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Old
03-09-2006, 06:09 PM
  #1
Dig Out Your Soul
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Post Deadline Discussion - Where are we now?

As a whole, how is this team shaping up for the playoffs now that the roster is solidified?

In my opinion, this team is next to no better than they were before today. Defense is slightly improved, offense is not improved.

Gauthier, I'm a little excited about. He adds some stability to the back end, it will keep Jones and Therien out of the lineup as long as Hatcher can play next game and for the rest of the year. If Johnsson comes back, we're looking at a top 6 of:

Hatcher Desjardins
Rathje Pitkanen
Johnsson Gauthier

...which I think is pretty solid, with the exception of Rathje's slowness. Meyer is the 7th guy, he'll fill in for Johnsson in the next while, or perhaps for the rest of the year if KJ can't come back. But, I thought the defense was solid when healthy before Gauthier got here.

On offense, I'm severely disappointed. Dimitrakos seems like a nice player and everything, I mean hey, he can skate with some speed, but we really needed goal scorers. I understand Clarke made a big push for Recchi, but it didn't happen. With the amount that Ottawa gave up for Arnason and likewise Edmonton for Samsonov, how come we couldn't put together a better deal for one of those two offensive players? It certainly would not have cost us Carter, Richards or Umberger. It looks like we're just as screwed in the goal scoring department as we were yesterday. Forward lines when healthy (and accoring to Hitch logic):

Gagne Forsberg Knuble
Nedved Handzus Kapanen
Brashear Richards Radivojevic
Umberger Carter Dimitrakos

...in the meantime, Stevenson (who is still with the team) or Savage will be in there until Handzus is back. I'm just not confident that this lineup matches up with Carolina or Ottawa, or even the teams below them like NYR or Buffalo. We do not have a second scoring line. We've got a couple good offensive players scattered throughout, but for the most part, this team is made up of good defensive players who don't score goals (or who used to, but don't anymore, like Kapanen).

We'll make the playoffs, we might even win a round, but this team is not the elite team it needs to be.

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Old
03-09-2006, 06:32 PM
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Overall, I was pleased with the outcome on Thursday. Someone posted ealier that there really isn't a quick fix to this team that could have been able to give the team a supreme boost without giving up too much future or ruining the salary cap. THe team has great ability when healthy and playing well, which, so far, are not necessarily dependable. There was no player out there that would have been attainable to put this team over the top.

I was pleased Clarke didn't do any Adam Oates deals, but I certainly would have liked to get Samsonov, but again, he isn't the most historically healthy individual, and is also a UFA.

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03-09-2006, 06:34 PM
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Having looked at the transactions, I would have liked to get Jeff Friesen and Mika Noronen, both of which were obtained for 2nd rounders. I reckon the teams didn't want to trade within the conference, but Friesen would be an improvement, and Noronen would be good potential for the future and make Esche expendable.

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Old
03-09-2006, 06:41 PM
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To be honest, I'm still not hugely confident. I think a top 6 player would have put this team over the top.

Gagne-Forsberg-Knuble
Nedved-Handzus-Kapanen
Umberger-Carter-Dimitrakos
Savage-Richards-Radivojevic

Pitkanen-Meyer
Johnsson-Gauthier
Hatcher-Desjardins

Niittymaki
Esche

I like the Dimitrakos pick-up a little because he is shifty and creative and can finally give Carter a good wing to play with. I also like that he comes for the PK and I hope this means that Gagne gets some more even strength and PP time instead of being on the PK.

I do like the Gauthier pick up. I think he'll give some nastiness to this defense and I think it's clear that Clarke is bulking up for teams like Ottawa and perhaps even Carolina and the NYR.

I still think that this team has a fighting chance. That second line might have some potential and I think there is a chance for an extremely good 3rd line. Also, our healthy d-corps are close to being best in the conference behind Ottawa's.

For us to do anything in the playoffs though, that first line is going to have to be gigantic. Clarke has put our fortunes on the shoulders of Gagne and Forsberg and God help us if one of them gets injured.

EDIT: Forgot to say that I'm glad Clarke didn't give up any of the young guys. I like Umberger a lot even though I would have dealt him for Doan.

