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Old
10-27-2003, 04:56 PM
  #26
hmminvisiblecola1279
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no doubt the cba has to change thank you dale dont worry i realize brewer and especially smith are overpaid as well. for the guys here who consistently blame the defence for salos woes are misinformed and the reality is the whole team is to blame. they are not that good period. :moon:

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10-27-2003, 05:26 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Cawz
I cant believe you people wishing for Niinimaa to come back. He was the one who would throw it up the middle to be intercepted. He was the one on the point when the puck would bounce over his stick on the pp. He was the one who would be sliding to block the 2 on 1 pass and the puck would go in off his butt. He was a good assister, thats it. If he was still on our payroll, we would be complaing about the money we are paying him.
Not too sure what you're exactly talking about... so you're basing Janne's entire career as an Oiler on perhaps 2 or 3 events. Come now... a bit overgeneralizing much?

He was extremely solid for this Oiler club in the last 3 years... His only major fault was losing the puck over the blueline on the powerplay. Janne was solid at either end of the ice, a leader on the ice and carried the defense on his back.

If he was still on our payroll, we'd be saying how lucky we are to have a #1 dman on our team for 2.9 million. The fact of the matter is that Janne could play 26-28 minutes a night consistently and could go over 30 if the situation required. We have NO ONE that can do that currently and it's not even close.

Yes, he was a good "assister" as you like to call it. And I'd say that his breakout passes and "assists" would invaluable to us at the moment... as that is a glaring problem with the team right now. And that isn't even including his other strengths.

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10-27-2003, 05:38 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by momentai
Not too sure what you're exactly talking about... so you're basing Janne's entire career as an Oiler on perhaps 2 or 3 events. Come now... a bit overgeneralizing much?

He was extremely solid for this Oiler club in the last 3 years... His only major fault was losing the puck over the blueline on the powerplay. Janne was solid at either end of the ice, a leader on the ice and carried the defense on his back.

If he was still on our payroll, we'd be saying how lucky we are to have a #1 dman on our team for 2.9 million. The fact of the matter is that Janne could play 26-28 minutes a night consistently and could go over 30 if the situation required. We have NO ONE that can do that currently and it's not even close.

Yes, he was a good "assister" as you like to call it. And I'd say that his breakout passes and "assists" would invaluable to us at the moment... as that is a glaring problem with the team right now. And that isn't even including his other strengths.
I dunno man - I'm still not convinced. I seem to remember swearing at my tv in the general direction of Niinimaa more than most other players. I agree with his ice time and being a leader, but I was never sold on his defensieve ability.

Mabye youre right and he would settle our defensive squad, but I'm still not sold on him. When he got traded, I remember saying at least we dropped Carter and Niinimaa instead of Smyth and Brewer. I'd take Brewer over Niinimaa any day (except for the last 2 weeks. I'm hoping his head comes out of his butt soon.)

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10-27-2003, 05:44 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Cawz
I dunno man - I'm still not convinced. I seem to remember swearing at my tv in the general direction of Niinimaa more than most other players. I agree with his ice time and being a leader, but I was never sold on his defensieve ability.

Mabye youre right and he would settle our defensive squad, but I'm still not sold on him. When he got traded, I remember saying at least we dropped Carter and Niinimaa instead of Smyth and Brewer. I'd take Brewer over Niinimaa any day (except for the last 2 weeks. I'm hoping his head comes out of his butt soon.)
It's just your opinion. If we disagree, it's fine. But I thought he was the absolute backbone for this defensive corp during his tenure and he contributed everywhere he could.

If I had to choose between Brewer and Niinimaa at 2.5 million and 2.9 million respectively, I choose Niinimaa no question. Niinimaa is only 27 and has already been a #1 dman on this team and shown he is capable of putting up #1 minutes and a 40 pt season. Brewer has been inconsistent at best during his time here. He tickled us with his performance after the Olympics and we haven't seen that side of him since.

Brewer is still learning... and isn't really ready for that #1 role at all yet it seems. It still amazes me how he let Richard Park outmuscle him from behind the net to give up the gamewinner.

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10-27-2003, 05:51 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentai
It's just your opinion. If we disagree, it's fine. But I thought he was the absolute backbone for this defensive corp during his tenure and he contributed everywhere he could.

If I had to choose between Brewer and Niinimaa at 2.5 million and 2.9 million respectively, I choose Niinimaa no question. Niinimaa is only 27 and has already been a #1 dman on this team and shown he is capable of putting up #1 minutes and a 40 pt season. Brewer has been inconsistent at best during his time here. He tickled us with his performance after the Olympics and we haven't seen that side of him since.

Brewer is still learning... and isn't really ready for that #1 role at all yet it seems. It still amazes me how he let Richard Park outmuscle him from behind the net to give up the gamewinner.
You seemed to have erased his first couple of seasons in Edmonton from your mind...

He developed well, and certainly changed, but he perfectly describes the Niinimaa that first came to the Oilers.

The point is, he eventually got to the point where he was almost irreplaceable...

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Old
10-27-2003, 05:55 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
You seemed to have erased his first couple of seasons in Edmonton from your mind...

He developed well, and certainly changed, but he perfectly describes the Niinimaa that first came to the Oilers.
I believe I did mention.. that I was referring to his last 2-3 years with Edmonton. It's right in my first post here in this thread. I never forgot it at all.

