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Old
03-19-2006, 10:08 AM
  #1
toshiro
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Criticism

The Habs have beed terrible for a decade. What is with the posters who badmouth fans who criticize the team or management? Are they happy with mediocrity? BG worshipping is ridiculous.

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03-19-2006, 10:15 AM
  #2
Blind Gardien
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I think there are different levels of criticism of the team/management corresponding to different levels of expectations, and it's often difficult to correlate the two when reading a 4-sentence rant on a hockey message board.

I'm not disappointed at all with the way the Habs have played this season. I'm generally not disappointed with the way that Gainey has managed the team since he signed on. I'm not even particularly disappointed with that loss against Pittsburgh last night.

Does it mean I'm happy with mediocrity? No. It just means that I feel like the Habs are still a work in progress, and I feel any higher expectation at this time would be unrealistic. I'm not happy with EVERYTHING that Gainey has done (or hasn't done), but most of that is nitpicking. In the grand scheme, I don't see us being any better than we are right now even if some of those nitpicks were corrected.

(Also, I disagree about the BG worshipping. I heartily endorse certain forms of BG worshipping. )

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Old
03-19-2006, 10:20 AM
  #3
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People have a right to criticize, but in my opinion, We have a good hockey club, they just need to show some consistency. They are always hot and cold. Consistency is what seperates the boys from the men.

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Old
03-19-2006, 10:24 AM
  #4
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Gainey has continued the rebuilding from ground-up. The infrastructure of the team is sound.

He's like Gretzky, he seems to be loyal to a fault. I would have liked to see a LOT of changes on our blueline, but it didn't happen.

As for the performance of the guys we have, they are playing just like most people thought they would. Lots of kids in the lineup. I'm shocked that Koivu has played so many games myself.

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Old
03-19-2006, 10:34 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro
The Habs have beed terrible for a decade. What is with the posters who badmouth fans who criticize the team or management? Are they happy with mediocrity? BG worshipping is ridiculous.
They've made the playoffs six of the last ten seasons. I wouldn't say that they've been terrible for a decade. Mediocre for a decade, maybe...

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Old
03-19-2006, 10:34 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien
I think there are different levels of criticism of the team/management corresponding to different levels of expectations, and it's often difficult to correlate the two when reading a 4-sentence rant on a hockey message board.

I'm not disappointed at all with the way the Habs have played this season. I'm generally not disappointed with the way that Gainey has managed the team since he signed on. I'm not even particularly disappointed with that loss against Pittsburgh last night.

Does it mean I'm happy with mediocrity? No. It just means that I feel like the Habs are still a work in progress, and I feel any higher expectation at this time would be unrealistic. I'm not happy with EVERYTHING that Gainey has done (or hasn't done), but most of that is nitpicking. In the grand scheme, I don't see us being any better than we are right now even if some of those nitpicks were corrected.

(Also, I disagree about the BG worshipping. I heartily endorse certain forms of BG worshipping. )
and Gainey can only do what GG allows anyway.

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Old
03-19-2006, 10:47 AM
  #7
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Just as much as a fan can criticize the team/management, other fans have a right to call out those that do it gratuitously, with unbalanced arguments, and especially those that do it without providing any form of intelligent reasoning. Outright gratuitous BG/player bashing by the amateurs that we are is just as, if not more, ridiculous than worship.

Also take note that the word "fan" is derivative from "fanatic", meaning that these people (myself included ) develop a form of unconditional love for their team and certain players and will defend them from gratuitous bashing to the death (so to speak ). Nothing wrong with that. That's what being a fan is all about. And has no bearings on whether we are satisfied with mediocrity.

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Old
03-19-2006, 10:52 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo
Just as much as a fan can criticize the team/management, other fans have a right to call out those that do it gratuitously, with unbalanced arguments, and especially those that do it without providing any form of intelligent reasoning. Outright gratuitous BG/player bashing by the amateurs that we are is just as, if not more, ridiculous than worship.

Also take note that the word "fan" is derivative from "fanatic", meaning that these people (myself included ) develop a form of unconditional love for their team and certain players and will defend them from gratuitous bashing to the death (so to speak ). Nothing wrong with that. That's what being a fan is all about. And has no bearings on whether we are satisfied with mediocrity.
like calling anyone who criticizes an amateur. That is namecalling

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Old
03-19-2006, 10:53 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro
like calling anyone who criticizes an amateur. That is namecalling
I'm an amateur as well. We all are.

"Outright gratuitous BG/player bashing by the amateurs that we are is just as, if not more, ridiculous than worship." is what I said.

Outright gratuitous bashing = a threatening attack done without providing reason

When done by "amateurs", which we all are, has no credibility and is ridiculous. Other have every right to call you out on that. Why should such inane posters have a form of immunity???

Please if you are going to criticize, provide a reason to back your claim(s). If you do that, it's not "gratuitous bashing" and a proper healthy debate can ensue.


Last edited by Turbo: 03-19-2006 at 10:59 AM.
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Old
03-19-2006, 10:57 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien
I think there are different levels of criticism of the team/management corresponding to different levels of expectations, and it's often difficult to correlate the two when reading a 4-sentence rant on a hockey message board.

