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4 Years Deal for Bertuzzi

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10-26-2003, 09:16 PM
  #26
choppystride
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mecca13
$6.9 million a season is fair. I'm actually surprised it wasn't more like 8 considering Iginla is getting 7.5.
If you do the math, the extension is 8 mil a year:

Total_salary - 2003_salary = 27.8 - 3.7 = 24.1 mil

24.1 / 3 years = 8.03 mil / yr

So essentially the Nucks are giving him an 8 mil/yr extension.

That's a pretty sweet deal for Bert considering all the guaranteed money up front. And we haven't even talked about the performance bonuses yet.

However, I do really think that Bert is one of the few in the league who deserves this type of money.

So congrats to him and the Nucks!

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10-26-2003, 09:17 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Red
That's weird. I was sure they'd make this year be worth the most $$$ so as to reduce the number under the new CBA to keep team payroll in check. Hmmmmmm.

Considering though that the signing bonus is included in that $28 million, looks like a good deal.

it is...Basically we're paying him 4.3 + 3M signing bonus...so 7.3 this year...

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10-26-2003, 09:20 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choppystride
If you do the math, the extension is 8 mil a year:

Total_salary - 2003_salary = 27.8 - 3.7 = 24.1 mil

24.1 / 3 years = 8.03 mil / yr
Actually his deal this year was 3.7 base, but with bonuses (that he'll probably hit) it was to go up to 5.5.

So that makes it 27.8 - 5.5 = 22.3 which is 7.4/year

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10-26-2003, 09:26 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incawg
Actually his deal this year was 3.7 base, but with bonuses (that he'll probably hit) it was to go up to 5.5.

So that makes it 27.8 - 5.5 = 22.3 which is 7.4/year
The problem w/ your argument is that the 27.8 is also just the base salary (by that I mean wages + the guranteed signing bonus). So when you do the subtraction, it's only fair to use the base numbers.

In his new contract, there are probably performance based bonus clauses that account for the extra 1.8 mil (5.5 - 3.7) that he may make this year.

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10-26-2003, 09:30 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBI
Sounds pricier than I would have thought.
not to me, when I look at the market in the nhl.....salaries are out of control, especially when you have guys like Lapointe (5 mil/per season), and Holik (9mil/per season) making the kind of money they are.

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10-26-2003, 11:05 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVP
i wish someone will ask Nonis about the Berard situation too.
Bob Mac may be the guy

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Old
10-27-2003, 12:15 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choppystride
The problem w/ your argument is that the 27.8 is also just the base salary (by that I mean wages + the guranteed signing bonus). So when you do the subtraction, it's only fair to use the base numbers.

In his new contract, there are probably performance based bonus clauses that account for the extra 1.8 mil (5.5 - 3.7) that he may make this year.
Well if you're going to make that argument then the entire discussion is moot. We can only go by the numbers we have, and those numbers, factoring out the first year, reflect 7.4 mil/year. Besides, Pat Morris didn't say anything about bonuses when he mentioned the deal and if there were significant ones he certainly would have. Personally I think it's more sensible just to think of it as 6.95/year for 4 years anyway.

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10-27-2003, 07:03 AM
  #33
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Here's a list of player earning more than Bertuzzi who got their current contracts when they were Restricted Free Agents.

Forsberg, Peter COLORADO AVALANCHE C $11,000,000.00
Jagr, Jaromir WASHINGTON CAPITALS R $11,000,000.00
Bure, Pavel NEW YORK RANGERS R $10,000,000.00
Lidstrom, Nicklas DETROIT RED WINGS D $10,000,000.00
Pronger, Chris ST. LOUIS BLUES D $9,500,000.00
Modano, Michael DALLAS STARS C $9,000,000.00
Sundin, Mats TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS C $9,000,000.00
Yashin, Alexei NEW YORK ISLANDERS C $8,400,000.00
Allison, Jason LOS ANGELES KINGS C $8,000,000.00
Iginla, Jarome CALGARY FLAMES R $7,500,000.00
Palffy, Zigmund LOS ANGELES KINGS R $7,000,000.00

However, it's not like Bertuzzi took less money to stay in Vancouver, which a lot of people are painting it as. The way the signing bonus is distributed, Bertuzzi makes $6.8 million this season, then $7.1 million, then $6.9 million in the final two years. This would be equivalent, financially, to letting him play out the year at $3.7 million and then singing him to a three year, $25.7 million deal deal. (IE, $8 million+ per year).

