HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Bertuzzi extension

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-27-2003, 08:28 PM
  #26
cram
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 170
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
Yep Burke IMO lost some credibility in his small market rants.
some?? I think it went right out the window, but put yourself in his shoes...poor b.*****.d!

cram is offline  
Old
10-28-2003, 04:08 AM
  #27
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamettt
I totally disagree with the last part of your post. Totally totally disagree. Brian Burke is THE supporter of a new CBA and responsible spending. By your tone your infering that any team who gives a long term big money deal, no matter to whom the player, is automatically anti-cap and to be hated. The 'nucks traded for bertuzzi and developed him when his stock was low, just as we are trying to do with isbister at the moment. They cared for him until he repaid them back in full, becoming the best forward in the league. In terms of scoring, hitting, two way play, and leadership, I don't see how bertuzzi can be considered anything other than a top 5 forward, and perhaps the best. They didn't go out and sign someone who they never developed, a la rangers. They didn't go out and outbid anybody. They gave the bes player in the league a contract that he deserved. When the oilers get a 95 point power forward, I expect them to shell out the big bucks for him to keep him under the new CBA...that's how it's supposed to happen. Giving a player a good contract who deserves it and who you developed is not a bad thing, it's in fact a good thing for the league. He deserved that contract. Years as oilers fans have jaded us, but guess what, it's not a crime to keep your players.

The contract was not at all big compared to what some others are making. They are still in very very good cap position. What the hell are you *****ing about? Would you have had them trade bertuzzi for prospects just to ensure that they don't have a player above 6 million bucks a year? They had the money to spend due to playoff revenue and great ticket sales, and they used it. Good for burke, good for Vancouver, good for the fans. Oh, by the way, for a franchise that was near extension after the messier debacle, they are know stronger than ever, and it's not because their trading away all there good players, or because there spending excessively. It's because they've worked hard. So again I ask, what is it that you are complaining about here?
I think I made my point very clear, about what I am complaining about, it has to do with the timing of the deal, not the money involved. This is the night before Armageddon (work with me here).

No, when Burke goes to make a point to the players union about not being able to survive, etc... The players union can simply say, but you just managed to sign your marquee free agent... what are you complaining about? The system works.

It just adds another team to the list that the union can use as ammo... one more team that can easily survive without any changes to the CBA.

Then again, this is the guy who thinks Holik is worth $9 mil per season...

dawgbone is offline  
Old
10-28-2003, 04:13 AM
  #28
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
Quote:
Originally Posted by incawg
Assuming, of course, that the UFA age is not lowered with the new CBA. It has been widely speculated that one of the concessions that the owners will have to make in order to get a cap is the lowering of the UFA age to 30 or 29. This certainly played a big role in the negotiations.



Burke signed Bertuzzi to a very reasonable deal. He signed him for less than what comparable players are making. Like I said, out of all the alternatives this was - by far - the best option for Canucks management. Irregardless of what the new CBA looks like, Bertuzzi was going to be able to get the big bucks.

I know people love to bash Burke, but there really is no case to do so here.
I guess we will have to see when the new CBA comes out.

dawgbone is offline  
Old
10-28-2003, 05:24 AM
  #29
Mr Sakich
Registered User
 
Mr Sakich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Motel 35
Posts: 8,059
vCash: 500
before we go giving burke the executive of the year award, you guys should kno something about the contract. The Fan590 out of toronto interviewed the agent who did the deal and there is a major aspect of the deal that isn't being widely publicized.

If there is a one year strike, the next year of the deal goes up to 9 mill per year and he still gets his signing bonus of 500k in the third year. If there is a two year strike, todd gets 10 mill in the next year. I think he also said that todd has the option to make it a four year deal on top of this clause (basically a player's option to extend the deal at 10 mill per season).

The deal also gives todd a 8 million dollar deal this year innstead of the 3.5 mill he was guaranteed this year. He has bonus clauses in his old contract which he may not have reached but the new deal has no bonus requirements. Currently he has 4 points in 8 games. He will definately turn it around but he may not have achieved the points necessary for a big bonus to kick in.

Mr Sakich is offline  
Old
10-28-2003, 05:24 AM
  #30
Ironchef Chris Wok*
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Red Sox Nation
Country: Taiwan
Posts: 12,538
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Ironchef Chris Wok*
I think there's a difference between a Todd Bertuzzi salary and a Bobby Holik salary.

