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Roster Speculation 2017-18 Part 2

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Old
05-13-2017, 11:56 AM
  #101
Der Jaeger
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Originally Posted by CacOBG View Post
We could in theory trade for him before the expansion draft, then it will be hard for them to pick him. I don't know, just throwing poo at the wall and see what sticks But Lehner has not inspired confidence in me when I watch him most of the time. Yes, he has some solid games, but the shootouts, the juicy rebounds, the soft untimely goals, the mental lapses, the slow-mo movement post to post sometimes... just not a fan of him and it's not some sort of bias as I did not have any pre-set expecations based on the trade. Too big and slow IMO (yeah, yeah, I know size also has advantages...).

EDIT: As long as we get back for him in trade what we trade away to get some veteran or other young replacement, I'm happy. Don't think its reasonable to waste more assets on G right now.
Why grasp for replacements for Lehner, who is a competent starting goalie, when the team has really good prospects in the wings?

Spend assets to protect Ullmark instead. The guy is on track to be a starting goalie. And Petersen looks like he's a future starting goalie.

Make a small protection trade for Ullmark, then let the dust settle from the expansion draft, and see what Petersen decides to do. Then make some choices.

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05-13-2017, 11:59 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Why grasp for replacements for Lehner, who is a competent starting goalie, when the team has really good prospects in the wings?

Spend assets to protect Ullmark instead. The guy is on track to be a starting goalie. And Petersen looks like he's a future starting goalie.

Make a small protection trade for Ullmark, then let the dust settle from the expansion draft, and see what Petersen decides to do. Then make some choices.
I'd rather get some trade value out of Lehner, protect Ullmark to make sure and then get someone in after the expansion draft to work alongside Ullmark in 1A/1B if young G or a vet cheap player like MAF as a starter and Ullmark remains backup. Now, whether there is a team that would trade for Lehner prior to the draft, I haven't actually bothered to have a deep look at roster and contracts.

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05-13-2017, 12:07 PM
  #103
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I had this idea to move up to 3OA and Im not sure exactly how it completely works out but we could essentially help Dallas in a big way and not have to pay much for it except give 8OA.

With Dallas being in a bind cap wise since Lehtonen and Niemi are being paid more than Bishop, both have a NMC. Dallas being desperate then we take Niemi off their hands as a cap dump with one year left and untie their hands with the forced protection.

All we give up for this is 8OA and maybe some depth AHL guy. It adds a backup for this year and adds competition for Lehner depending on what Lehner's agent is asking, if more than 4 mil AAV then you can expose Lehner to proctect Ullmark and roll with Niemi for one year. We move up to 3OA and get our guy.

EDIT: We could even move on from Lehner, I believe Niemi could bounce back. He's only posted 2.5 GAA's over his career which is very serviceable except for last year. He could rebound for us in a nice way.


Last edited by Sabre the Win: 05-13-2017 at 12:18 PM.
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05-13-2017, 12:18 PM
  #104
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I had this idea to move up to 3OA and Im not sure exactly how it completely works out but we could essentially help Dallas in a big way and not have to pay much for it except give 8OA.

With Dallas being in a bind cap wise since Lehtonen and Niemi are being paid more than Bishop, both have a NMC. Dallas being desperate then we take Niemi off their hands as a cap dump with one year left and untie their hands with the forced protection.

All we give up for this is 8OA and maybe some depth AHL guy. It adds a backup for this year and adds competition for Lehner depending on what Lehner's agent is asking, if more than 4 mil AAV then you can expose Lehner to proctect Ullmark and roll with Niemi for one year. We move up to 3OA and get our guy.
We will have to add more, they can just buy him out I think. I think Niemi+3OA for 8OA+Buf 2nd+secondary prospect (Bailey, Baptiste, Pu or something like that, depending if they want C or Wing) can work. From what I've read about that Miro lad, I'd do it. Niemi for 1 year doesn't hurt us in any way and a 2nd a prospect to move from 8 to 3 is perfectly OK for me.

I am certainly not in favor with rolling with Niemi, if Lehner wants too much salary for what he does, trade his ass out and get someone else cheap or at least better than him in.

