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Old
10-27-2003, 03:08 PM
  #26
ZIM
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Originally Posted by IceDragoon
Cool. And I said "I can't fathom your reason..." Apparently, your reason for the back handed accusation is that you're a **** disturber. Now that, I understand.

YAY KEV
I guess you do understand. Here's a quote from you regarding Ottawa.

"I would feel pity for them and move on.
ok - if they were just stirring things up, I may feel the need to play a little first."

play a little = **** disturber

pot kettle

 
Old
10-27-2003, 03:13 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
So who has a link to either Comrie or Winter requesting a trade. I haven't seen one.
So you're saying that it is your belief that neither has requested a trade?

I've personally just been reading between the lines. Its not like Winter's being all that subtle.

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10-27-2003, 03:25 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by MrMackey
So you're saying that it is your belief that neither has requested a trade?

I've personally just been reading between the lines. Its not like Winter's being all that subtle.
I'm only bringing it up because Kevin Lowe included it in his press release. Given the general mood of this forum I would have thought that Winter or Comrie making such a statement would have started a thread all on its own, or at least be quoted somewhere.

 
Old
10-27-2003, 03:34 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by copperandblue
Honestly, I think it's an appropriate move by Lowe.

Sometimes perception can go a long way.

Based on all that has been written today, is it safe to assume Comrie is done here and is simply waiting for a trade? I would say yes.

Winter has said that Comrie holds the hammer in deciding what team Lowe can trade with. Based on that, I think it is reasonable to assume that Winter has "felt out" what contracts are out there from which teams and who will give the little suck the most money.

If Lowe runs to the table it just fuels the impression that he has to make the deal soon. If he acts indifferent to the urgency then the teams that Winter has felt out, won't be so quick to assume that this deal will be done on their terms (meaning Winter's and the other team).

Lowe is simply reinforcing the position that this deal (trade) will be done on his terms for what he feels is the best deal. Not Comries terms and the deals Winter negotiates with other for.

I don't know if that makes sense but I guess I am just saying this is simply just another step in the process.
Yep and Winter would love everyone to think he holds the hammer but in reality he doesn't.

Yes, he could hold up a trade to say Atlanta but then Lowe could say fine then you sit longer. I am in no hurry to find another team.

Lowe holds the ultimate hammer and that is why Winter felt the need to run to the media first.

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Old
10-27-2003, 03:41 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by spaz44
Yep and Winter would love everyone to think he holds the hammer but in reality he doesn't.

Yes, he could hold up a trade to say Atlanta but then Lowe could say fine then you sit longer. I am in no hurry to find another team.

Lowe holds the ultimate hammer and that is why Winter felt the need to run to the media first.
Have a read of this Brownlee article before deciding who has the hammer.

 
Old
10-27-2003, 03:54 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
Have a read of this Brownlee article before deciding who has the hammer.
I think they're both carrying hammers.

Mike & Rich's hammer is the little girlie hammer that you get from IKEA, whereas Lowe is carrying around the sledge.

Ultimately, Comrie wants to get out of Edmonton, play hockey, and try to show Kevin Lowe up. If a deal that gets Comrie into another uniform presents itself, then I think MC will jump at the chance and sign on the dotted line with the new team, therefore negating much of what was said in the article.

Comrie and his agent can just keep tinking away with their little hammer.

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10-27-2003, 03:55 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
Have a read of this Brownlee article before deciding who has the hammer.
I read that and then gave MY opinion. As I said, yes Comrie can say I don't want to sign with the team that Lowe trades him too. But ultimately the Oilers can make him sit for years.

Lowe has the ultimate hammer whether Winter or Winters lackie Brownlee likes it or not.

BTW, Brownlee also said that Smyth would sign for 5 million, somthing I said was ridiculous. Was I supposed to believe it because Brownlee said it was true? Turned out he was out to lunch. Brownlee is giving his opinion, I have a different opinion.

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10-27-2003, 04:01 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
Have a read of this Brownlee article before deciding who has the hammer.

Here's the thing, though. Lowe has a major problem if he makes a deal now, and that is getting full value.

