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Old
03-15-2006, 03:06 AM
  #1
Dgrohl8
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I Have had Enough

I have been posting on here for about a year and I am finally done with all of the negatives. I am a 20 year old kid from jersey an I have lived and died by this team for the last 10 years. I have a Ranger tat on my left arm and i love these guys. They are hard working and tough, ( Think of the teams we have had ) and all these people saying "ahhh Jagr hid and didn't want to give an autograph (after a lose) that is complete BS! I met Lundy, Jed, and PRUCHA ( A guy who couldn't speak are language) before the season started at a PS game in Long Island, and they were the nicest guys i have ever met.
I understand the whole let down thing but we play hard and out play everyone. So every negative person can just jump on another band wagon pecause true ranger fans know what this team is about and know what we are about.

My dad has had season tickets for 15 years and I know what we are about. I love this team so just relax it's our best team in years and we make hockey.

I haven't been posting much b/c my younger sister died and i am sorry I haven't been here to base my opinion but i have obligations so lets be Rangers. I have beens for these hard times.


Last edited by Dgrohl8: 03-15-2006 at 03:20 AM.
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Old
03-15-2006, 08:22 AM
  #2
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Very sorry to hear about your sister.

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Old
03-15-2006, 08:38 AM
  #3
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Losing your sister at such a young age is awefull.

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Old
03-15-2006, 09:44 AM
  #4
DarthSather99
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Sorry to hear about your younger sister. Just a little advice from someone twice your age. You will meet plenty of negative people throughout your life. They will frustrate and aggravate you to no end. The best way to handle them is to ignore them. Don't fight them, they will just further inflame you. Just know that they become their worst enemy and there is a consiquence for their negativity. It may not be said in words but in actions.

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Old
03-15-2006, 09:50 AM
  #5
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Sorry for your loss buddy...

Don't take it to hear, people post stuff here just to stir up stuff. The Rangers will rebound starting Thursday night at the Garden

RangerJoe

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Old
03-15-2006, 10:52 AM
  #6
Shadowtron
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First and foremost, sorry for the loss. It’s always tough losing someone, but it seems doubly so when it’s someone so young.

I think it’s really unfair to criticize people for basically not thinking the same way you do. It’s nice for you to try to rally the troops, but it’s woefully ignorant when a person chooses to dismiss another group of people simply because they’re on a different page. We’re not all similar. We’re joined together in a common interest, but that’s really where it ends. We want the same things from our team more or less, but how we choose to deal with the ups and downs is a matter of perspective. I don’t understand the mentality of the majority here that somehow being in a constant state of blind worship is the only true way to show fan love. It doesn’t bother me that people feel this way, but it irks the hell out of me when it is presumed that EVERYONE should feel this way. And when this philosophy is met with resistance, we’re given the wise advice to ignore non-like-minded individuals because they’ll be given a convenient, villainous label and cast out of Valhalla forever. Or we’re treated to posts about how someone’s “Fed-up…”, “Sick of…”, “Had enough of…”, or “Had it up to here with…”. And I think that’s ridiculous.

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Old
03-15-2006, 10:59 AM
  #7
BobMarleyNYR
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I'm also 20, no stranger to tragedy. Hang in there, sounds like you are. You're an NYR fan, which makes you a tough son-of-a-***** right off the bat. I hope you find some comfort in the team's success.

We're only human... people tend to get spoiled, and that's what's happening... every now and then I think about making a negative post, but then I look at the picture. No one expected a winning record, let alone a playoff birth. You're right, it's annoying and depressing, but I guess we could just accept peoples' feelings. In a lot of ways, these boards are a big, perpetual group counseling session (not referring to your loss, more to others, including myself).

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Old
03-15-2006, 11:26 AM
  #8
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Moderation.

That's all I can say.

Life is not about extremes.

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Old
03-15-2006, 11:43 AM
  #9
Anthony Mauro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowtron
First and foremost, sorry for the loss. It’s always tough losing someone, but it seems doubly so when it’s someone so young.

