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Old
10-29-2003, 08:19 AM
  #1
bgbdbrtzz2003
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Check this out...

sure it's early in the season, but check out the plus/minus leaders in the NHL...

1. Marek Malik, 8gp, +11
2. Markus Naslund, 9gp, +9
3. Brendan Morrison, 9gp, +8

How sweet is that, especially for Naslund, a testament for his new found defensive awareness? or just a flukey +/- throughout 9 games?

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Old
10-29-2003, 09:32 AM
  #2
PecaFan
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I'd say it's a testament to the ineptness of the power play, myself.

So they're getting their points at 5 on 5, and getting +'s for them.

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Old
10-29-2003, 09:48 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
I'd say it's a testament to the ineptness of the power play, myself.

So they're getting their points at 5 on 5, and getting +'s for them.
Always looking at the bright side of things eh PecaFan? The lack of scoring on the PP may have something to do with it, but it's not the whole story. I know during the Phoenix game Hughson commented that the top line had only been out on the ice for one goal against thus far all season. That's probably gone up by one or two in the last couple games, but overall I think Naslund's and, to a lesser degree Bertuzzi's defensive games have improved. Hopefully they can keep it up.

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Old
10-29-2003, 11:05 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
I'd say it's a testament to the ineptness of the power play, myself.

So they're getting their points at 5 on 5, and getting +'s for them.
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! You do realize that if they'd had 1 goal on the powerplay or 300 it would not affect their +/- one iota, right?

If you take it as anything it's that they've become far less of a defensive liability - and says NOTHING about their powerplay success.

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Old
10-29-2003, 11:38 AM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Connecticut
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! You do realize that if they'd had 1 goal on the powerplay or 300 it would not affect their +/- one iota, right?
Of course, that's my whole point. In the past, they did a huge chunk of their scoring on the PP. Which doesn't show up on their +/-. This year, so far it's 5 on 5, which is showing up on their record.

I didn't say they suck defensively. In fact, I've argued the opposite. Because they do *so* much scoring on the PP as compared to guys like Naslund, their +/- is unfairly low when compared to guys who simply aren't as deadly on the PP.

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Old
10-29-2003, 11:56 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
Of course, that's my whole point. In the past, they did a huge chunk of their scoring on the PP. Which doesn't show up on their +/-. This year, so far it's 5 on 5, which is showing up on their record.

I didn't say they suck defensively. In fact, I've argued the opposite. Because they do *so* much scoring on the PP as compared to guys like Naslund, their +/- is unfairly low when compared to guys who simply aren't as deadly on the PP.
Ok, fine, but doesn't that sort of assume that if they start scoring more ont he powerplay they'll score less 5 on 5? I don't think the two are related. I think it would be nice to see them regain their form on the powerplay but continue to have a positive +/- reflecting a commitment to their defensive responsibilities at even strength.

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Old
10-29-2003, 12:17 PM
  #7
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There should be 3 sets of +/-, one for 5on5, one for the man advantage, one for shorthanded.

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Old
10-29-2003, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Dirty Chinaman
There should be 3 sets of +/-, one for 5on5, one for the man advantage, one for shorthanded.
+/- is a useless stat anyway, whats the point?

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Old
10-29-2003, 01:00 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La-La-Laprise
+/- is a useless stat anyway, whats the point?
Agreed... Stats are interesting but their overall value is pretty negligible. There are just too many intangibles that come into play that can skew the results.

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Old
10-29-2003, 02:07 PM
  #10
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Something I find even more intriguing, besides Sopel's gaff against Phoenix, Ohlund has been on the ice for exactly 1 even strength goal against.

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Old
10-29-2003, 02:19 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo
Something I find even more intriguing, besides Sopel's gaff against Phoenix, Ohlund has been on the ice for exactly 1 even strength goal against.

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Old
10-29-2003, 04:15 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by incawg
I'll second that

Ohlund rocks!

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Old
10-29-2003, 05:38 PM
  #13
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I think the Jovo cop has only been on the ice 3 times during 5 on 5, good job Eddie

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10-29-2003, 05:42 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo
Something I find even more intriguing, besides Sopel's gaff against Phoenix, Ohlund has been on the ice for exactly 1 even strength goal against.
How about Sopel?

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Old
10-29-2003, 08:18 PM
  #15
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i personally like +/- ... really shows you who stands out 5 on 5 and 4 on 4 etc.

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10-29-2003, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vman
How about Sopel?
2. I kept track. One against St.Louis and one against Phoenix. Not just even strength, but PK and PP too.

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Old
10-29-2003, 08:52 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface
Fluke, he still sucks defensively.

