59 AM
  #5
Rahan
Registered User
 
Rahan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chicoutimi
Posts: 1,760
vCash: 500
[QUOTE=Habsaku]he hits, he uses his sizeQUOTE]



I've had my words on Hossa already so I'll leave it at that

Rahan is offline  
Old
10-25-2003, 11:00 AM
  #6
KnuklZ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek
Your argument is somewhat flawed, because i could just go ahead and say how many NHL teams would have Ribeiro as their 1st line Center?
ouch

KnuklZ is offline  
Old
10-25-2003, 11:02 AM
  #7
didjuicythat
@m_desroches
 
didjuicythat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,251
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek
Your argument is somewhat flawed, because i could just go ahead and say how many NHL teams would have Ribeiro as their 1st line Center?
That was not my point, I think I have been misunderstood here. Ribeiro, as I said in my previous post, is actually carrying this line on his shoulders, and if Mike wasn't there to set up plays for Marcel and Richard, this line would be a pain to watch. Eventually, when Ribeiro will have a tough night, you'll realize all of sudden all three look bad. I think Hossa isn't looking quite as good as people say he is... I'd say it's more Ribeiro making him look good. Big difference. With that being said, I don't feel Ribeiro would be a #1 center, Koivu is. But he's injured. We have no wingers injured (except for Kilger and Langdon), and Hossa is still #1 left winger. Something's not right here.

didjuicythat is offline  
Old
10-25-2003, 11:04 AM
  #8
KnuklZ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsFan
Some people just don't seem to understand Ribeiro carries this line on his shoulders? If Mike takes one night off, the entire line will look brutal.
This comment made me laugh...say anything but don't say Ribeiro CARRIES the line on his SHOLDERS.

Ribeiro doesnt do any carrying whatsoever, if anything he is the brains on this line making the nifty move/pass. If Hossa isnt on this line Ribeiro would have the puck much less as he isn't the one to win the puck from the opposition but rather expects Hossa do to all that.

I say let them play and I am pretty sure that Hossa will be the best player on this line at the end of the year

KnuklZ is offline  
Old
10-25-2003, 11:06 AM
  #9
didjuicythat
@m_desroches
 
didjuicythat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,251
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnuklZ
I say let them play and I am pretty sure that Hossa will be the best player on this line at the end of the year
It's so easy to believe you, and give you credibility here, with such great comments and arguments brought to the table.

didjuicythat is offline  
Old
10-25-2003, 11:08 AM
  #10
KnuklZ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsFan
That was not my point, I think I have been misunderstood here. Ribeiro, as I said in my previous post, is actually carrying this line on his shoulders, and if Mike wasn't there to set up plays for Marcel and Richard, this line would be a pain to watch. Eventually, when Ribeiro will have a tough night, you'll realize all of sudden all three look bad. I think Hossa isn't looking quite as good as people say he is... I'd say it's more Ribeiro making him look good. Big difference. With that being said, I don't feel Ribeiro would be a #1 center, Koivu is. But he's injured. We have no wingers injured (except for Kilger and Langdon), and Hossa is still #1 left winger. Something's not right here.
I agree with you that Ribeiro makes Hossa and Z look better as he is feeding them nice passes BUT the same could be said for Hossa as well as he makes Ribeiro look better than he is also. Imagine Hossa not doing all the dirty work and hence that line would lose all battles along the boards and if Hossa isnt backchecking I bet you that Ribeiros +- would be ****.

KnuklZ is offline  
Old
10-25-2003, 11:11 AM
  #11
KnuklZ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsFan
It's so easy to believe you, and give you credibility here, with such great comments and arguments brought to the table.
Dont believe me...its just my opinion and no I am no hockey expert just someone that wants to see our youngsters given a chance to play and prove themselves. Hossa playing the role he is supposed to and doing it well is good enough for me right now. Once he gains confidence he will be able to show off some of his other skills and Ribeiro would be great paired up with him as I think they compliment each other very well.

KnuklZ is offline  
Old
10-25-2003, 11:14 AM
  #12
KnuklZ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek
First of all you must understand the habs are very limited when it comes to scoring wingers. Now instead of saying you don't want Hossa there, why don't you say who you want there, and you must understand, we aren't Colorado, we run 4 lines out there, we don't only focus mostly on 2 lines, you must take that into consideration.
Good points...who would be a better fit for this line?? Bulis is doing just fine on the Juneau line and Koivu will be playing Center imo.

The only player I could see on that line is Ryder but then the Perrault line is useless

KnuklZ is offline  
Old
10-25-2003, 11:18 AM
  #13
Habsaku
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
I've had my words on Hossa already so I'll leave it at that

I'm gonna elaborate: He doesn't hit frequently, but he still hits, which can't be said about a lot of our players.


He uses his size: He's probably the only one on that line that fights for the puck behind the net, he's also the only one who goes in front of the net, look at his goal thursday night, he was just in front of the net with a defensemen on his shoulders.