I think it’s really unfair to criticize people for basically not thinking the same way you do. It’s nice for you to try to rally the troops, but it’s woefully ignorant when a person chooses to dismiss another group of people simply because they’re on a different page. We’re not all similar. We’re joined together in a common interest, but that’s really where it ends. We want the same things from our team more or less, but how we choose to deal with the ups and downs is a matter of perspective. I don’t understand the mentality of the majority here that somehow being in a constant state of blind worship is the only true way to show fan love. It doesn’t bother me that people feel this way, but it irks the hell out of me when it is presumed that EVERYONE should feel this way. And when this philosophy is met with resistance, we’re given the wise advice to ignore non-like-minded individuals because they’ll be given a convenient, villainous label and cast out of Valhalla forever. Or we’re treated to posts about how someone’s “Fed-up…”, “Sick of…”, “Had enough of…”, or “Had it up to here with…”. And I think that’s ridiculous.
Now take the other side of the spectrum. What about tantrums like we just had? The infamous, "It is officially time to panic" thread. People were badmouthing this team just because its in a rut for a few games. Its alright if that's what has happened the whole year. But we're sitting atop the Division and last I checked, sorry if im off, third in the conference. Give the players some RESPECT. Instead of blaming them and making them scapegoats, sincerely hope for them to get out of their slump.

Just me, but I think its ridiculous you even spend your time separating people into two different groups. Sure, some people are more irrational than others but for the most part, people show to be objective and level-headed. I'm not sure, for instance, but I dont think people see Shadowtron, remember some of his drivel being negative(just an example), and thinking they must respond in a way that will put down his POV and uphold the "sunshine crowd". This is getting just way too complicated.

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Old
03-15-2006, 01:43 PM
  #10
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DGrohl--I would just like to reiterate that it's terrible to lose a sister at such a young age but things need to be kept in perspective. If anything these 7 + years we've gone through have their positive side. And anybody that can sit through all that and still have some enthusiasm for this team no matter how or how you don't like their perspective has a viewpoint to me worthy of some respect. I would not like everyone here to agree with me all the time anyway. I like it in fact (at least some of the time) when something they say makes me change my mind. There is no dogma here to believe in. Seeing is believing and what each person sees is always just a little bit different from what anyone else sees. Anyway keep on posting.


Last edited by eco's bones: 03-15-2006 at 01:44 PM. Reason: add a few words.
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Old
03-15-2006, 02:52 PM
  #11
Shadowtron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balej's Dance
Now take the other side of the spectrum. What about tantrums like we just had? The infamous, "It is officially time to panic" thread. People were badmouthing this team just because its in a rut for a few games. Its alright if that's what has happened the whole year. But we're sitting atop the Division and last I checked, sorry if im off, third in the conference. Give the players some RESPECT. Instead of blaming them and making them scapegoats, sincerely hope for them to get out of their slump.

Just me, but I think its ridiculous you even spend your time separating people into two different groups. Sure, some people are more irrational than others but for the most part, people show to be objective and level-headed. I'm not sure, for instance, but I dont think people see Shadowtron, remember some of his drivel being negative(just an example), and thinking they must respond in a way that will put down his POV and uphold the "sunshine crowd". This is getting just way too complicated.

"Now take the other side of the spectrum. What about tantrums like we just had? The infamous, "It is officially time to panic" thread."

I don't care about the tantrums or the cheerleading. I'm just trying to end the bickering. Far too much fighting takes place over what is essentially a lack of respect for one another.

"People were badmouthing this team just because its in a rut for a few games. Its alright if that's what has happened the whole year."

Again, it's only alright if someone deems it to be. At 6 games, it's a whining tantrum...but what does it become at 15 games when even the widest smile at adversity starts to falter.

"Give the players some RESPECT. Instead of blaming them and making them scapegoats, sincerely hope for them to get out of their slump."

And if that works for you go with it. But why demand it of others?

"Just me, but I think its ridiculous you even spend your time separating people into two different groups."

When did I do that? In my post? My point was that people need to STOP doing that. So I've either fallen flat on my face and was unclear, or you mistook the point. Knowing me, it was probably the former

"Sure, some people are more irrational than others but for the most part, people show to be objective and level-headed. I'm not sure, for instance, but I dont think people see Shadowtron, remember some of his drivel being negative(just an example), and thinking they must respond in a way that will put down his POV and uphold the "sunshine crowd". This is getting just way too complicated."

I think certain posters here do have a stigma attached to their names. But I'm not really talking about that. I'm talking about the little bickering and the labels thrown at guys like True Blue or BigE or myself even, simply for being critical. And usually the arguments stem not from someone genuinely interested in presenting "the other side of the spectrum" but from them being appalled that some actually had the gall to criticize the team.

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Old
03-15-2006, 03:04 PM
  #12
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Sorry about your sister..

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Old
03-15-2006, 03:19 PM
  #13
dedalus
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There's a rather simple rule of thumb that should take care of this: post about the team not about the posters. When the conversation drifts from the New York Rangers to tirades that discuss what is and what is not a "true fan," urinating contests start.