The whole point of signing him now instead of summer 2004 was so we could spread that amount over four years instead of three and give us a stronger position in the new CBA.

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Old
10-27-2003, 07:11 AM
  #34
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I hope everybody understands that this also means the nucks won't be able to spend as much on the canucks supporting staff.

We're going to be playing a couple rookies next season (if there is a next season).

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10-27-2003, 07:13 AM
  #35
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BES' numbers are correct. The numbers are, INCLUDING BONUSES:

Year 1 - $4.3 million + $2.5 million signing bonus
Year 2 - $6.6 million + $.5 million signing bonus
Year 3 - $6.9 million
Year 4 - $6.9 million

The entire deal averages to $6.9 million per year. Not $8 million.

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10-27-2003, 07:21 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impossibles
I hope everybody understands that this also means the nucks won't be able to spend as much on the canucks supporting staff.

We're going to be playing a couple rookies next season (if there is a next season).
...and might I add: About fsckin' time! There are several kids on the farm who could step into a bottom-6 role next season (Kesler, Reid, Smith, Bouck). Hell, next season? They could probably play here now.

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Old
10-27-2003, 07:33 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impossibles
I hope everybody understands that this also means the nucks won't be able to spend as much on the canucks supporting staff.

We're going to be playing a couple rookies next season (if there is a next season).
not necessarily true...

for the last few seasons the Canucks have been cutting payroll... they were down to their bottom line of under $29 mill at one point, and have since been building it back up (Jovo, Linden, Arvedson, May, Hedberg, and now Bertuzzi)... in the process, they've not only added new players, and new salaries, but managed to keep their team together as well...

when you add that to the fact that this team made tons of money last year, and since have added new streams of revenues to increase their earnings more - and still managing to likely sell out every single game this year, I think saying that we've hit our ceiling isn't necessarily true - since the management here has been able to increase the ceiling of the team over the past couple years (and still are!).

the main thing right now is the CBA... if there is a cap, then we will have to adjust to that, but we're still in better shape than some of the other big market teams.

but outside a cap, there is no reason to think that the team can't continue to build their payroll... this is now a team that can maintain a $50 mill payroll and still profit, and every trend recently has pointed to this team continuing to build, not switching over to rookies past their core.

Having said that, we're not in a bad situation if we need to bring in rookies... as BES mentioned above, we do have a few players that can fill that role, but also note that players like Reid, Kesler, etc, aren't exactly making less money than the Chubarovs, Cookes, Sedins, etc, either... we still have our 5man core, and the team has done a great job keeping them together... we still have our support (Sedins, Cooke, Chubby, Sopel, Salo, etc), and the team has done a great job building on that!!

I don't see any reason to expect the worst now, when everything seems to be positive for us financially and getting better with each passing season.

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10-27-2003, 07:42 AM
  #38
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^^
All very true. I stand corrected.

I just wonder what Morrison is going to get next year, and if this rules out the possibility of Nazzy re-signing.

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10-27-2003, 07:51 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impossibles
^^
All very true. I stand corrected.

I just wonder what Morrison is going to get next year, and if this rules out the possibility of Nazzy re-signing.
actually I'm more worried about re-signing Ohlund than Morrison... both should get raises - and both have earned it - but Ohlund looks to be on the verge of a breakout season... as Canuck fans many of us see him already as our #1 man (me included), but around the league his worth is likely a lot less... this season he looks to be closing that gap, which means his salary demands are likely going to be going up.

It's hard to narrow down a worth for this guy... but IMO he's worth what this team gave Jovo... unfortunately for Ohlund his game isn't flashy like Jovo's, and usually that means his earning potential will be less.