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Old
03-09-2006, 06:44 PM
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"Gagne Forsberg Knuble
Nedved Handzus Kapanen
Brashear Richards Radivojevic
Umberger Carter Dimitrakos"

im liking those lines a lot accually. if brash keeps playing well as he has been lately and if zeus and kaps can regain their scoring ability this will be a dominent lineup. and its only gonna get better. another grat thing about those lines is that only gagne, umberger,radio and brash need to resigned(not sure about dimitrakos) so it will stay mostly the same next year cept Preems might come back. then maybe something like:

gags-foppa-knuble
nedved-richards-carter
umberger-zeus-kapenan
brash-primeau-radio
dimitrakos

for D id probably rather have
hatcher-johnsson
rathje-pitkanen
gauthier-desjardins
meyer

just a sidenote is gauthier UFA at the end of the year? if he is and we lose johnsson to $$$$$ then we could resign him and Meyer could take johnssons place. assuming we resign desjardins.
our top 6 could be:

rathje-pitkanen
hatcher-meyer
gauthier-desjardins
and jones as 7th (hopefully hes a bit better by then)
and picard around aswell.

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Old
03-09-2006, 06:46 PM
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I'm satisfied. My biggest fear was having to watch Umberger in a Pens uniform for the next 10 seasons, and that didn't happen. We improved defensively, and Dimitrakos is a solid replacement for Brashear / Savage come playoff time.

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Old
03-09-2006, 06:55 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk
I'm satisfied. My biggest fear was having to watch Umberger in a Pens uniform for the next 10 seasons, and that didn't happen. We improved defensively, and Dimitrakos is a solid replacement for Brashear / Savage come playoff time.
Will you be satisfied to keep watching this team struggle to score goals? With the exception of Handzus, the lineup for the last 2 games is exactly the way it will be for the rest of the year. I do not expect Dimitrakos to score goals. Look at his career numbers, he's never been an offensive guy. I can't help but be adamant about this: our top priority, goal scoring, was not addressed.

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03-09-2006, 07:05 PM
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i think another defensmen and consistant goaltending are more important that a secondary scorer. we have one of those things so as long as the other comes through well be fine. while i would have liked to have recchi or someone else on the team im glad that clarke didnt give up umberger. if it was for like 2 seconds and a third or someyhing i would have been fine with it.

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Old
03-09-2006, 07:08 PM
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no our top priority was defense imo

Defense wins championships

If we didn't get maimed by injuries on DMEN in the stanley cup playoffs WE wouldve been going to the finals instead of them

so i'm happy we got Gauthier

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03-09-2006, 07:09 PM
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No one is going to score more than 3 GPG in the playoffs. I'm not particularly scared of our offensive production.

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Old
03-09-2006, 07:16 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk
No one is going to score more than 3 GPG in the playoffs. I'm not particularly scared of our offensive production.
I'll hold you to that.

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Old
03-09-2006, 07:18 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantokrator
I was pleased Clarke didn't do any Adam Oates deals, but I certainly would have liked to get Samsonov, but again, he isn't the most historically healthy individual, and is also a UFA.
Our 7 games this season, 2 with the flu I think.

The Moral of the Story? Don't listen to overreacting witch-hunting Boston fans.


That said, Dimitrakos is a big improvement on some of the crappy wingers in our line-up. Scoring would have been amazing though.

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Old
03-09-2006, 07:22 PM
  #13
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The offense is not better and the defense is only marginally better.



Judging by moves made by other teams we are no better than we were before.

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Old
03-09-2006, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuman
Defense wins championships
Worth repeating.

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Old
03-09-2006, 07:27 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514
The offense is not better and the defense is only marginally better.

Judging by moves made by other teams we are no better than we were before.
Thank you GKJ.

Defense wins championships yes, but someone has to score the goals. As GKJ says, the offense is not better than it was before and it was looking really bad before.

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03-09-2006, 07:27 PM
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We aren't a Cup team, that is for sure.

I believe that Umberger, Carter, and Richards were all on a power play unit for a while last night. I was listening to the radio feed so I couldn't see how they played, but I would like to see them play 5 on 5 hockey for a couple of shifts.

Gagne-Forsberg-Knuble
Umberger-Richards-Carter
Dimitrakos-Handzus-Kapanen
Brashear-Nedved-Radivojevic
Extra: Stevenson

Pitkanen-Desjardins
Gauthier-Hatcher
Rathje-Meyer

Extra: Therien, Jones, Johnsson (Injured)

Niittymaki-Esche

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Old
03-09-2006, 07:30 PM
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Not thrilled with it but it is certainly a strong, transitional roster. We have good young players, good older players (that are going to be leaving us), and excellent depth on the blueline.