Let me ask you something: if you were Lowe, would you rather face the wrath of a fan base that feels you got 10 cents on the dollar, or just keep writing quick releases saying "I work for the Edmonton Oilers"?

Seems like a no-brainer to me. The pressure Lowe is under now is pretty small compared to what might happen if he buggers up this deal.

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10-27-2003, 04:02 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
I'm only bringing it up because Kevin Lowe included it in his press release. Given the general mood of this forum I would have thought that Winter or Comrie making such a statement would have started a thread all on its own, or at least be quoted somewhere.
It's not hard to read between the lines... Winter says that Lowe wouldn't meet face to face with Comrie, and Lowe said he would gladly make the time to talk to Comrie face to face if it was for the purpose of bringing him back to Edmonton.

It's safe to say that the face to face wasn't going to be about him staying in Edmonton.

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10-27-2003, 04:07 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Here's the thing, though. Lowe has a major problem if he makes a deal now, and that is getting full value.

Let me ask you something: if you were Lowe, would you rather face the wrath of a fan base that feels you got 10 cents on the dollar, or just keep writing quick releases saying "I work for the Edmonton Oilers"?

Seems like a no-brainer to me. The pressure Lowe is under now is pretty small compared to what might happen if he buggers up this deal.
I fully agree. The key here, in my opinion, is the Oilers have enough players deserving of NHL time. While many on this board don't agree that all of them are playing (e.g. Ferguson), the Oilers aren't under huge pressure to move Comrie to fill a gaping hole in the line up.

This is, in almost every way, the opposite of Comrie's first contract tantrum—err, negotiation.

Then, Comrie had the ultimate power to dictate terms or walk away, screwing the other party. Now, Lowe does.

Then, Comrie had the ability to say he was going to be the top line center, pointing to the loss of Weight as a gaping offensive hole in the roster. Now, Lowe can point to all the solid young talent that has "earned a spot" or "deserves a look."

Then, the CBA was stacked in Comrie's favor. Now, it's stacked in Lowe's.

Push come to shove, it all comes down to my final point. Lowe is using the CBA the way it was intended. It's just a big deal because it's rare for management to take that route.

My 2 cents...

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Old
10-27-2003, 04:12 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serum114
I fully agree. The key here, in my opinion, is the Oilers have enough players deserving of NHL time. While many on this board don't agree that all of them are playing (e.g. Ferguson), the Oilers aren't under huge pressure to move Comrie to fill a gaping hole in the line up.

This is, in almost every way, the opposite of Comrie's first contract tantrum—err, negotiation.

Then, Comrie had the ultimate power to dictate terms or walk away, screwing the other party. Now, Lowe does.

Then, Comrie had the ability to say he was going to be the top line center, pointing to the loss of Weight as a gaping offensive hole in the roster. Now, Lowe can point to all the solid young talent that has "earned a spot" or "deserves a look."

Then, the CBA was stacked in Comrie's favor. Now, it's stacked in Lowe's.

Push come to shove, it all comes down to my final point. Lowe is using the CBA the way it was intended. It's just a big deal because it's rare for management to take that route.

My 2 cents...
excellent post I agree with you. Although I think you guys are to hard on Lowes contracts. I mean the guy puts the team in the 90 point bracket every year with one of the 4-5 lowest salaries and you accuse him of being bad with money? C'mon ppl - their are about 20 teams that wish they were as "bad" as we are.

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Old
10-27-2003, 04:15 PM
  #37
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After all this time, if Comrie negated a deal to any other team, his stock would plummit in the nhl.

Comrie may very well sit for the entire year. Like someone else here said, Lowe is better off to make no deal than a bad deal.

I think the more time passes, any deal will be a big muti player deal. No GM wants to risk trading for Comrie, who has been available all year, for what Lowe is probably asking for. If so, this would have been done by now.

I'd be less suprised if he was part of a 9 player deal or something. Then a GM who gets Comrie has some insurance in case Comrie tanks, so he's not the butt of the jokes at the GM meetings. And Lowe would have insurance in case the main player we get turns goat. Sort of like "oh ya, well at least we also got Torres".

