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Roster Speculation 2017-18 Part 2

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Old
05-12-2017, 07:43 PM
  #51
joshjull
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CacOBG View Post
Nonsense, the topic of Reinhart for Hanifin was started days before Botts was appointed? o0
Of course the talk has been around for awhile.

I'm saying as soon as you thought Botterill felt Sam was a wing you started immediately proposing Sam for Hanifin in that thread.



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And no, I have no clue what direction he will take, he probably doesn't either as he doesn't know our roster well. I'm impressed you do somehow. In fact great that you do. All I did was listed a bunch of RFAs that we in theory could offer sheet with an open question what does everyone think (as a topic of discussion Botts talked about as 1 possibility today) and everyone focused on Draisaitl...never mind he was one in a list of about 20 I listed, many of which are much lower profile and much more realistic...

Give me a break. I don't know what specific moves he will make. But I can make some educated guesses on the general approach he will take based on his interviews. I'm also fairly confident he has a general idea what he wants to do even if the specific moves aren't on the tip of his tongue.

Draisaitl was my focus because he was driving the conversation at the time.

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Keep blaming me that I read/listen thinks the way I want...you seem to do it, rather than me. I never said Botts has him as winger once and forever, but yeah keep turning my words - you obviously know better than me how I have understood his words. I'm not gonna bother responding to personal attacks from now on, feel free to pile on and make up stuff.
I don't even know what this word salad means.

I know you never said Botterill has him as a winger once and forever. But was I wrong to say you feel Botterill has him as a just winger right now? If so, then I'm open to being corrected


Last edited by joshjull: 05-12-2017 at 07:56 PM.
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05-12-2017, 08:13 PM
  #52
Workensons
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I hope Botterill sees the value in keeping Sam around. I like the player a lot and want him to be a key part of a winning team. Knowing he has no connection to any player on this team makes me a bit nervous. Ultimately I support any move that improves the team but there are a handful of players I think should be here.

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05-12-2017, 08:18 PM
  #53
Der Jaeger
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GMJB (paraphrase): I've only seen Reinhart at wing. We'll let the coaches decide where he plays. I like guys who can play center and wing.

OMG he thinkz Reinhart is a wing, trade for Hanifin now!!!!!

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05-12-2017, 09:12 PM
  #54
La Cosa Nostra
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If we could add Draisaitl in the second highest RFA tier (the 2 1sts one) and move Reinhart for Hanifin I'd be all over it.

And the Sabres locker room was upset when we signed Leino and Ehrhoff? So what did they do when we signed Okposo? Who makes only 2.5 mil less AAV then Ehrhoff and Leino combined did. If a locker room full of millionaires were upset that the team brought in free agents to try and improve then that's on the mentally weak locker room. I'm all for the Sabres getting better. offer sheeting Draisaitl is a fun idea but highly unlikely. But anyone who doesn't think it won't make us a much better team is in denial. Draisaitl had a better ppg then Eichel. Yeah yeah McDavid sure McDavid was the only reason Draisaitl put up nearly a ppg

Explain the playoffs when McDavid damn near disappeared and Draisaitl played like Malkin? I was extremely impressed with Draisaitls post season. No one can say McDavid padded his stats in the playoffs because Draisaitl was infinitely better this playoffs. Does Draisaitl get his numbers padded a little bit playing with McDavid? Sure. Is he still a high end forward on his own and in an unbiased opinion better then Reinhart? Yes he is. Sam Reinhart is not putting up 77 points this past season playing with McDavid, sorry.