Todd Bertuzzi: Somebody the nucks traded for and DEVELOPED into a star player, rewarded him w/ the money.

Bobby Holik: A 2nd line center w/ size. When UFA reached, he ditched his team (whom he won 2 cups with) for the biggest long term contract he could fine.

There's a difference.

Ironchef Chris Wok* is offline  
Old
10-28-2003, 05:38 AM
  #31
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironchef Chris Wok
I think there's a difference between a Todd Bertuzzi salary and a Bobby Holik salary.

Todd Bertuzzi: Somebody the nucks traded for and DEVELOPED into a star player, rewarded him w/ the money.

Bobby Holik: A 2nd line center w/ size. When UFA reached, he ditched his team (whom he won 2 cups with) for the biggest long term contract he could fine.

There's a difference.
That's lovely...

But I have no idea why you are comparing them, that wasn't the point I was making.

dawgbone is offline  
Old
10-28-2003, 05:58 AM
  #32
Oiltalk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 2,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamettt
I totally disagree with the last part of your post. Totally totally disagree. Brian Burke is THE supporter of a new CBA and responsible spending. By your tone your infering that any team who gives a long term big money deal, no matter to whom the player, is automatically anti-cap and to be hated. The 'nucks traded for bertuzzi and developed him when his stock was low, just as we are trying to do with isbister at the moment. They cared for him until he repaid them back in full, becoming the best forward in the league. In terms of scoring, hitting, two way play, and leadership, I don't see how bertuzzi can be considered anything other than a top 5 forward, and perhaps the best. They didn't go out and sign someone who they never developed, a la rangers. They didn't go out and outbid anybody. They gave the bes player in the league a contract that he deserved. When the oilers get a 95 point power forward, I expect them to shell out the big bucks for him to keep him under the new CBA...that's how it's supposed to happen. Giving a player a good contract who deserves it and who you developed is not a bad thing, it's in fact a good thing for the league. He deserved that contract. Years as oilers fans have jaded us, but guess what, it's not a crime to keep your players.
Couldn't a fan of every team say that? I agree with most of what you said, but that way of thinking still isn't going to get anything done. One could sit here and debate all day why Lidstrom, Forsberg, etc. deserve the money they get, but the bottom line is they are all making well more than they should be making. Hopefully the CBA changes this.

Oiltalk is offline  
Old
10-28-2003, 08:40 AM
  #33
Oilers Hockey
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Heartland of Hockey
Posts: 1,531
vCash: 500
Get out of here krazycanuck19.

You are not welcome here. You embarrass Canuck fans.

Oilers Hockey is offline  
Old
10-28-2003, 08:42 AM
  #34
KrazyCanuck19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: 2010 Host City
Posts: 179
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemskyfan
Get out of here krazycanuck19.

You are not welcome here. You embarrass Canuck fans.
Get a Life....

KrazyCanuck19 is offline  
Old
10-28-2003, 08:43 AM
  #35
Oilers Hockey
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Heartland of Hockey
Posts: 1,531
vCash: 500
Anyone (ahem YOU) who posts on a board simply for the purposes of trolling not needs a life, but a lobotomy. In fact someone should kick your groin to ensure you won't procreate.

Oilers Hockey is offline  
Old
10-28-2003, 08:46 AM
  #36
KrazyCanuck19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: 2010 Host City
Posts: 179
vCash: 500
hemskyfan, I know you were one of the people people who was salivating at the thought of Bertuzzi leaving. I guess seeing star after star ditch ur team has left you pretty bitter. I bet u were pretty disappointed when you learned the Canucks managed to reach a deal with their star.

KrazyCanuck19 is offline  
Old
10-28-2003, 08:49 AM
  #37
Oilers Hockey
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Heartland of Hockey
Posts: 1,531
vCash: 500
Keep talking out of your ass krazycanuck19, I already PM'ed a mod about your termination. Trolls (like you) get banned from here, ASAP.

FYI I don't a damn about that ape Bertuzzi. I got my own problems about my own team to worry about.