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Old
10-27-2003, 04:39 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by lowetide
Here's the thing, though. Lowe has a major problem if he makes a deal now, and that is getting full value.

Let me ask you something: if you were Lowe, would you rather face the wrath of a fan base that feels you got 10 cents on the dollar, or just keep writing quick releases saying "I work for the Edmonton Oilers"?

Seems like a no-brainer to me. The pressure Lowe is under now is pretty small compared to what might happen if he buggers up this deal.
I am puzzled why Lowe felt it necessary to say anything, he seems to have the high road on this one.

Several months ago on this forum I claimed that Kevin Lowe's job was to make money because that is what businesses do. What he has to balance is the short term profit he makes by not solving the Comrie situation against the long term financial impact of a losing hockey team. Remember the struggle it used to be to fill enough seats so the Oilers qualified for NHL help? Edmontonians don't like losing teams and they make their feelings known by not going to games. You are right, he doesn't do this correctly and he could cost Edmonton their franchise.

 
Old
10-27-2003, 04:42 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by spaz44
I read that and then gave MY opinion. As I said, yes Comrie can say I don't want to sign with the team that Lowe trades him too. But ultimately the Oilers can make him sit for years.

Lowe has the ultimate hammer whether Winter or Winters lackie Brownlee likes it or not.

BTW, Brownlee also said that Smyth would sign for 5 million, somthing I said was ridiculous. Was I supposed to believe it because Brownlee said it was true? Turned out he was out to lunch. Brownlee is giving his opinion, I have a different opinion.
I consider this a watershed event for Brownlee. Just about everything prior to this has been, at least IMHO, an attempt to alienate the fans WRT Comrie. My perception was that Brownlee wanted to run Comrie out of town.

 
Old
10-27-2003, 04:47 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
I am puzzled why Lowe felt it necessary to say anything, he seems to have the high road on this one.
Why? Simple. He doesn't respond or refuses to acknowledge Rich's comment and he does nothing but let Rich Winter sway the public. He's doing a sort of damage control. By not responding at all, it would probably hurt Lowe more.

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Old
10-27-2003, 05:17 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
I guess you do understand. Here's a quote from you regarding Ottawa.

"I would feel pity for them and move on.
ok - if they were just stirring things up, I may feel the need to play a little first."

play a little = **** disturber

pot kettle
I won't deny that when I see ****, I get an urge to disturb it. (i usually control my urges, tho)
And, I'm certainly not going to argue with your "takes one to know one" logic.

btw - You requested a link.

http://www.canoe.ca/Slam031008/nhl_edm1-sun.html

"I don't care about anything except making the best deal for this organization," Lowe said yesterday. "When I'm being told by a player he wants to be traded, it's a no-lose situation for me.

"Whatever they do, whatever they say, it's about Mike getting what he wants and nothing more. If they think they can somehow turn up the heat on us ... ."

One last time, until Comrie has his say: it's over here. It's time to move on. It's not a matter of if, but when.

"I'm very doubtful," Winter said, asked if he sees any outcome other than a trade. "I don't believe so."


Looks like MC told KLo that "he wants to be traded". If not, you can be sure that Winter would have jumped all over that statement, like a dog on a bone. To date, there has been no denial from the Comrie camp. Either they are content allowing that *lie* to stand; or it's 100% true.

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10-27-2003, 05:49 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
You are right, he doesn't do this correctly and he could cost Edmonton their franchise.
I don't think a bad MC deal would cost Edmonton their franchise, but it could have a major impact on Lowe's future in the GM business.

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Old
10-27-2003, 06:02 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by IceDragoon
I won't deny that when I see ****, I get an urge to disturb it. (i usually control my urges, tho)
And, I'm certainly not going to argue with your "takes one to know one" logic.

btw - You requested a link.

http://www.canoe.ca/Slam031008/nhl_edm1-sun.html

"I don't care about anything except making the best deal for this organization," Lowe said yesterday. "When I'm being told by a player he wants to be traded, it's a no-lose situation for me.

"Whatever they do, whatever they say, it's about Mike getting what he wants and nothing more. If they think they can somehow turn up the heat on us ... ."