Not suprised with Morrison or Malik, they've played pretty solid thus far.
Actually I would say Malik is the FAR bigger fluke with regard to +/-. There is NO WAY IN HELL you can convince me, or any other semi-intelligent person, that Malik is better defensively than Ohlund/Jovo/Salo. Yet more proof of the uselessness of +/-.

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Old
10-29-2003, 09:22 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBI
Kilam > Rgels

We've got enough jump-in-the-play guys already with Iksvonavoj, Dnulho, Lepos, Olas. Kilam is the only regular homemaker back there. Rgels is also someone who I consider to be more of a two-way guy than a homemaker, so I consider Kilam to be more useful to the team than Rgels. Nella doesn't play enough to count as a true regular.

Say what you want about Kilam (like Shawn Bradley, etc etc), but he at least doesn't get caught skating around like a headless chicken back there. And it's good when we're occasionally blessed with his Kilam Gretzky moves.
whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaa??


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Old
10-29-2003, 10:53 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBI
Kilam > Rgels

We've got enough jump-in-the-play guys already with Iksvonavoj, Dnulho, Lepos, Olas. Kilam is the only regular homemaker back there. Rgels is also someone who I consider to be more of a two-way guy than a homemaker, so I consider Kilam to be more useful to the team than Rgels. Nella doesn't play enough to count as a true regular.

Say what you want about Kilam (like Shawn Bradley, etc etc), but he at least doesn't get caught skating around like a headless chicken back there. And it's good when we're occasionally blessed with his Kilam Gretzky moves.
That's pretty trippy when you're high

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Old
10-30-2003, 12:16 AM
  #20
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I actually think the +-stats are helpful.
Look at Nasland last year, I think he got 104 points, yet I was told he was only a + 5 on the year. To me that says a lot about his defensive play, if he had payed more attention to his defensive game, his + - would have been a lot better.
This year, though most of the games I have only been able to listen to. I have noticed (based on the commentators) that Naslund has been paying quite a bit of attention to his defensive coverage.
This may have taken a little away from his offensive play, but I think if he keeps it up, he will be a more effective player come play-off time.

Don't get me wrong I like it when Naslund lights it up, like the game against the Blue Jackets. But, I believe Naslund is going to get his share of points regardless, of whether or not he tightens up his defensive play.

About Malik, I donít expect him to keep up the pace he is now, but I donít think his + - stats are a fluke either. He is showing us what he is capable of; I just hope he can keep it up.

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Old
10-30-2003, 12:45 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface
Fluke, he still sucks defensively.

Not suprised with Morrison or Malik, they've played pretty solid thus far.
Not so much a fluke, Jovo/Salo Ohlund/Sopel play against the top 2 opposing lines, Malik/Allen/Slegr get the bottom feeders.

That being said, Malik is still a decent defenceman, and was a steal from Carolina.

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10-30-2003, 03:05 AM
  #22
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I assumed Jovo and Malik played together for ES... and apparently, I've heard/seen them on highlights together on the PP too.

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Old
10-30-2003, 06:43 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface
I would use Slegr over Malik anyday, just cuz he's a familiar name and he was there in 1994. But yes Malik is a fluke thats for sure, i am sure he'll run out of gas and will just lug around the blue line like a zombie around mid season.

Till then, i hope he keeps flukin out.
I'm glad you're not the coach. "I would use Slegr over Malik anyday, just cuz he's a familiar name...".?!!!? Should we bring Dana Murzyn out of retirement to appease you then. Give me a break.

There's a reason Slegr is a #6-7 defenseman (and I actually liked the signing, don't get me wrong). Just don't compare him with Malik. "Harry" is an excellent #4-5 d-man on most NHL teams. Who cares if he's not gritty. He gets the job done in the defensive zone. I'm sure Jovo is ecstatic to be paired up with him.

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Old
10-30-2003, 07:17 AM
  #24
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Malik is one of our steadiest defensemen. I would say he's better than a #4/5 guy so far, but he is a #4/5 guy on our team. Actually, by the minutes, he's been the #5 guy for us, I believe (behind Ohlund, Jovo, Salo, & Sopel).

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Old
10-30-2003, 07:36 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBI
Kilam > Rgels

We've got enough jump-in-the-play guys already with Iksvonavoj, Dnulho, Lepos, Olas. Kilam is the only regular homemaker back there. Rgels is also someone who I consider to be more of a two-way guy than a homemaker, so I consider Kilam to be more useful to the team than Rgels. Nella doesn't play enough to count as a true regular.

Say what you want about Kilam (like Shawn Bradley, etc etc), but he at least doesn't get caught skating around like a headless chicken back there. And it's good when we're occasionally blessed with his Kilam Gretzky moves.
Whatcha FBI?

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