Perhaps he was describing correctly the Niinimaa that first came to the Oilers. But the fact remains that he was describing the "irreplacable" Niinimaa of the last few years in those terms and NOT the Niinimaa during his first few years.

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10-27-2003, 05:56 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentai
It's just your opinion. If we disagree, it's fine. But I thought he was the absolute backbone for this defensive corp during his tenure and he contributed everywhere he could.

If I had to choose between Brewer and Niinimaa at 2.5 million and 2.9 million respectively, I choose Niinimaa no question. Niinimaa is only 27 and has already been a #1 dman on this team and shown he is capable of putting up #1 minutes and a 40 pt season. Brewer has been inconsistent at best during his time here. He tickled us with his performance after the Olympics and we haven't seen that side of him since.

Brewer is still learning... and isn't really ready for that #1 role at all yet it seems. It still amazes me how he let Richard Park outmuscle him from behind the net to give up the gamewinner.
Ya, well Niinimaa had better players to learn from than Brewer. Brewer is #1 so I guess he has to learn from himself. If he learns from his mistakes, he should be an all star any time now. Brewer has the low point of the season so far with that giveaway. I'm hoping he gets it out of his system early. When Brewer is on top of his game, hitting, skating, dekeing, I'll take him over Niinimaa. We havent seen it much though, but the rest of the team is just as guilty. I'm hoping this time off will give them time to think.

Or mabye I'm bias since Brewer plays for the Oilers and Niinimaa not.

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Old
10-27-2003, 06:07 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentai
But the fact remains that he was describing the "irreplacable" Niinimaa of the last few years in those terms and NOT the Niinimaa during his first few years.
Ya, I never thought he was irreplacable, and I wasnt mad he got traded. I was sad when I saw the interview, thats about it.

Brewer and Niinimaa were suposed to be the same type of player, and Brewer has more of an upside. If we had to let one go, I would have done the same as Lowe. Hopefully he can find a defenceman for Comrie and Brewer can develop with the pressure off a bit.

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Old
10-28-2003, 10:42 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Cawz
Ya, I never thought he was irreplacable, and I wasnt mad he got traded. I was sad when I saw the interview, thats about it.

Brewer and Niinimaa were suposed to be the same type of player, and Brewer has more of an upside. If we had to let one go, I would have done the same as Lowe. Hopefully he can find a defenceman for Comrie and Brewer can develop with the pressure off a bit.
Maybe part of the reason people want Janne back is that Isbister has done nothing.
Torres will be a good player for years to come but Isbister has been a disappointment thus far. Time will tell, but for right now we lost that deal. Bitter pill to swallow as top defensemen are hard to come by.

As for Brewer. Expectations are high for him because he is playing worse than he did two years ago. I don't think the heat has been turned up all that much more with him this season, he's just plain playing badly. We are totally justified in thinking he can and must be way better than he has been thus far this season.

As for Salo. He has the worst statistics of any starting goalie in the NHL, and makes well above the average salary for a starter. GAA over 3.50 and svp under .860. That's brutal. And you can't say that it's just the team playing badly in front of him. Belfour had a brutal defense in front of him last year and his stats were fantastic because he ELEVATED his game. That's what all-stars and top money guys are expected to do. Salo hasn't done it for more than a season. His play has been a major reason for the Oilers rough start. Period.

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Old
10-28-2003, 11:06 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cawz
Ya, well Niinimaa had better players to learn from than Brewer. Brewer is #1 so I guess he has to learn from himself. If he learns from his mistakes, he should be an all star any time now. Brewer has the low point of the season so far with that giveaway. I'm hoping he gets it out of his system early. When Brewer is on top of his game, hitting, skating, dekeing, I'll take him over Niinimaa. We havent seen it much though, but the rest of the team is just as guilty. I'm hoping this time off will give them time to think.

Or mabye I'm bias since Brewer plays for the Oilers and Niinimaa not.
Agreed. It is VERY tough. Niinimaa had Hamrlik and Mirnov to learn from. Brewer has..... Brewer. I think when Lowe was coaching him that helped him ALOT. But as you said, when playing their VERY best - I take Brewer easily over Niinimaa. Brewer on his good games reminds me of Blake - VERY TOUGH, is great at joining or leading a rush, and won't get caught because of his great speed. But on his bad days Brewer looks like any 24 year old who has big expectations and is suffering growing pains.

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Old
10-28-2003, 11:08 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM
Maybe part of the reason people want Janne back is that Isbister has done nothing.
Torres will be a good player for years to come but Isbister has been a disappointment thus far. Time will tell, but for right now we lost that deal. Bitter pill to swallow as top defensemen are hard to come by.

As for Brewer. Expectations are high for him because he is playing worse than he did two years ago. I don't think the heat has been turned up all that much more with him this season, he's just plain playing badly. We are totally justified in thinking he can and must be way better than he has been thus far this season.

As for Salo. He has the worst statistics of any starting goalie in the NHL, and makes well above the average salary for a starter. GAA over 3.50 and svp under .860. That's brutal. And you can't say that it's just the team playing badly in front of him. Belfour had a brutal defense in front of him last year and his stats were fantastic because he ELEVATED his game. That's what all-stars and top money guys are expected to do. Salo hasn't done it for more than a season. His play has been a major reason for the Oilers rough start. Period.
I agree with you. But I think it's more of a combination of Salo's half-assed play mixed with the teams half assed defensive play. Tommy is getting hung out to dry WAY to often - but he also isn't coming up with the big save often enough.

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