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Roster Speculation 2017-18 Part 2

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Old
05-12-2017, 03:53 PM
  #26
OkimLom
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Originally Posted by Aladyyn View Post
One player played for a coach that had a solid forward core with multiple all-star level players score less 5on5 goals than everyone other than New Jersey and Vancouver. Yes, the Arizona Coyotes scored more 5on5 goals than the Sabres last season. ARIZONA COYOTES. Max Domi scored 9 goals last season and they still managed to have better 5on5 scoring than Buffalo.

Meanwhile, Draisaitl gets to play with the best offensive player in the world for the majority of the season.

It's basically the same thing.
Oh come on, Eichel isn't some scrub.

The better argument to makes is that Dras was used and best suited to play the wing position, which enhances his effectiveness. We have seen LD play center, and he played just as well as Reinhart plays wing. LD plays the wing position as well as Reinhart does play the center position.

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05-12-2017, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CacOBG View Post
On Reinhart, it's been clarified 3 times over what was said. Winger in his eyes for now, to be discussed with future coach and from what he sees further on... Not sure where that came from, but whatever.
That's total crap. I listened myself, as did a bunch of others on the Botterill thread.

Exact words: You know, from what I've seen mostly of him I would say it's more from a wing standpoint but those are the decisions that you certainly work with the coaching staff and what I like about it is I think.

He's seen him on wing. Full stop.

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05-12-2017, 03:55 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by CacOBG View Post
Because it's a way to obtain top D with only giving up futures and cap/salary. Otherwise, we are looking at giving up Reinhart, and we all know how that conversation goes from the other topic on this. I'd rather have 2 top quality D unless I have something like the forward core of the Pens for example where you can compensate for somewhat weaker D.
Read earlier in the thread where I laid out how the 3 of the 4 teams still in the playoffs were running 3 scoring lines, with lesser wingers with their top centers.

The Pens forward core is Crosby, Kessel, Malkin, and Hornqvist. That's it. Everyone else is a lower line winger.

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05-12-2017, 03:58 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by OkimLom View Post
Oh come on, Eichel isn't some scrub.

The better argument to makes is that Dras was used and best suited to play the wing position, which enhances his effectiveness. We have seen LD play center, and he played just as well as Reinhart plays wing. LD plays the wing position as well as Reinhart does play the center position.
"Playing wing" and "playing win for Dan Bylsma when you're Sam Reinhart" are not quite the same though.

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05-12-2017, 03:58 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
That's total crap. I listened myself, as did a bunch of others on the Botterill thread.

Exact words: You know, from what I've seen mostly of him I would say it's more from a wing standpoint but those are the decisions that you certainly work with the coaching staff and what I like about it is I think.

He's seen him on wing. Full stop.
Same meaning, different words. I understood him just like you did. He may or may not end up at Center.

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05-12-2017, 04:01 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Read earlier in the thread where I laid out how the 3 of the 4 teams still in the playoffs were running 3 scoring lines, with lesser wingers with their top centers.

The Pens forward core is Crosby, Kessel, Malkin, and Hornqvist. That's it. Everyone else is a lower line winger.
We don't have to copy them 1 to 1 lol I know what their core is. If we have 1 more elite flexible center (3 in total, 2 of which can switch to wing when needed), it won't hurt us I think. I think we can afford it as both G and D cores are cheaper than what Pens have (MAF, Letang vs Lehner, Risto). But anyway, I'd rather go for D or Wing offersheet anyway, I just put Drais as he's clearly elite and he is RFA

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Old
05-12-2017, 04:03 PM
  #32
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Roster Speculation 2017-18 Part 2

continued from here: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=2221577

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05-12-2017, 04:04 PM
  #33
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Any chance you could port over the last page and a half? Thanks!

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05-12-2017, 04:25 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CacOBG
Same meaning, different words. I understood him just like you did. He may or may not end up at Center.
It's not at all the same meaning. You're original, bolded mine:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CacOBG
On Reinhart, it's been clarified 3 times over what was said. Winger in his eyes for now, to be discussed with future coach and from what he sees further on... Not sure where that came from, but whatever.
Botterill said he's seen him playing winger, not sees him as a winger. HUGE difference.

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05-12-2017, 04:27 PM
  #35
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Any chance you could port over the last page and a half? Thanks!
Oh, sure, now that YOU don't have to do the work...

Moved everything from the last thread after post #1000.