I'm hoping that Bobby uses this to his advantage, to cut down on salary, and move up in the draft. With Meyer making what he is for three years, and playing as well as he has, Johnsson IMO has become expendable come draft day. Resign Gauthier if he plays like a beast, or let him walk if he doesn't; either way we'll still walk out of this with a solid defense. Just need to start drafting more top end talent!!

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03-09-2006, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rails
We aren't a Cup team, that is for sure.

I believe that Umberger, Carter, and Richards were all on a power play unit for a while last night. I was listening to the radio feed so I couldn't see how they played, but I would like to see them play 5 on 5 hockey for a couple of shifts.

Gagne-Forsberg-Knuble
Umberger-Richards-Carter
Dimitrakos-Handzus-Kapanen
Brashear-Nedved-Radivojevic
Extra: Stevenson

Pitkanen-Desjardins
Gauthier-Hatcher
Rathje-Meyer

Extra: Therien, Jones, Johnsson (Injured)

Niittymaki-Esche

no way nedved would produce on the 4th line. that was his problem in phoenix. he needs to be a top 2 line guy.

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Old
03-09-2006, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rails
We aren't a Cup team, that is for sure.

I believe that Umberger, Carter, and Richards were all on a power play unit for a while last night. I was listening to the radio feed so I couldn't see how they played, but I would like to see them play 5 on 5 hockey for a couple of shifts.

Gagne-Forsberg-Knuble
Umberger-Richards-Carter
Dimitrakos-Handzus-Kapanen
Brashear-Nedved-Radivojevic
Extra: Stevenson

Pitkanen-Desjardins
Gauthier-Hatcher
Rathje-Meyer

Extra: Therien, Jones, Johnsson (Injured)

Niittymaki-Esche
Bad lines and pairings, IMO. Why have Gauthier and Hatcher out at the same time? That is physical overkill. Rathje and Meyer would be soft, etc. I like the physical guy/offensive guy pairings. And Nedved would be ineffective in an 4th line role with players who barely score.

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Old
03-09-2006, 07:34 PM
  #20
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i am extremely pleased. Kept all of our young guns: carter, richards, meyer, ruzicka, picard, etc. and still shored up our defense. I think this team is a lot better when healthy then everyone is giving credit for.

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Old
03-09-2006, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuman
no our top priority was defense imo

Defense wins championships

If we didn't get maimed by injuries on DMEN in the stanley cup playoffs WE wouldve been going to the finals instead of them

so i'm happy we got Gauthier
In the old NHL.

For this team to not add any legit secondary scoring, is like almost giving up on the cup. This team has not been healthy all year and frankly I don't hold up hope that it will be come playoff time. While I like the vast majority of the players on the roster, there are no legitmate threats other then Foppa and Gags.

If Foresberg or Gags are hurt during the playoffs who is going to pick up the slack?

Samsanov, Arnason and Friesen would have all been better then Dimtriakos. All of them could have been had without giving up Richards, Carter or Umberger. Clarke might have had to package Umberger in a deal for Samsanov, but anyone who would rather have Umberger then Samsanov is off thier rocker.

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Old
03-09-2006, 07:38 PM
  #22
Kevin Danko
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I am absolutely pissed. It seems like we didnt adress anything. We need a fast veteran defensemen, we need scoring. This team is not producing a ton of goals and thats what we need.


It seems every team around us has gotten better, New Jersey, New York and Carolina....meanwhile we just added crap.

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Old
03-09-2006, 07:42 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GagsIsDaMan
Samsanov, Arnason and Friesen would have all been better then Dimtriakos. All of them could have been had without giving up Richards, Carter or Umberger. Clarke might have had to package Umberger in a deal for Samsanov, but anyone who would rather have Umberger then Samsanov is off thier rocker.
Is anyone sure Friesen and Samsonov would have fit inder the cap?

Dunno.

Does anyone think any of those three would make the Flyers a Cup team?

I doubt it.

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Old
03-09-2006, 07:45 PM
  #24
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I think, right now, we are capable of putting up a fight against every single team in the East. We wouldn't be favored against CAR, OTT, or NYR, imo, but it would be a very small spread. I think you have to put us at 20% or so to be representing the East in the SCF.

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Old
03-09-2006, 07:51 PM
  #25
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I think that if either Gagne or Forsberg are injured in/during the playoffs, there is no one we could have added that would counteract this. However, if they are both healthy, then the Flyers could win any playoff round. The postseason hinges on this, not on whether we got 2nd or 3rd line scoring.

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