One last time, until Comrie has his say: it's over here. It's time to move on. It's not a matter of if, but when.

"I'm very doubtful," Winter said, asked if he sees any outcome other than a trade. "I don't believe so."


Looks like MC told KLo that "he wants to be traded". If not, you can be sure that Winter would have jumped all over that statement, like a dog on a bone. To date, there has been no denial from the Comrie camp. Either they are content allowing that *lie* to stand; or it's 100% true.
My problem with the link is that, once again, this is what Kevin Lowe is saying a player (note he doesn't even identify the player) said to him. Anything I've ever seen or read quoting Comrie he skips around the issue. That's why I've asked for quotes attributed to Comrie or Winter.

Until then, for me at least, Lowe's statement is nothing more than another shot in the PR war. IMHO the real truth lies somewhere between "lie" and "truth" and is a matter of interpretation.

 
Old
10-27-2003, 08:21 PM
  #44
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At this point I am quite comfortable giving Lowe my faith and trust in the fact that he will do what is right for the Oilers. Conversely I couldn't say the same about a greedy player who doesn't care that he quit on his teamates and home town city. Lowe ofered Comrie an out today about welcoming him back to the Oilers. If Comrie has two brain cells to rub together, he should tell Winter to go pick up his drycleaning, and while Rich is doing that Comrie can have a sit down with Lowe. There are 29 other GM's around the league that are learning about what kind of a man Comrie is, and I would bet most of them don't like what they see. That in itself will limit potential trading partners.

Winter is poison to this franchise...Sather got rid of Satan mostly because of who represented him. That is why I don't envision Comrie heading off to the Big Apple.

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Old
10-27-2003, 09:19 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by spaz44
Lowe has the ultimate hammer whether Winter or Winters lackie Brownlee likes it or not.
I respectfully disagree.

Kevin Lowe has said he will do what is best for the Edmonton Oilers. Mike Comrie is an Oiler asset worth, for lack of a better number, $2M.

Lowe can let Comrie sit till he's 31 years old and the asset is worth $0. In this scenario Mike has the leverage because it is not in the Oilers interests to destroy assets. They could do it out of spite, but this is a business that already loses money.

Lowe can sign Comrie and trade him. Hopefully we are able to trade for at least $2M worth of assets or better yet, get players who cost $1M but are worth $2M. In this scenario Kevin Lowe needs Mike's signature and so Mike has the leverage.

Under any trade scenario Winter seems to be implying that they won't sign unless the team can reach a deal with Mike - hence leverage advantage to Comrie.

I think the only leverage Lowe has is that Comrie loves to play hockey. Maybe Comrie will just say - OK I'll sign, I don't need the money anyway, I'm already rich, I'd rather play for free than not at all. Yeah, right.

 
Old
10-27-2003, 09:40 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
Under any trade scenario Winter seems to be implying that they won't sign unless the team can reach a deal with Mike - hence leverage advantage to Comrie.
What leverage does Comrie gain from this? He makes himself harder to trade... and? Comrie hasn't got the leverage to force other teams to offer Lowe a trade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
I think the only leverage Lowe has is that Comrie loves to play hockey. Maybe Comrie will just say - OK I'll sign, I don't need the money anyway, I'm already rich, I'd rather play for free than not at all. Yeah, right.
Well, Comrie also loves money as you point out. If Comrie is hoping for $2 million (and I'm sure it's more), then he loses $2 million per year that he's holding out. Lindros said he'd only sign with Toronto, but when it became obvious that he'd never get back in the NHL, he released a new list- a list of all the teams that could possibly afford his contract expectations.

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10-27-2003, 09:45 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
I respectfully disagree.

Kevin Lowe has said he will do what is best for the Edmonton Oilers. Mike Comrie is an Oiler asset worth, for lack of a better number, $2M.

Lowe can let Comrie sit till he's 31 years old and the asset is worth $0. In this scenario Mike has the leverage because it is not in the Oilers interests to destroy assets. They could do it out of spite, but this is a business that already loses money.

Lowe can sign Comrie and trade him. Hopefully we are able to trade for at least $2M worth of assets or better yet, get players who cost $1M but are worth $2M. In this scenario Kevin Lowe needs Mike's signature and so Mike has the leverage.