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05-12-2017, 04:29 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by CacOBG View Post
We don't have to copy them 1 to 1 lol I know what their core is. If we have 1 more elite flexible center (3 in total, 2 of which can switch to wing when needed), it won't hurt us I think. I think we can afford it as both G and D cores are cheaper than what Pens have (MAF, Letang vs Lehner, Risto). But anyway, I'd rather go for D or Wing offersheet anyway, I just put Drais as he's clearly elite and he is RFA
So like Reinhart? Who we already have?

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05-12-2017, 04:30 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
It's not at all the same meaning. You're original, bolded mine:



Botterill said he's seen him playing winger, not sees him as a winger. HUGE difference.
Yeah bold only half of my statement and ignore 1/3 of the bolded part. Whatever.

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Old
05-12-2017, 04:38 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by CacOBG View Post
What I heard is he is open to the option if the compensation is right - not sure how you can interpret it in a different way. If you are saying our GM also lives in fantasyland OK, your choice. I'm not saying it's likely but this is a forum to discus...things that may or may not happen... roster "speculation". In this cased based on words coming from our new GM, sue me...

On Reinhart, it's been clarified 3 times over what was said. Winger in his eyes for now, to be discussed with future coach and from what he sees further on... Not sure where that came from, but whatever.
Here you go. The top part paragraph doesn't change the meaning of the second paragraph.

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05-12-2017, 04:40 PM
  #39
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How dumb is this idea...

Trade Reinhart for Hanifin and then offer sheet Draistle?

Talk about the massive waste of assets and a huge waste of cap space on an over rated Draistle here. Yes the guy is good but 9m worth good give me a break. This is classic the "grass is greener" and "what have you done for me now" syndrome, The work and ideas of a child playing NHL 17.

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05-12-2017, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by CacOBG View Post
We don't have to copy them 1 to 1 lol I know what their core is. If we have 1 more elite flexible center (3 in total, 2 of which can switch to wing when needed), it won't hurt us I think. I think we can afford it as both G and D cores are cheaper than what Pens have (MAF, Letang vs Lehner, Risto). But anyway, I'd rather go for D or Wing offersheet anyway, I just put Drais as he's clearly elite and he is RFA
Which team has three elite, flexible centers? That's what you want to build?

Sabres have a potentially elite center in Eichel, an all-star center in O'Reilly, and a potential all-star center in Reinhart. They're set up as well as you can get at center for a young, developing team.

You're shuffling chairs just to prove your argument.

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05-12-2017, 04:57 PM
  #41
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Oh, sure, now that YOU don't have to do the work...

Moved everything from the last thread after post #1000.
Feel free to tell them I now have time for buttons.

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05-12-2017, 04:59 PM
  #42
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Just tossing the word elite around...

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05-12-2017, 05:11 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Sabre the Win View Post
How dumb is this idea...

Trade Reinhart for Hanifin and then offer sheet Draistle?

Talk about the massive waste of assets and a huge waste of cap space on an over rated Draistle here. Yes the guy is good but 9m worth good give me a break. This is classic the "grass is greener" and "what have you done for me now" syndrome, The work and ideas of a child playing NHL 17.
So much this.The obsession with a handful of players and what it would take to get them aren't in line with reality.

The idea of lightening assets on fire and debilitating the franchise that already lacks organizational depth is a problem.

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05-12-2017, 05:20 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by CacOBG View Post
What I heard is he is open to the option if the compensation is right - not sure how you can interpret it in a different way. If you are saying our GM also lives in fantasyland OK, your choice. I'm not saying it's likely but this is a forum to discus...things that may or may not happen... roster "speculation". In this cased based on words coming from our new GM, sue me...
I heard our GM and listened to the totality of his comments. Its why I said you were in fantasyland because nothing he said lines up with your ideas. Its fairly obvious he will not be looking to make absurdly high offer sheets. He may look to value adds on offer sheets. Meaning teams in a bind with the cap not willing to match an offersheet to mid range guy. Those situations would be such that huge overpayment contracts wouldn't be needed to make the offer work. But generally Botterill sounded like most GMs about offer sheets. They see its a tool that can be used but realize its hard to make it work form a value pov.




Quote:
On Reinhart, it's been clarified 3 times over what was said. Winger in his eyes for now, to be discussed with future coach and from what he sees further on... Not sure where that came from, but whatever.
If its been clarified 3x why do you still have it wrong

He's (visually) mostly seen Sam play wing in the NHL. Where he plays will be decided by the coach. You keep arguing Botterill thinks he is a winger right now. That unless the coach decides to change that he is a winger. Thats not what he said though..