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05-13-2017, 12:20 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by CacOBG View Post
We will have to add more, they can just buy him out I think. I think Niemi+3OA for 8OA+Buf 2nd+secondary prospect (Bailey, Baptiste, Pu or something like that, depending if they want C or Wing) can work. From what I've read about that Miro lad, I'd do it. Niemi for 1 year doesn't hurt us in any way and a 2nd a prospect to move from 8 to 3 is perfectly OK for me.
Why would they buy out Niemi over Lehtonen? Lehtonen hits at 5.9 while Niemi hits at 4.5

We clearly dont need to add ANY to that since we are already adding value by freeing them of a forced protection goalie and taking a cap dump to free them cap space. If they need a player coming back give them a career AHLer or give them Kasdorf which frees a spot in Rochester. Niemi at 4.5 is realistically less than what Lehner should get but probably around what Lehner will demand.

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05-13-2017, 12:20 PM
  #106
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05-13-2017, 12:22 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Sabre the Win View Post
Why would they buy out Niemi over Lehtonen? Lehtonen hits at 5.9 while Niemi hits at 4.5

We clearly dont need to add ANY to that since we are already adding value by freeing them of a forced protection goalie and taking a cap dump to free them cap space.
Well, regardless, Im fine with adding a 2nd if we need to. If it's even cheaper than that, it's fine by me. I don't have an issue with the concept of the trade based on reports on Miro H as I doubt Makar slides to 8th for consolation pick.

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05-13-2017, 12:23 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Why grasp for replacements for Lehner, who is a competent starting goalie, when the team has really good prospects in the wings?

Spend assets to protect Ullmark instead. The guy is on track to be a starting goalie. And Petersen looks like he's a future starting goalie.

Make a small protection trade for Ullmark, then let the dust settle from the expansion draft, and see what Petersen decides to do. Then make some choices.
It's all part of his Botterill goes bonkers plan. Offersheets, more than one goalie trade and now moving up in the draft. Hang on for the mad ride.

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05-13-2017, 12:31 PM
  #109
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It's all part of his Botterill goes bonkers plan. Offersheets, more than one goalie trade and now moving up in the draft. Hang on for the mad ride.
Where did I say he will do all of that? Goalies, draft, expansion draft, Reinhart value trade, offer sheets... trades on any of these can happen independently of each other, who says all of them materialize. It's a speculation thread. We speculate what can be done in different areas of the team. Maybe there are 0 moves made, that's again speculation... If speculation is not allowed close the thread maybe or something?

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05-13-2017, 12:53 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by CacOBG View Post
I'd rather get some trade value out of Lehner, protect Ullmark to make sure and then get someone in after the expansion draft to work alongside Ullmark in 1A/1B if young G or a vet cheap player like MAF as a starter and Ullmark remains backup. Now, whether there is a team that would trade for Lehner prior to the draft, I haven't actually bothered to have a deep look at roster and contracts.
Ullmark has yet to establish himself at the AHL level. But you've pencilled him in as at least a 1B on the NHL team?

If you view Ullmark as the better option over Lehner in the long term that's fine. But why do you think our new GM would go into the season with him as one of our two goalies? A GM who is big on development and making sure players are ready.

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05-13-2017, 12:54 PM
  #111
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I don't get the MAF talk. He was 18-10-7 with 3.02 GAA and .909 save % in the regular season. He's been money in the playoffs (so far), but I don't think he's even a short term solution for the Sabres.
Culture. Familiar with GM. Short term, letting a Peterson/Ullmark step in when ready and learn under a guy who's done it all.

This snip from Jake Guentzel's article on Player's Tribune speaks to the culture part:


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05-13-2017, 01:07 PM
  #112
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Where did I say he will do all of that? Goalies, draft, expansion draft, Reinhart value trade, offer sheets... trades on any of these can happen independently of each other, who says all of them materialize. It's a speculation thread. We speculate what can be done in different areas of the team. Maybe there are 0 moves made, that's again speculation... If speculation is not allowed close the thread maybe or something?
Its the roster speculation thread which includes debate and criticisms of the speculation made.


Last edited by joshjull: 05-13-2017 at 01:15 PM.
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05-13-2017, 01:20 PM
  #113
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I have to think Lehner's shoot out issues are mental. Get a sports psychologist to work with him. Maybe that gets him through it.
Gee, who do we know who is close to a good sports psychologist? Heh.