But since Dgrohl8 has started a thread about fans, I will comment on those threads:

I cannot recall a single thread with a sentiment the reverse of the thrust of this one. In other words, while have been many threads decrying "negativity," I honestly can't recall a single one from the traditional critics of the team saying "I have had enough ... of the optimism on these boards." (If people can point me to such a thread starter, please link it.)

Frankly the most critical of us are also seem to be the most tolerant of opinions not our own. No doubt this will offend some of you, but I'd offer that the proof is on the boards.

But personally I'd rather discuss the losing streak than posters' reactions to it, and the board would certainly be more peaceful if we DID limit our discussion to the sport and the team.

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Old
03-15-2006, 03:20 PM
  #14
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Sorry to hear...

about your sister. That's awful. Any negatism is mostly a reaction of the last few games. I think adjustments have to be made, but this team will do fine. I just ordered my playoff tickets (OK, not mine, but they're my friend's), so I'm putting my money where my mouth is (for the record, I ordered tickets from 1998-2003 also, so maybe I'm the kiss of death).

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Old
03-15-2006, 03:28 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dgrohl8
I met Lundy, Jed, and PRUCHA ( A guy who couldn't speak are language) before the season started



Sorry too hear about your sister.

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Old
03-15-2006, 03:59 PM
  #16
DarthSather99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowtron
First and foremost, sorry for the loss. It’s always tough losing someone, but it seems doubly so when it’s someone so young.

I think it’s really unfair to criticize people for basically not thinking the same way you do. It’s nice for you to try to rally the troops, but it’s woefully ignorant when a person chooses to dismiss another group of people simply because they’re on a different page. We’re not all similar. We’re joined together in a common interest, but that’s really where it ends. We want the same things from our team more or less, but how we choose to deal with the ups and downs is a matter of perspective. I don’t understand the mentality of the majority here that somehow being in a constant state of blind worship is the only true way to show fan love. It doesn’t bother me that people feel this way, but it irks the hell out of me when it is presumed that EVERYONE should feel this way. And when this philosophy is met with resistance, we’re given the wise advice to ignore non-like-minded individuals because they’ll be given a convenient, villainous label and cast out of Valhalla forever. Or we’re treated to posts about how someone’s “Fed-up…”, “Sick of…”, “Had enough of…”, or “Had it up to here with…”. And I think that’s ridiculous.
I don't agree that being positive is "blind worship". It's knowing that there is alot that has gone right and even in this losing streak the overall positives outweight the negatives. It's known that there are problems and they are not being ignoring. The problems will be worked on and that's all you can ask. Most of what we say in here has no effect on the Rangers. Listening to people in here complain, badger, whine constantly gets annoying. It always seems to be the same things. It's not like we are being enlightened with some new perspective.

Isolate anyone in a room and tell them all that is wrong with them and you will eventually be met with contempt and hostility. No situation is ever perfect but why always look at the negative.

I don't have a problem with people being critical. It's just that some people here only have negative things to say. Heck, when the Rangers were flying high beating top teams there were still grumblings.

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Old
03-15-2006, 05:13 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by dedalus
Frankly the most critical of us are also seem to be the most tolerant of opinions not our own. No doubt this will offend some of you, but I'd offer that the proof is on the boards.
This is exactly whats wrong. Right there, it comes off like the people included in "us" are a select group who hold weekly meetings over brunch about being critical. Why does there have to be an "us"? Each person has his/her own opinion, whether its positive, negative, or neutral. I just don't understand why posters have to be linked to being critical, and not just people who present objective and reasonable arguments. It comes off as, no, us, we the critical ones...

There's definate problems when you distinguish and make it sides, groups, or us versus them. Its not about the Rangers anymore, its about arguing with those that hold the opposite opinion.

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Old
03-15-2006, 05:18 PM
  #18
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Am I missing brunch?

man does that sound good right about now.

dedalus isn't saying there's a collective us other than we on this board is considered to be us, and further, there are people more critical than others, so that's who the most critical of us (being people on the board) are. I don't think he says anything to the affect that people don't have their own opinions, no are the criticisms uniform.

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Old
03-15-2006, 05:34 PM
  #19
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Sorry about your sister.