But I can see both these guys re-signing for $3-5 mill a piece (well hopefully closer to $3mill)!

as far as Nazzy... I think it will all depend on the lockout... if there is a lockout for a year, and possibly 2 as feared by many hockey experts, Naslund is gone... but if we have hockey next year, he'll be back for sure (he has a contract for next year too)... after that it's anyone's guess... but for the team this year and next is the most important for us - their time is clearly now!

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Old
10-27-2003, 07:55 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
However, it's not like Bertuzzi took less money to stay in Vancouver, which a lot of people are painting it as. The way the signing bonus is distributed, Bertuzzi makes $6.8 million this season, then $7.1 million, then $6.9 million in the final two years. This would be equivalent, financially, to letting him play out the year at $3.7 million and then singing him to a three year, $25.7 million deal deal. (IE, $8 million+ per year).
Once again, Bertuzzi was going to make around $5.5 million this year when you factor in bonuses. The increase is thus not nearly as significant. Apparently the figures we've seen for his new deal include bonuses so it's actually like signing him to a three year, 22.3 million dollar deal. That's 7.4 per year. Personally I think it makes more sense to look at it as a 4 year 6.95/year deal but if you want to take the alternative approach you've got to factor in what he would actually have been paid this year.

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10-27-2003, 08:26 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incawg
Once again, Bertuzzi was going to make around $5.5 million this year when you factor in bonuses. The increase is thus not nearly as significant. Apparently the figures we've seen for his new deal include bonuses so it's actually like signing him to a three year, 22.3 million dollar deal. That's 7.4 per year. Personally I think it makes more sense to look at it as a 4 year 6.95/year deal but if you want to take the alternative approach you've got to factor in what he would actually have been paid this year.
The so-called bonuses are just signing bonuses. They are not incentives but simply a mechanism to front load the deal. The extra 1.8 mil (5.5 - 3.7 = 1.8) that Bert may earn this season as bonuses are incentive based. As good a player as Bert is, he hasn't officially earned it yet and thus the money is not guaranteed.

If you take a look at following article, you will see that there are additional incentives as confirmed by Pat Morris:

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/spor...5-A4E1BF3FCAF8

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10-27-2003, 08:44 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choppystride
The so-called bonuses are just signing bonuses. They are not incentives but simply a mechanism to front load the deal. The extra 1.8 mil (5.5 - 3.7 = 1.8) that Bert may earn this season as bonuses are incentive based. As good a player as Bert is, he hasn't officially earned it yet and thus the money is not guaranteed.

If you take a look at following article, you will see that there are additional incentives as confirmed by Pat Morris:

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/spor...5-A4E1BF3FCAF8
No, it's not inevitable that he would have hit his bonuses this year, but it was pretty likely the way his contract was structured that he would have earned significantly more than 3.7.

"He also said there are no scoring bonuses in the last two years." So the actual figure will be somewhere between what we were saying.

The above is a moot point anyway. As i've been saying all along, it doesn't make sense to look at this as X amount of dollars over three years. If bertuzzi had waited until the offseason he would have demanded more money. It's a four year deal at 6.95 base salary per year.

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10-27-2003, 09:08 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incawg
"He also said there are no scoring bonuses in the last two years." So the actual figure will be somewhere between what we were saying.
This does not rule out bonuses dealing with playoff advancement and major trophy nominations/wins.

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10-27-2003, 09:15 AM
  #44
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it don't think it really matters how you break up the deal... whether it's looking at it from a 3 yr perspective, or 4 years, with or without bonuses...

this in the end, was a good deal for the Canucks... the team didn't want to wait till the offseason to do it, and neither did Bertuzzi... the guy wants to stay here...

if we look at similar players/contracts in similar markets, this deal makes sense... $7mill a year to keep one of the top 5 point getters in the league, and the current dominant power foward, isn't a bad deal for this franchise... we can certainly afford it, and keeping him happy, and keeping the fans happy is worth the price that was paid.

When you also consider what players got on the UFA market this season (when teams were already worried about a possible cap) it still falls on line... Demitra got a similar amount through arbitration... guys like Fedorov were able to get more, and Selanne scored $5.8 mill! albiet these are UFAs, the fact that arbitration gave Demitra what the Canucks negotiated with Bertuzzi should be enough to convince people it was a good deal...

bottom line he's a Canuck for a while - just like Jovo, just like when Naslund signed, and hopefully just like when Morrison and Ohlund do sign.