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05-13-2017, 01:44 AM
  #55
CacOBG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Workensons View Post
I hope Botterill sees the value in keeping Sam around. I like the player a lot and want him to be a key part of a winning team. Knowing he has no connection to any player on this team makes me a bit nervous. Ultimately I support any move that improves the team but there are a handful of players I think should be here.
How is thay scary? I love it, he will make independent assessment of who should stay and who has the trade value to improve our team. As he said, he will pick up the phone and ask all GMs what deals are of interest. If he considers a deal improces our team, I hope he does pull the trigger. Not being linked to our draft picks and having to justify his choices is the best thing about having a new GM in general. Whoever goes on the chopping board likely deserves it - as he said he will look at tape, speak to staff and look at analytical data. What more do you want? This is perfect IMO. I thought according to you guys Reinharts analytical data compares very well to the rest, so why would he trade him away?

Also La Casa Nostra +1 on the above post on everythingnyou said including that is highly unlikely to actually happen

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05-13-2017, 02:10 AM
  #56
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I just think offer sheeting Draisaitl at 9.39 x 5 is a great idea for several reasons.

First and foremost is revenge. Even if it's been exactly ten years, no Sabre fan should forget what the Oilers did to Buffalo. The Vanek offer sheet, right in the midst of us losing both co Caps was devastating. We were forced to match the 7/50 deal. Imagine if Vanek wasn't forced to be paid 7.14 mil right off the bat. Imagine a bridge deal which allowed us to bring in another talented player in free agency. Instead we were forced to pay superstar money at the time to a player who frankly didn't quite deserve it right away. Draisaitl is better then Vanek at the time and he also is/can play center. A natural center playing wing putting up a near ppg in today's low scoring era? Sounds great. Imagine a Draisaitl-Eichel-Nylander line. That could be one of the best in the league, for literally a decade.

Second, in the second highest draft compensation tier, who isn't trading 2 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd for Draisaitl? Who wouldn't have given up Nylander, plus Asplund, a third and this years #8 for Draisaitl? Everyone would easily. Draisaitl is 21. He's not even in his prime yet. Imagine locking up Eichel for ~8 mil on 7/1/17 then if Draisaitl is still unsigned in early July, sending him the offer sheet. The Oilers are forced to match or lose a budding superstar. Signing Draisaitl for 2 1sts, 2nd and 3rd is an easy move. Adding Draisaitl not only upgrades the forward corps it allows us to move Reinhart for Hanifin.

Draisaitl-Eichel-Tippett/Glass etc
Nylander-RoR-Okposo
Carrier-Larsson-Bailey/Baptiste

That's a top 9 I could get behind long term. Especially when it means our blue line has Risto, Hanifin, McCAbe and Guhle in it. And of course Draisaitl is a natural center who actually is somewhat competent at taking draws. In a few years we can slide Draisaitl into the 2C role and put RoR on Eichels wing. And the top 4 of Hanifin,Risto,McCAbe and Guhle is very solid. Not to mention if we add Draisaitl that allows us to move Kane in a trade for a dman.

Like I said highly unlikely but it's something Botterill should definitely look into. Signing Drai and moving Reinhart for Hanifin also doesn't preclude us from rolling with 3 stud centers. Simply put Draisaitl in Reinharts spot. At the very least it's forcing Edmonton to pay McDavid and Draisaitl 20-22 million. Like I said I still am seething over the Vanek OS even ten years later. Would be nice to give some pay back. Not to mention it makes us significantly better. A forward corps that includes Eichel, Draisaitl, RoR,Okposo, Nylander and a potential forward with our 2017 1st? Yeah, that's a cup worthy offense. Not to mention it literally allows us to finally acquire our long coveted top pairing LHD in Hanifin. Moving Reinhart for Hanifin becomes a no brainer when you not only replace Reinhart but upgrade him. It's nice to imagine such fantasy. It's also something interesting to talk about instead of hearing our same regurgitation of our possible lineup of Kane for a dman and then the same old lineup possibilities

Again, I have to say it again since some people get offended at such talk...it's highly unlikely bordering on impossible. Yet it's very interesting to talk about. And before anyone gets up in arms about adding another high end center, last time I checked when was it a bad thing to have 3 stud centers? Especially when two of them have proven to be able to play wing on a top line?