Botterill also said on WGR that he likes Sam's ability to play center and wing. It gives the team flexibility. Quite obviously he views him as a player that can play both and not simply as a "winger for now".

Like I said, you heard what you wanted to (Sam is just a winger to Botterill!!!!) and started running with it (trade him for Hanifin!!!!). You started not long after he spoke those words in his initial presser.



I'm frankly amazed anyone could listen to Botterill speak for any length of time and come away with the thoughts you have on the direction he will take.


Last edited by joshjull: 05-12-2017 at 05:29 PM.
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Old
05-12-2017, 06:16 PM
  #45
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I heard our GM and listened to the totality of his comments. Its why I said you were in fantasyland because nothing he said lines up with your ideas. Its fairly obvious he will not be looking to make absurdly high offer sheets. He may look to value adds on offer sheets. Meaning teams in a bind with the cap not willing to match an offersheet to mid range guy. Those situations would be such that huge overpayment contracts wouldn't be needed to make the offer work. But generally Botterill sounded like most GMs about offer sheets. They see its a tool that can be used but realize its hard to make it work form a value pov.






If its been clarified 3x why do you still have it wrong

He's (visually) mostly seen Sam play wing in the NHL. Where he plays will be decided by the coach. You keep arguing Botterill thinks he is a winger right now. That unless the coach decides to change that he is a winger. Thats not what he said though..

Botterill also said on WGR that he likes Sam's ability to play center and wing. It gives the team flexibility. Quite obviously he views him as a player that can play both and not simply as a "winger for now".

Like I said, you heard what you wanted to (Sam is just a winger to Botterill!!!!) and started running with it (trade him for Hanifin!!!!). You started not long after he spoke those words in his initial presser.



I'm frankly amazed anyone could listen to Botterill speak for any length of time and come away with the thoughts you have on the direction he will take.
Nonsense, the topic of Reinhart for Hanifin was started days before Botts was appointed? o0

And no, I have no clue what direction he will take, he probably doesn't either as he doesn't know our roster well. I'm impressed you do somehow. In fact great that you do. All I did was listed a bunch of RFAs that we in theory could offer sheet with an open question what does everyone think (as a topic of discussion Botts talked about as 1 possibility today) and everyone focused on Draisaitl...never mind he was one in a list of about 20 I listed, many of which are much lower profile and much more realistic...

Keep blaming me that I read/listen thinks the way I want...you seem to do it, rather than me. I never said Botts has him as winger once and forever, but yeah keep turning my words - you obviously know better than me how I have understood his words. I'm not gonna bother responding to personal attacks from now on, feel free to pile on and make up stuff.

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Old
05-12-2017, 06:23 PM
  #46
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So like Reinhart? Who we already have?
Ask any neutral if they consider Draisaitl and Reinhart in the same league right now and as potential, collect some answers and then we can revisit this conversation. Until then, I won't bother going further cause you will say what you think and I will say what I think, which leads to nothing.

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Old
05-12-2017, 06:30 PM
  #47
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You know you're appealing to authority of the site that voted Adam Larsson as a better defenseman than Anton Stralman, right?

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05-12-2017, 06:32 PM
  #48
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You know you're appealing to authority of the site that voted Adam Larsson as a better defenseman than Anton Stralman, right?
I didn't say on here, collect it from whereve you want as long as its neutral

And yeah if that really happened, but who knows, maybe someday...miracles happen!

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05-12-2017, 06:34 PM
  #49
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It's hard to evaluate Reinhart vs Drai when Reinhart has not been put in a position to succeed (center) and Drai has (wing)

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05-12-2017, 07:08 PM
  #50
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It's hard to evaluate Reinhart vs Drai when Reinhart has not been put in a position to succeed (center) and Drai has (wing)
I understand there's some argument in that, but to a large extend I consider this an excuse more than anything else. Both are natural centers and both played the majority so far on the wing with stud superstars alongside them, 1 impressed the league, the other has done OK but has not wow-ed almost anyone that is neutral it seem (even our freaking brand new GM did not mention him as a core piece until he was specifically asked about him...).

I know it's early for redrafts and such, but most people would normally have Drais as 1-2 with Ekblad now while Sam falls in the 5 to 7 range. Yes, things could change with the change of management and play style in our organization, but unlikely for me personally based on their current play to reverse this completely.

...

It was definitely not my intention to turn potential offer sheet candidates into Sam vs Draisaitl lol Would gladly move to discussing any other lower profile candidate that won't put is in much more challenging cap position just so that I don't have to debate Sam Reinhart 's status

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