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10-27-2003, 09:17 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
This does not rule out bonuses dealing with playoff advancement and major trophy nominations/wins.
Still doesn't change the fact that it's a moot point

:moon: (gotta use that smiley every time I get the chance )

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10-27-2003, 09:21 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incawg
No, it's not inevitable that he would have hit his bonuses this year, but it was pretty likely the way his contract was structured that he would have earned significantly more than 3.7.
All you're doing is speculating how easy it is for him to hit his bonues this year (and you're speculating that it's easy). And really, that's all anyone can do. Therefore, the only way that makes sense is to structure it as an incentive for him to try to hit just as it was before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by incawg
"He also said there are no scoring bonuses in the last two years." So the actual figure will be somewhere between what we were saying..
Hmmm...so there will be scoring bonuses this year and next. And he didn't say there won't be any bonues based on minutes, +/-, team performance, etcetera, etcetera..

Quote:
Originally Posted by incawg
The above is a moot point anyway. As i've been saying all along, it doesn't make sense to look at this as X amount of dollars over three years. If bertuzzi had waited until the offseason he would have demanded more money. It's a four year deal at 6.95 base salary per year.
No, I think the only way to make sense of this deal is to factor out the original 3.7 mil base salary this year and look at it as a 3 year package. The terms of this deal was obviously skewed by the possibility of a salary cap or else no sane businessman (McCaw in this case) would rip apart a perfectly valid contract so that he would have to pay more money at an earlier date.

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10-27-2003, 11:21 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
it don't think it really matters how you break up the deal... whether it's looking at it from a 3 yr perspective, or 4 years, with or without bonuses...

That i cannot agree with, i mean it might be irrelevent to you in your prespective which i could understand but those facts are by no mean unimportant, i mean those are the facts that Pat Morris, Nonis, Burke and McCaw had work countless hours to figure out.

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10-27-2003, 11:35 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by MVP
That i cannot agree with, i mean it might be irrelevent to you in your prespective which i could understand but those facts are by no mean unimportant, i mean those are the facts that Pat Morris, Nonis, Burke and McCaw had work countless hours to figure out.
I didn't mean they were unimportant altogether... I mean that looking at how you break up the deal doesn't make a difference as to this being a good or bad deal.

If you want to look at it as a 4 yr deal, it's a good deal...if you want to look at it as a 3yr deal with a change this year, it's still a good deal.

obviously the details are important to both the player and the team, but as far as whether this is a good or bad deal, I think that the details are irrelevant... what matters is that the team is paying $27.8 mill over 4 years to keep the best powerforward in the game in this city... and that IMO makes it a good deal.

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10-27-2003, 11:39 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVP
That i cannot agree with, i mean it might be irrelevent to you in your prespective which i could understand but those facts are by no mean unimportant, i mean those are the facts that Pat Morris, Nonis, Burke and McCaw had work countless hours to figure out.
Sup Bob :moon:

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10-27-2003, 12:05 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
actually I'm more worried about re-signing Ohlund than Morrison... both should get raises - and both have earned it - but Ohlund looks to be on the verge of a breakout season... as Canuck fans many of us see him already as our #1 man (me included), but around the league his worth is likely a lot less... this season he looks to be closing that gap, which means his salary demands are likely going to be going up.

It's hard to narrow down a worth for this guy... but IMO he's worth what this team gave Jovo... unfortunately for Ohlund his game isn't flashy like Jovo's, and usually that means his earning potential will be less.

But I can see both these guys re-signing for $3-5 mill a piece (well hopefully closer to $3mill)!
I don't think Ohlund will get more than 3 mill, probably more like whatever he is making now (I'm assuming its like $2.5M?). It appears that the days of defensive defensemen making big $$$ is over. Only the defenseman who dominate games make a lot of cash these days (Pronger, Hatcher and the like). I just see guys like Yushkevich not getting signed and how much Klee signed for, and see a trend going down there.

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