What sealed me on Draisaitl was his playoffs. 16 points in 13 games?! When McDavid was well under a ppg? Draisaitl nearly DOUBLED McDavids playoff output. If that doesn't sell you on Draisaitl nothing will. Anyone who thinks as of today that Sam Reinhart even is comparable to Draisaitl is simply in dreamland or Sabre homer land. Again, Draisaitl looked like a 21 year old version of Malkin in these playoffs. Imagining him on the Sabres is very exciting. And hell, adding Draisaitl doesn't even mean we have to move Reinhart. We can still keep Reinhart and just use free agency, #8 and Kane as the trade pieces for D help. Botterill is the cap master. If anyone can make it work he can. As long as we moved out the Gorges, Ennis, Moulson and Bogos of the team and then move Okposo when guys like Nylander, McCAbe, etc need new deals then it's very doable.

And to mention it again, did I say I wanted to enact payback on the Oilers?

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05-13-2017, 02:25 AM
  #57
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I still think 9.39 is too much for Drais as Eichel will at least have to match it. 8.75 would be my ceiling, but that works for me whether Edmonton matches it or not - they either have to spend their cap or give us their second best player. At one point these 0.75 mil start to matter. I do believe jack would be pissed off if we give Drais more than we give him so Eich's contract would also have to be at least 8.75 and signed before Drais if you intend on doing this offer sheet. Eichel is no Crosby who seems fully OK to be earning less than Malkin and I don't want *****y Jack

If he stays with them IMO long term they have theoretical bette 1-2-3 punch than us Eichel-ROR-Reinhart is very likely not as good as McJesus-Drais-RNH in like 2-3 years time if all these players are playing C.

I am really interested at what point St Louis doesn't match on Parayko, D in his position have recently not gone much above 6 mil. If you offer sheet in the 8 mil range, what do they do? It's not like they have terrible D without him...but would have liked our chances better with Shattenkirk still there.

Dobberhockey has him at 5 mil which is Risto money, so I can see a Tier 2 off sheet going unmatched and them taking the compensation as some probability:
http://www.dobberhockey.com/hockey-h...enseman-class/

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05-13-2017, 02:29 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La Cosa Nostra View Post
First and foremost is revenge. Even if it's been exactly ten years, no Sabre fan should forget what the Oilers did to Buffalo.
They tried to give us 4 1sts for Vanek. It's not their fault our GM panicked.

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05-13-2017, 02:43 AM
  #59
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I have this weird feeling Botterill trades for MAF.

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05-13-2017, 02:51 AM
  #60
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I have this weird feeling Botterill trades for MAF.
MAF over Lehner any day. If it doesn't come at a massive cost and is relatively short term, not the worst thing in the world that Botts can do. I'd also explore if I can get anything back for Lehner in a trade as his good numbers may deceive some team that he is actually good Maybe even Lehner going back as their backup on a cheaper contract than MAF currently... I know they have Murray but I don't know if they can rely on him yet going full season + long playoff run so I don't think they would be opposed to having a good 1B that I consider Lehner to be.

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05-13-2017, 02:56 AM
  #61
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Draisaitl is coming nowhere near buffalo unless the oilers are in town. The offersheet talk about this time every year makes me cringe.

Aladyyn... Going back to the last thread & your 5th best player comment... You're crazy.

Leon D would become the Sabres best player instantly on current form with eichel the only one likely to surpass him. Guy is a beast & quite clearly the best player out of that draft at this point in time.

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05-13-2017, 04:10 AM
  #62
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I have this weird feeling Botterill trades for MAF.
With two years left on his deal... maybe it's not terrible. Giving up anything of value for him would be awful though.

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05-13-2017, 05:18 AM
  #63
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Fleury wouldnt cost a ton since they are basically gonna loss him for nothing.