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Old
03-15-2006, 06:13 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dgrohl8
I have been posting on here for about a year and I am finally done with all of the negatives. I am a 20 year old kid from jersey an I have lived and died by this team for the last 10 years. I have a Ranger tat on my left arm and i love these guys. They are hard working and tough, ( Think of the teams we have had ) and all these people saying "ahhh Jagr hid and didn't want to give an autograph (after a lose) that is complete BS! I met Lundy, Jed, and PRUCHA ( A guy who couldn't speak are language) before the season started at a PS game in Long Island, and they were the nicest guys i have ever met.
I understand the whole let down thing but we play hard and out play everyone. So every negative person can just jump on another band wagon pecause true ranger fans know what this team is about and know what we are about.

My dad has had season tickets for 15 years and I know what we are about. I love this team so just relax it's our best team in years and we make hockey.

I haven't been posting much b/c my younger sister died and i am sorry I haven't been here to base my opinion but i have obligations so lets be Rangers. I have beens for these hard times.
sorry about your sister...

just wanted to say i completely agree, its just that people (in general) are just voicing their frustration and discontent. No one likes losing, especially after the Rangers have been winning so much. All I can say is that its better they get over the hump now, rather then fight it later on, say in the playoffs.

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Old
03-15-2006, 06:19 PM
  #21
dedalus
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Originally Posted by Balej's Dance
This is exactly whats wrong. Right there, it comes off like the people included in "us" are a select group who hold weekly meetings over brunch about being critical ... There's definate problems when you distinguish and make it sides, groups, or us versus them.
I'm sorry you misunderstand. "Us" in that sentence clearly refers to "us" as everyone on this board.

At the same time I hope you won't deny that we (ALL of us) can be grouped by our similar outlooks on the team. That's neither good nor bad; it's simply a fact. The problem is when others of us (meaning ALL of us) choose to make a value statement based on a position. (e.g. "Those who are critical are not TRUE fans.")

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balej's Dance
Its not about the Rangers anymore, its about arguing with those that hold the opposite opinion.
Oh I agree. I opened my post with that sentiment.

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Old
03-15-2006, 06:54 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus
I cannot recall a single thread with a sentiment the reverse of the thrust of this one. In other words, while have been many threads decrying "negativity," I honestly can't recall a single one from the traditional critics of the team saying "I have had enough ... of the optimism on these boards."
Perhaps not a whole thread dedicated to the subject, but there has certainly been enough posters called pro-sather, satherites, the sunshine brigade, etc. at the first sign of any optimism, especially by some of the more "tolerant" posters.

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Old
03-15-2006, 07:39 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by McRanger
Perhaps not a whole thread dedicated to the subject, but there has certainly been enough posters called pro-sather, satherites, the sunshine brigade, etc. at the first sign of any optimism, especially by some of the more "tolerant" posters.
First of all, condolences to DGrohl8 regarding his sister.
Second of all, to be fair, comments like "pro-sather, satherites, the sunshine brigade, etc" started to crop up after the cynics of this board started to get daily rants thrown their way, to the tune of "how dare you not see what a great job so and so is doing and how dare you question". Off course that is not literally word for word, but you get the drift. It actually got so utterly ridiculous that someone actually had the hutzpah to accuse those people (myself included) of being so negative that we were "hating on Ramsey". That last bid is word for word. Even though it was utter BS, but that is the degree to which people started to make things up.
In reality, there really are two camps of people. No one wants it that way, but that is the way it is. The are the more cynical and the more optimistic. Dedalus is right when he states that, for the most part, the more cynical posters are also the more tolerant ones. Sure "we" (the cynics) can be as argumentative as any, but not once does anyone resort to petty name calling or snide remarks. Calling people the "sunshine brigade" is about as serious as it ever got. However, if you were to look through all the posts terms like "not a real fan", "can't you get this through your skull", & most other flame-worthy choice of words are most often spoken by the optimists.
And, let's be honest, I originated the term "Satherite", "Sather's army" "Sather Youth" & and used "sunshine brigade" quite often. So if there is to be any blame for that, it is mine & mine alone. However, that was only after having to stave off the multitudes of those optimists (the pc term), for blasting me for not seeing the light. Not to mention that there are those that feel the need to pat themselves on the back every time something goes right, but refuse to look at the whole body of work.
The bottom line is that, for the most part, our little community here is just like any other. It is certainly not a utopia and we disagree on a good many issues. But, for the most part, the people that are here are good people (except that Davisian character....he's a miscreant) who enjoy the "company" and the ability to talk about our beloved team. We were here on 9/11. We announced births and other joys and, unfortunately, some tragedies. But, in the end, if we really did not like it here, we would not be here. But we will not always agree.
I have met enough people here and from other boards (Joe from the Isles board comes to mind). We've had beers and laughs together. This board is good stuff. But people are people. There will always be those that are optimistic and those that are cynical. The only thing left is can you have a civil debate and backup your points. All else is subjective.