Habsaku is offline  
Old
10-25-2003, 11:19 AM
  #14
didjuicythat
@m_desroches
 
didjuicythat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,251
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek
First of all you must understand the habs are very limited when it comes to scoring wingers. Now instead of saying you don't want Hossa there, why don't you say who you want there, and you must understand, we aren't Colorado, we run 4 lines out there, we don't only focus mostly on 2 lines, you must take that into consideration.
I would easily choose Bulis in front of him, that's for sure. If you have the ability to show offensive sparks and create some scoring chances with defensive-minded guys like Juneau and Dackell, that must be meaningful, at some point. I know they've alway had good chemestry, and all that, but I can't see why he couldn't have his chance to prove he can do better than Hossa at doing the 'dirty' work, as some people like calling it. Before saying this line is a lock, and it couldn't be any better with other wingers instead of Hossa and Zednik, why don't we start by trying just for fun? Anyway, the two offensive lines which we relied on since game #1 have been less and less dominant every game, from what I've seen, and a change in the lines wouldn't be that dramatic.

Maybe that's just because I always want to try new things, but I think it's a good thing to make appropriate changes, just to see what impact it could have. Not only on Ribeiro's line, but also on Perreault's. Speaking of Perreault's line, at some point, you gotta understand 3 goal scorers will have a hard time scoring goals, unless they're able to do it all by themselves. At some point, they'll need a quality playmaker to set up plays -- hello Saku.

didjuicythat is offline  
Old
10-25-2003, 12:37 PM
  #15
caper13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: cape breton nova scotia
Posts: 392
vCash: 500
unless you are watching hossa and no one else we dont see the things that he dose especially for a kid in the nhl.

caper13 is offline  
Old
10-25-2003, 12:49 PM
  #16
didjuicythat
@m_desroches
 
didjuicythat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,251
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plekanec
You wanted the kids to play this year... So Hossa is playing on an offensive line, he do a nice overall job learning and improving game in game, plus we win and you would want demote him?
We do want do see youth this year, that's true. But the fact is we do not necessarily want them in 1st liner roles yet (speaking for myself). Not too long Marcel was considered as a third liner in development who was close to being sent down to Hamilton. Now people want him to be a legitimate 1st liner. Is that what you call pressure? I think so. What scares me is people saying Marcel will still having 1st line ice time when Saku comes back. People are so excited about this line doing great together they forget it could be even better IF ONLY we let guys like Bulis prove so and won't let Koivu take his spot. That was my point.

didjuicythat is offline  
Old
10-25-2003, 01:02 PM
  #17
KnuklZ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsFan
We do want do see youth this year, that's true. But the fact is we do necessarily want them in 1st liner roles yet (speaking for myself). Not too long Marcel was considered as a third liner in development who was close to being sent down to Hamilton. Now people want him to be a legitimate 1st liner. Is that what you call pressure? I think so. What scares me is people saying Marcel will still having 1st line ice time when Saku comes back. People are so excited about this line doing great together they forget it could be even better IF ONLY we let guys like Bulis prove so and won't let Koivu take his spot. That was my point.
How is 15 minutes a game 1st line icetime??? Its actually 25% of available icetime so as a forward kinda average no?

KnuklZ is offline  
Old
10-25-2003, 02:00 PM
  #18
didjuicythat
@m_desroches
 
didjuicythat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,251
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnuklZ
How is 15 minutes a game 1st line icetime??? Its actually 25% of available icetime so as a forward kinda average no?
Ok, you got me on that point. Let's put this another way; he's not ready for first line responsibilities, instead of first line ice time. Is that better? That's what I meant by first line ice time. :p These were the first words that came to my mind... see english is my second language!

didjuicythat is offline  
Old
10-25-2003, 02:15 PM
  #19
All-Star
Registered User
 
All-Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snake Mountain
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,430
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsFan
Hossa will get his opportunity sooner or later, he just isn't ready quite yet for 1st line responsibilities. Playing on the 2nd and maybe 3rd line couldn't hurt his development all that much, IMO. Just think about it for a second, say whatever you want, but how many teams in the league would have Marcel on their 1st line? That's what I thought!
Marcel is playing on the second line. The Perrault line is the first line until Koivu returns (completely recovered)... At the end of last season, the Hossa/Ribeiro/Zednik line was the second line behind the Bulis/Koivu/? (I forget who) line. Now because Koivu is injured, the Ribeiro line is getting more ice-time... While the line keeps producing on a regular basis, I doubt Julien would be foolish enough to start making changes to it...

All-Star

All-Star is offline  
Old
10-25-2003, 02:17 PM
  #20
gohabsgo2010
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: sign Patrick Poulin
Posts: 2,622
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to gohabsgo2010
I'd prefer to play Ryder with Ribeiro and Zednik, but that would mean Marcel Hossa would play left wing alonside Perreault.

While Ryder may not be as willing to dish the puck as Hossa, he can perform well in the corners, off the wing, or in front of the net.

However, removing Ryder from Perreault's wing would not be a great idea in my opinion. Mike is the spark that keeps Perreault going, and I don't think Hossa could do that job. Does Hossa - Perreault - Audette look very promising to you?