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05-13-2017, 05:30 AM
  #64
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Fleury wouldnt cost a ton since they are basically gonna loss him for nothing.
I assume Pitt has to add something tiny (like 3rd rounder or secondary prospect?) in a theoretical Lehner for MAF trade, right? Just purely for the cap difference as I assume Lehner will be much cheaper when re-signed and also is younger.

Obviously that's assuming both Fleury and Ullmark are not picked up in the draft (which I find a bit unlikely). I wouldn't trade Lehner away for Fleury if we don't have a young goalie like Ullmark in the system that has potential to become started in 2-3 years time.

Do we want to have both MAF and Lehner in the roster? My personal feeling is to say no to this as I want to see Ullmark as back up.

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05-13-2017, 06:11 AM
  #65
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I have this weird feeling Botterill trades for MAF.
Not weird. I'd say better then 50/50 it happens.

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05-13-2017, 06:24 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin View Post
Draisaitl is coming nowhere near buffalo unless the oilers are in town. The offersheet talk about this time every year makes me cringe.

Aladyyn... Going back to the last thread & your 5th best player comment... You're crazy.

Leon D would become the Sabres best player instantly on current form with eichel the only one likely to surpass him. Guy is a beast & quite clearly the best player out of that draft at this point in time.
And you're calling ME crazy?

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05-13-2017, 06:39 AM
  #67
CacOBG
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And you're calling ME crazy?
Neither best, nor 5th best... so you both crazy or what?

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05-13-2017, 07:44 AM
  #68
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Not opposed at all at getting rid of Lehner. He screams locker room problem. Send him to Calgary and acquire MAF for cheap until Petersen/Ullmark emerges. Steve mason is a ufa as well

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05-13-2017, 07:47 AM
  #69
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How does Lehner "scream" locker room problem?

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05-13-2017, 07:50 AM
  #70
CacOBG
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To me he screams "I can't save a shootout attempt" which is kinda embarrassing if you will rely on this guy to get you the cup some day.

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05-13-2017, 08:09 AM
  #71
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To me he screams "I can't save a shootout attempt" which is kinda embarrassing if you will rely on this guy to get you the cup some day.
Point 1, don't get yourself into shootouts.

Point 2, there are no shootouts in playoffs

With that said, I don't like Lehner personally, and I'm someone who supported the trade idea from Murray. Right move, wrong guy.

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05-13-2017, 08:11 AM
  #72
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Point 1, don't get yourself into shootouts.

Point 2, there are no shootouts in playoffs

With that said, I don't like Lehner personally, and I'm someone who supported the trade idea from Murray. Right move, wrong guy.
If he can't save a bloody shootout attempt all season, I don't trust him to carry a team through the playoffs. Mentally weak. No thanks, cut your losses and move on. I wasn't against it when they made the trade, but now I'd rather trade him if he has some value in him (not sure). Plenty of competent, not hard to obtain goalies in the league to be stuck with him long term.

Edit: Really keen on Grubauer if he can be had for cheap. Give them 1A/1B status with Ullmark and see who turns out the better goalie (I assume it would be Grubauer but you never know). I honestly think he is better G than Lehner.

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05-13-2017, 08:17 AM
  #73
Jame
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Fleury has a modified NTC

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Old
05-13-2017, 08:23 AM
  #74
CacOBG
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Fleury has a modified NTC
Well, I assume they will work something out as otherwise he'll be exposed to Vegas who likely pick him up. I doubt he prefers Vegas/backup in Pitt to starter Buffalo under GM he knows well.

I doubt he screws up Pittsburgh by refusing to waive and they have to expose Murray after so many years of him being paid well by the organization and winning silverware there due to a great team in front of him. Doesn't strike me as that kind of guy.

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05-13-2017, 08:26 AM
  #75
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No interest in a $5.75M a year goalie. Lehner at $4M and Ullmark are fine. I hope Ullmark plays at least as well as Lehner and I think that's a possibility.

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