Under any trade scenario Winter seems to be implying that they won't sign unless the team can reach a deal with Mike - hence leverage advantage to Comrie.

I think the only leverage Lowe has is that Comrie loves to play hockey. Maybe Comrie will just say - OK I'll sign, I don't need the money anyway, I'm already rich, I'd rather play for free than not at all. Yeah, right.
If Comrie/Winter have all the leverage, why are they the ones running to any and all media types that'll give them air time to plead their case? Why did they blink first?

Right now they're coming across as the nervous ones, not Lowe. Just my opinion, of course.

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10-28-2003, 03:06 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
I respectfully disagree.

Kevin Lowe has said he will do what is best for the Edmonton Oilers. Mike Comrie is an Oiler asset worth, for lack of a better number, $2M.

Lowe can let Comrie sit till he's 31 years old and the asset is worth $0. In this scenario Mike has the leverage because it is not in the Oilers interests to destroy assets. They could do it out of spite, but this is a business that already loses money.

Lowe can sign Comrie and trade him. Hopefully we are able to trade for at least $2M worth of assets or better yet, get players who cost $1M but are worth $2M. In this scenario Kevin Lowe needs Mike's signature and so Mike has the leverage.

Under any trade scenario Winter seems to be implying that they won't sign unless the team can reach a deal with Mike - hence leverage advantage to Comrie.

I think the only leverage Lowe has is that Comrie loves to play hockey. Maybe Comrie will just say - OK I'll sign, I don't need the money anyway, I'm already rich, I'd rather play for free than not at all. Yeah, right.
Bottom line is Comrie's a hockey player and what he does best is play hockey. He makes his living playing hockey. Lowe has leverage because Comrie will play hockey, hence make a living, when and only when K.lo says so. Yeah, Yeah he's made lots of money in the past 3 years but you know what - the more $ you make the more you spend.

The only leverage he may have is playing elsewhere but he won;'t make the big $$ he does in the NHL.

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Old
10-28-2003, 04:10 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Dr. van Nostrin
Bottom line is Comrie's a hockey player and what he does best is play hockey. He makes his living playing hockey. Lowe has leverage because Comrie will play hockey, hence make a living, when and only when K.lo says so. Yeah, Yeah he's made lots of money in the past 3 years but you know what - the more $ you make the more you spend.

The only leverage he may have is playing elsewhere but he won;'t make the big $$ he does in the NHL.
It's a new day and there is new info available in the press. Before I get there though I will expand a little on why I think Mike has leverage. In most cases you are right and the player, not just Comrie, makes his living playing hockey. This may be true in Comrie's case unless it turns out that daddy is rich, Mike doesn't have to make a living playing hockey and he could do equally well outside of hockey. This is my speculation but if true it changes the value of Lowe's leverage.

So today there are articles in the Journal and the Sun discussing the "player requested a trade" statement by Lowe.


As I said yesterday the truth lies somewhere in between. These articles suggest that Winter has suggested to Lowe that a trade will be the end result because, after negotiating, it seems an agreement is unlikely. A trade scenario might be the final soulution, not the starting position as some have implied, and that is why I say the truth is in the middle.

On to the radio to hear Brynster and the replay of a Winter interview.

Now I've heard the interview. What I learned is that there are deep philosphical differences that Winter will not identify publicly. It seems that in the past 2 weeks the position has hardened to Mike will not play in Edmonton. His expectation is a trade to a cup contender.

 
Old
10-28-2003, 09:00 AM
  #50
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His "expectation"??? God...

This is why he might end up sitting for a long time, and why nothing's happened yet. Lowe has to find a team willing to give up some good player(s) in a trade for Comrie (+?), but ALSO a team that Comrie would agree to a contract with. If that team has to be a contender for the Cup, then the number of possible trading partners for Lowe is diminished, reducing the competition between trading partners, reducing the trades/players offered by those trading partners to the Oilers.

It's really too bad, and it really does seem to be a case of some bad decisions by a young man that aren't helped by his agent. <sigh>

Bart

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