Oilers Hockey is offline  
Old
10-28-2003, 09:41 AM
  #38
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyCanuck19
hemskyfan, I know you were one of the people people who was salivating at the thought of Bertuzzi leaving. I guess seeing star after star ditch ur team has left you pretty bitter. I bet u were pretty disappointed when you learned the Canucks managed to reach a deal with their star.
We may have lost start after star, but the Canucks still haven't accomplished more than the Oilers have over the past 5 years.

dawgbone is offline  
Old
10-28-2003, 10:59 AM
  #39
KrazyCanuck19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: 2010 Host City
Posts: 179
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
We may have lost start after star, but the Canucks still haven't accomplished more than the Oilers have over the past 5 years.
What have the Oilers accomplished in the past 5 years? I mean besides losing in the first round to the stars 4 times, and missing the playoffs once. At least the Canucks have won a round, and they also managed a 100 point season.

KrazyCanuck19 is offline  
Old
10-28-2003, 11:18 AM
  #40
Kerplunk
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyCanuck19
What have the Oilers accomplished in the past 5 years? I mean besides losing in the first round to the stars 4 times, and missing the playoffs once. At least the Canucks have won a round, and they also managed a 100 point season.
There is only one goal in the NHL and it isn't to win one round or "manage" a 100 point season. The Canucks have had no more success at achieving that goal than the Oilers.

 
Old
10-28-2003, 11:27 AM
  #41
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyCanuck19
What have the Oilers accomplished in the past 5 years? I mean besides losing in the first round to the stars 4 times, and missing the playoffs once. At least the Canucks have won a round, and they also managed a 100 point season.
The Oilers and Canucks have both won an astonishing 1 playoff round in the past 5 years.

So you may want to get part of your facts straight first.

dawgbone is offline  
Old
10-28-2003, 11:29 AM
  #42
Rageinthecage
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 320
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyCanuck19
What have the Oilers accomplished in the past 5 years? I mean besides losing in the first round to the stars 4 times, and missing the playoffs once. At least the Canucks have won a round, and they also managed a 100 point season.
...and the Oilers have five cups and the Canucks have zero. Dude, you probably hate the Avs troll that's currently bothering us on the Canucks page, why are you trolling here? Please don't give Canucks fans a bad name.

As for the Bertuzzi signing, the deal was absolutely necessary for the Canucks. It may be slightly difficult to squeeze into the new CBA, but I highly doubt there will be a hard salary cap. More like a soft cap with a luxury tax. 7 million is not too high for a player of his stature. Iginla received a pretty decent contract in an even smaller Canadian market. Ottawa will get to the point soon where they will have reward their stars as well (although many of their contracts will be post-cba, excellent fiscal planning there).

Edmonton should be able to keep their marquee players after the new agreement and be on a level playing field again. With all the young, promising players you have, a few of them are bound to be blue-chippers. Hemsky will be an elite scorer soon enough, and you'll be able to afford him too.

Rageinthecage is offline  
Old
10-28-2003, 05:43 PM
  #43
windowlicker
Registered User
 
windowlicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Murky Wisconsin
Country: United States
Posts: 2,181
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyCanuck19
What have the Oilers accomplished in the past 5 years? I mean besides losing in the first round to the stars 4 times, and missing the playoffs once. At least the Canucks have won a round, and they also managed a 100 point season.
A a 100% Oilers fan, I have only 2 wishes this hockey season:

1. Reasonable return for MC.

2. Oilers play Vancouver in the 1st round.

That is all I want for Xmas.

windowlicker is offline  
Old
10-29-2003, 08:04 AM
  #44
Mizral
Registered User
 
Mizral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Earth, MW
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,121
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerplunk
There is only one goal in the NHL and it isn't to win one round or "manage" a 100 point season. The Canucks have had no more success at achieving that goal than the Oilers.
At the risk of sounding like a pom-pom waiver, isn't that a little bit simplistic in thinking?

Are you saying that if the Oilers won the President's trophy, made it to the conference finals, Ryan Smyth scored 50 goals and Ales Hemsky won the Art Ross with 120 points, Marty Reasoner won the Selke, Tommy Salo won the Vezina, and the team played like demons in the post-season but lost in the final game 7 of that conference finals in OT..

that the Oilers would be no more successful than they are now?