I'm not disappointed at all with the way the Habs have played this season. I'm generally not disappointed with the way that Gainey has managed the team since he signed on. I'm not even particularly disappointed with that loss against Pittsburgh last night.

Does it mean I'm happy with mediocrity? No. It just means that I feel like the Habs are still a work in progress, and I feel any higher expectation at this time would be unrealistic. I'm not happy with EVERYTHING that Gainey has done (or hasn't done), but most of that is nitpicking. In the grand scheme, I don't see us being any better than we are right now even if some of those nitpicks were corrected.

(Also, I disagree about the BG worshipping. I heartily endorse certain forms of BG worshipping. )
I watched the oilers play detroit last evening. Do the Habs have a hemsky, a smith, a peca, etc etc. The oil are a mediocre team but have great young players. I hope that GG allows some spending on UFAs this year or we are consigned again.

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Old
03-19-2006, 10:57 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo
I'm an amateur as well. We all are.
lol like hockey is rocket science

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Old
03-19-2006, 11:14 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro
lol like hockey is rocket science
You started a thread questionning the right of people that criticize other posters that say something negative about Gainey/Players/The Team.

Then you said those posters must be "satisfied with mediocrity". Talk about name calling! That's insulting and presumptuous to say the least.

Your claims are preposterous.

If you criticize without backing it up, you deserve all the negative responses you get.

If you criticize with some intelligent arguments, you still have to be prepared for a debate with those that disagree.

That's what it's all about.

What's your point? You want immunity when you criticize? Come on, you're just as accountable as anyone else for your words.

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Old
03-19-2006, 11:24 AM
  #13
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Too many posts on HFBoards are overblown or exaggerated. IMO the Habs record of making the playoffs 6 out of 10 times should be termed mediocre, not terrible. The Rangers streak of 7 years without a playoff appearance meets the definition of terrible. The Islanders and Blackhawks have been just as bad. Ten for 10 would be exceptional. How many teams have reached it recently? Even the Devils missed once.

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Old
03-19-2006, 11:26 AM
  #14
Dan K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro
lol like hockey is rocket science
You know tosh, I put up with your posts most of the time, but a statement like this makes people want to disregard what you say.

The world of hockey is indeed very complicated. And we are all indeed amateurs who don't get to see the inner goings on. It doesn't work like NHL 2006 or EHM Hockey Manager. There's much more to it than that.

Fans here like to look on the positive side because we want to see this team do well. We have to buy into their vision, otherwise we can't call ourselves "fans." If you don't like where a team is heading, you have no reason to consider yourself a "fan" of that team. Be a "fan" of a team that you do like where is heading.

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Old
03-19-2006, 11:58 AM
  #15
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Why is is that we have to have philosophical discussion on the definiton of "being a fan" after every losing streak.

Damn. Are the critics better fans because they want the team to do better? Are the unconditionel lovers better fans because they love unconditionally?

I don't know.. And I don't care.

The team played a frustrating game against Pittsburgh.. Aebisher played badly. Does that mean that BG is an idiot? no. Does it mean Aebisher is a sieve? no. Does it mean we need Danis as a backup? no. It means Huet will start the next game or two and we give Aebisher another start after.

The Habs were a mediocre team from 1999 to 2003. We're still not great, but I see glimmers of hope. Does this mean I'm "satisfied with mediocrity"? Well who the hell are you to tell me that? No I'm not satisfied with mediocrity... I want a cup every year.. Every ******* year! But I also know that ain't gonna happen and I can enjoy my team, my players, in the meantime. That is my right as a fan.

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Old
03-19-2006, 12:02 PM
  #16
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I though the negativity would slow down after the trade deadline. It's completely useless to whine now that they can't make any change...

Specially that Gainey and Carbonneau are doing a pretty good job as coaches.

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Old
03-19-2006, 12:17 PM
  #17
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Overall, I'm not disappointed by the Habs. I felt before the season started that there would be weaknesses, especially on defense, and those weaknesses have materialized. I am pleased with the development of Higgins and Plekanec. I expected more from Bonk and I overestimated the potential effectiveness of the Zednik-Koivu-Kovalev line based on their performance in the last playoffs. I'm gratified that Souray has emerged from his funk. I'm overwhelmed by Huet's contribution. Who could have foreseen it?

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Old
03-19-2006, 12:18 PM
  #18
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The main problem with the organisation is the fact they don't accept we have a bad team, then do a complete reconstruction, which should have been done 10 years ago actually. Each year, they fight hard for the 7-8 place, have terribly poor drafts and refuse to trade for prospects.

This year for exemple, do we have the slightest chance of winning the cup? No. Of course. So what's the point in keeping our veterans? Trade them all for prospects!

I think the team works pretty hard, but ultimately, we are lacking in talent. If we make the playoffs, we would be the worst team talent wise in there.

And as for the prospects, Plekanec and Higgins are already in the team, and probably almost at their full potential. Perezhogin isn't good enough for the nhl. Kostitsin looks like a poor man's Berezin . And all our other prospects aren't good enough, or are too far away from the nhl to be worth mentionning.

So unless we're really lucky, we should finish between the 7th and 11th position for the next 3-4 years...

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