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Old
03-15-2006, 08:06 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
First of all, condolences to DGrohl8 regarding his sister.
Second of all, to be fair, comments like "pro-sather, satherites, the sunshine brigade, etc" started to crop up after the cynics of this board started to get daily rants thrown their way, to the tune of "how dare you not see what a great job so and so is doing and how dare you question". Off course that is not literally word for word, but you get the drift. It actually got so utterly ridiculous that someone actually had the hutzpah to accuse those people (myself included) of being so negative that we were "hating on Ramsey". That last bid is word for word. Even though it was utter BS, but that is the degree to which people started to make things up.
In reality, there really are two camps of people. No one wants it that way, but that is the way it is. The are the more cynical and the more optimistic. Dedalus is right when he states that, for the most part, the more cynical posters are also the more tolerant ones. Sure "we" (the cynics) can be as argumentative as any, but not once does anyone resort to petty name calling or snide remarks. Calling people the "sunshine brigade" is about as serious as it ever got. However, if you were to look through all the posts terms like "not a real fan", "can't you get this through your skull", & most other flame-worthy choice of words are most often spoken by the optimists.
And, let's be honest, I originated the term "Satherite", "Sather's army" "Sather Youth" & and used "sunshine brigade" quite often. So if there is to be any blame for that, it is mine & mine alone. However, that was only after having to stave off the multitudes of those optimists (the pc term), for blasting me for not seeing the light. Not to mention that there are those that feel the need to pat themselves on the back every time something goes right, but refuse to look at the whole body of work.
The bottom line is that, for the most part, our little community here is just like any other. It is certainly not a utopia and we disagree on a good many issues. But, for the most part, the people that are here are good people (except that Davisian character....he's a miscreant) who enjoy the "company" and the ability to talk about our beloved team. We were here on 9/11. We announced births and other joys and, unfortunately, some tragedies. But, in the end, if we really did not like it here, we would not be here. But we will not always agree.
I have met enough people here and from other boards (Joe from the Isles board comes to mind). We've had beers and laughs together. This board is good stuff. But people are people. There will always be those that are optimistic and those that are cynical. The only thing left is can you have a civil debate and backup your points. All else is subjective.
I seriously hope this post isnt directed soley at me.

I was just pointing out the other side of the argument. People may not rant, rave, pout etc about optimisim like they do about negativity, but there are still people who get irritated by it. I've myself have been lumped into the pro-sather group in the past (even after expressing disdain for the man and his time here) simply because I had the nerve to point out opinions that dont fall along the lines of blaming Sather for everything.

I've been here from the beginning (under a few different names, thanks to my abiity to screw up my password) and its always seemed to me that certain posters, especially the ones that have been here the since before the old format, (or back on rivals or ESPN) seem to feel their opinion is somewhat superior to others. I'm not saying thats the way it is, but thats the way its seemed, at least from time to time. The cynics may be "more tolerant" in the fact that they dont insult posters like the optimists (mostly newbies) do, but I have felt like they have talked down to the other side in arguments.

Not trying to start a debate here, I didnt mean anything I said as a shot at anyone. But as you said there is more than one side to every argument, and neither side is perfect.

In the end, we are all just a bunch of obsessed Ranger fans.

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Old
03-15-2006, 08:12 PM
  #25
dedalus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McRanger
Perhaps not a whole thread dedicated to the subject, but there has certainly been enough posters called pro-sather, satherites, the sunshine brigade, etc. at the first sign of any optimism, especially by some of the more "tolerant" posters.
But that's exactly my point. I think you'll find it extraordinarily difficult (actually I think you'll find it impossible) to find a single one of the usual critics who have called out the optimists among us and demanded that they change their position. Whether or not you like it, until you can find posts which are designed specifically to attack optimists, I don't see how you can argue the question of tolerance.

Will people react to statements within the context of a given thread? Certainly and especially if they feel they are under attack themselves, but that is quite different from making it a point to open a thread chastising posters for their views and stating that they are not "true fans" (an accusation that comes up whenever this topic comes up). Even within a thread I think you'll be hard pressed to find a critic of the team says he's "had enough" of the optimists on the board and that they should shut up or find another team to follow. Again, until you find responses within threads that go beyond name calling to tell optimists to pipe down or find another team, the question of who is more tolerant really isn't up for debate.

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