Sorry, I don't believe that. While that may have been true in a 6-team league, nowadays, point-totals do matter for success of a team. A 2nd round exit is peferable to not making the playoffs at all, and I would say you could look at teams that didn't win the Cup such as the Anaheim Mighty Ducks, the Minnesota Wild, and the Tampa Bay Lightning, and say last year they had *very* successful years for their franchises.

And while there is that one elusive goal, to say that 29 teams are failures every given year, to me, just doesn't wash.

Mizral is offline  
Old
10-29-2003, 08:15 AM
  #45
Oilers Hockey
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Heartland of Hockey
Posts: 1,531
vCash: 500
Quote:
Are you saying that if the Oilers won the President's trophy, made it to the conference finals, Ryan Smyth scored 50 goals and Ales Hemsky won the Art Ross with 120 points, Marty Reasoner won the Selke, Tommy Salo won the Vezina, and the team played like demons in the post-season but lost in the final game 7 of that conference finals in OT..
To imply that the Canucks would do this is pom pom waving.

Oilers Hockey is offline  
Old
10-29-2003, 08:32 AM
  #46
Burke's Evil Spirit
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 15,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemskyfan
To imply that the Canucks would do this is pom pom waving.
Which, if you'll read the post, isn't what he did.

Burke's Evil Spirit is offline  
Old
10-29-2003, 10:13 AM
  #47
Behind Enemy Lines
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 3,767
vCash: 500
The impending CBA war aside, this is a very good signing imo for all of the following reasons:

- Burke has acted in good faith to reward exceptional performance (and has done so in the current market reality).
- Burke has achieve value in relation to other contracts within this marketplace (Bill Geuren, Bobby Holik, Keith Tkachuk, Doug Weight et all)
- Burke has achieved effective compromise and built loyalty and respect with one of this team's star players.
- Burke has demonstrated management's commitment to win both to its fans and the team players.
- Burke has clearly done the bean counting to feel in good fair this is a fair contract for both parties.

I for one do not begrudge high player salaries if they are achieved through performance and results demonstrated over a long period of time. The issue for me is the unnecessary salary escalation created through bad contracts for entry level players (ie. Alex Daigle) and overpayment of second tier players (ie. Bobby Holik, Darius Kasparitis) by poorly managed clubs.

Oiler management achieved their own win-win contract arrangement this summer with Ryan Smyth. Both sides compromised to keen Smyth in Edmonton.

Behind Enemy Lines is offline  
Old
10-29-2003, 11:10 AM
  #48
Mizral
Registered User
 
Mizral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Earth, MW
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,121
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemskyfan
To imply that the Canucks would do this is pom pom waving.
Don't be so bloody jittery. I never implied that in the least.

Mizral is offline  
Old
10-29-2003, 11:12 AM
  #49
Mizral
Registered User
 
Mizral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Earth, MW
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,121
vCash: 500
As usual, Behind_Enemy_Lines comes through with the best post on the thread.

I agree with you on Smyth, and I feel it draws some comparisons with Bertuzzi. Obviously Bertuzzi is a much better player than Smyth and is compensated moreso (deservedly), but there is no doubt that either player could have gotten more had they held out for more bucks & got traded to another team willing to pay 'em. Bertuzzi could have gotten $9 million, Smyth probobly around $4.5. Yet both took lesser amounts to stay with their club.

Mizral is offline  
Old
10-29-2003, 11:22 AM
  #50
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
This is all fun and wonderful, but it still doesn't address the whole issue I brought up.

Burke has always held firm that a lot of teams do not use the CBA to their advantage, and make poor decisions... And has always preached that their needs to an equal footing for the Canadian clubs to compete.

This signing virtually eliminates all of what he has talked about over the past few years. The list of teams who cannot compete under the current CBA got one team shorter... and frankly, I am really beginning to question how many of these teams there are anymore.

As much as this is a good signing for the Canucks (that hasn't been the point at all, though Canuck fans have gotten all righteous on here and claimed that this post is based on the fact that this is a terrible signing for Vancouver, and Bertuzzi isn't worth the money he got), it is equally a bad signing for every team who is counting on a new CBA to survive. Yet another team that can keep it's players under the current system. The more of these teams that exist, the less the players union has to bend in order to get a deal they want.

I guess, the thing that pisses me off the most, is that Burke never shut up about the importance of a new CBA... at least the teams who don't need a new CBA aren't preaching about it.

dawgbone is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:39 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.