The forwards, for the most part, are playing well. I think we should leave things alone until we need to add some bodies. Good chemistry translates into a winning team.

gohabsgo2010 is offline  
Old
10-25-2003, 07:24 PM
  #21
KnuklZ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsFan
Ok, you got me on that point. Let's put this another way; he's not ready for first line responsibilities, instead of first line ice time. Is that better? That's what I meant by first line ice time. :p These were the first words that came to my mind... see english is my second language!
Neither is it mine He may not be your typical high scoring LW but we really don't have one right now. The Ribeiro line needs someone that can burry the puck, play good defensive hockey and win the puck along the boards. Hossa is doing a good job in all but the goal scoring department. I heard ppl say Bulis would be a good replacement...well guess what...he has had way more chances to score than Hossa and he managed to score zilch.

KnuklZ is offline  
Old
10-26-2003, 09:49 AM
  #22
Guriken
Registered User
 
Guriken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Quebec, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 443
vCash: 500
Pushing the puck like Hossa is doing is not a hard job in my opinion. Going to the board is what every player in the team is doing right now, the only difference is that hossa get stuck on the boards. Then, he loses the puck.

If you notice some plays, when Ribeiro has the puck, he rarely passes it to Hossa, often to Zednik but not to Hossa... why?


Guriken is offline  
Old
10-26-2003, 09:53 AM
  #23
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,269
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guriken
Pushing the puck like Hossa is doing is not a hard job in my opinion. Going to the board is what every player in the team is doing right now, the only difference is that hossa get stuck on the boards. Then, he loses the puck.

If you notice some plays, when Ribeiro has the puck, he rarely passes it to Hossa, often to Zednik but not to Hossa... why?

Generally because Zednik is crossing the blueline with more speed.

I don't see what you're talking about with Hossa losing the puck along the boards. He's been one of Montreal's stronger players on the boards and on the forecheck. He also provides much more space for Ribeiro to work down low, given his size and speed.

In fact the only player that's been stronger along the boards than Hossa has been Ryder in my opinion. Everyone else has been beaten more often than not in the offensive zone, save for perhaps Bulis and Zednik.

Mike8 is offline  
Old
10-26-2003, 02:37 PM
  #24
Rahan
Registered User
 
Rahan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chicoutimi
Posts: 1,760
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
I don't see what you're talking about with Hossa losing the puck along the boards. He's been one of Montreal's stronger players on the boards and on the forecheck. He also provides much more space for Ribeiro to work down low, given his size and speed.
Even Juneau keeps the puck more than Hossa. More often than not, Hossa tosses it around where there's no one and we get a turnover.

Rahan is offline  
Old
10-26-2003, 04:59 PM
  #25
Guy!
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 840
vCash: 500
Tough call on a Hab team that isn't really loaded with high-octane forwards, but the question that immediately comes to mind is this: who else fits?

Many good points have been brought up here including Hossa's underrated ability to control the boards, which I think is the key to his game, at this point. He's also been going to the net more and more frequently each game. I also feel I can see, in his play, an improvement in his confidence level which is making him a better player.

Now, the comments on his passing abilities are warranted, I'll admit. I find that, while he does great work on the boards, unless someone is there to do something with the puck he's won, it's usually just a board win and a missed opportunity - or at least it has been. I've found that his passing has improved tremendously in the past two or three games. Take a closer look next game, I think you might be surprised at the subtlety of his passing game.

Of course, there's still the question of whether or not he belongs on the 'first' line. Quick answer: no. There's not a shadow of doubt in my mind that he is playing above his station, but the counter to that is where do you think he belongs?

Personally, I think he should presently be on the third line with Juneau and Dackell where he'll be supported by good defensive players which will minimize any defensive deficiencies, but also because it's a good fit for him chemistry-wise. He's played with these two before and they were a good line together. Problem here is why take Bulis off that line when clearly his presence elevates the collective game of Juneau and Dax.

Furthermore, who would replace him on that 'first' line? Bulis in a straight trade-off? It's not the right fit, in my opinoin. Bulis doesn't win the boards the same way Hoss does, and therefore you'd be missing something specific that the line has been using to succeed.

So what to do? My answer? Wait. He's fine enough for now on that line, but what Hoss needs is someone that's going to make him a better player. Ribby, despite his good sight, isn't that player, he's just not at that level. Zednik is too selfish a player to make anyone else better. In my opinion, Hoss should be immediately placed on Koivu's line.

First you have a centre that will consistently find Hoss in the open (much like Ribby, but with more frequency, since Koivu won't get pushed off the puck even half as much). Second, you have a player that will support Hoss on the boards, and will talk (Ribby is much quieter on the ice, from all I've seen...) to Hoss and let him know what's up. Third, Sax is a point-a-game player, or very close to it, and Hoss will inevitably get more points - and therefore more confidence - than he would with Ribs. (I know, I know, Ribs is about a point-a-game now, but I don't think he'll keep that up over the course of a complete season.)

So, a line with a digger and a set-up guy; all it needs is a finisher. Leave Zed with Ribs so the latter can keep his confidence up and put Ryder with Koivu. Interesting combo, isn't it.

A concerned fan.

Guy! is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:43 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.