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05-13-2017, 01:23 PM
  #114
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The thing is Botts has been responsible for managing tough cap situation in Pittsbrgh for years and they got the cup last year and have a good shot this year again. I don't think as long as any OS is under 9 mil, it's any harder to manage than what he had in Pittsburgh. Even though I'd rather we go after a D or scoring winger via OS as theese will be much cheaper in compensation and cap compared to Drais - the RFA class is really good this year IMO.
Draisatl better turn into Malkin for it to be worth this kind of picks and cash. If he comes short and has a good career as a Kopitar/Tavares level of guy, you just screwed yourself.

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05-13-2017, 01:39 PM
  #115
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Draisatl better turn into Malkin for it to be worth this kind of picks and cash. If he comes short and has a good career as a Kopitar/Tavares level of guy, you just screwed yourself.
Botterill was asked by Howard and Jeremy why more players don't get signed to offer sheets and Jason said it's because teams don't want to give up all the picks and they figure that the other team will match.

I don't see Botterill giving up a boatload of picks to steal a big money RFA.

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05-13-2017, 01:55 PM
  #116
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Gee, who do we know who is close to a good sports psychologist? Heh.


I can't see the picture

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05-13-2017, 02:04 PM
  #117
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I'd rather get some trade value out of Lehner, protect Ullmark to make sure and then get someone in after the expansion draft to work alongside Ullmark in 1A/1B if young G or a vet cheap player like MAF as a starter and Ullmark remains backup. Now, whether there is a team that would trade for Lehner prior to the draft, I haven't actually bothered to have a deep look at roster and contracts.
See below.

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It's all part of his Botterill goes bonkers plan. Offersheets, more than one goalie trade and now moving up in the draft. Hang on for the mad ride.
Regarding CacOGB's plans, that's what you do when you get NHL 17, and you change the Sabres to be the way you want.

Real NHL teams who win make one big move, tops. Like trading for Kessel or Subban. Nashville had two, but that's rare.

Mostly, teams get tweeked. Bring in Hagelin, Schultz. Let youth develop. That's how winning teams are built.

Mike Milbury used to make the wild and crazy moves repeatedly. And it didn't work.

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05-13-2017, 02:14 PM
  #118
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I can't see the picture
Is it because Botterill's head can blot out the sun?

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05-13-2017, 02:15 PM
  #119
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Is it because Botterill's head can blot out the sun?
Possibly



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05-13-2017, 02:22 PM
  #120
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See below.



Regarding CacOGB's plans, that's what you do when you get NHL 17, and you change the Sabres to be the way you want.

Real NHL teams who win make one big move, tops. Like trading for Kessel or Subban. Nashville had two, but that's rare.

Mostly, teams get tweeked. Bring in Hagelin, Schultz. Let youth develop. That's how winning teams are built.

Mike Milbury used to make the wild and crazy moves repeatedly. And it didn't work.
Outside of a possible mid sized to big move for a dman. I'm expecting some NHL depth acquisitions via moneyball-ish type moves. Either finding undervalued/underutilized players or ones that are overpaid on short deals that can be acquired for less assets because of it.

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05-13-2017, 02:28 PM
  #121
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So Eklund is stating the Sabres have decided to move on from Kane and lists Vegas, St. Louis and the Kings as options.

With Pegula's emphasis on character I don't envision Kane being here.

I'll play the fantasy GM game. Vegas gets Brodin in the expansion draft. Sabres deal Kane, 2nd round pick and 8th OA to Vegas for Brodin and 6th OA. Sabres move ahead of Arizona and draft Makar if still there and gets a young partner for Risto in Brodin. Vegas extends Kane and adds a rockstar persona to sell in Vegas.

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05-13-2017, 02:38 PM
  #122
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Outside of a possible mid sized to big move for a dman. I'm expecting some NHL depth acquisitions via moneyball-ish type moves. Either finding undervalued/underutilized players or ones that are overpaid on short deals that can be acquired for less assets because of it.
Me too. I'm expecting Kane for a defenseman. The names from there onward that I think GMJB looks at are players like Hainsey via free agency, trading for de Haan if he moves to Vegas, and signing Antipin.

From that point, he'll be looking to develop the players the team has.

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05-13-2017, 05:34 PM
  #123
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So Eklund is stating the Sabres have decided to move on from Kane and lists Vegas, St. Louis and the Kings as options.

With Pegula's emphasis on character I don't envision Kane being here.

I'll play the fantasy GM game. Vegas gets Brodin in the expansion draft. Sabres deal Kane, 2nd round pick and 8th OA to Vegas for Brodin and 6th OA. Sabres move ahead of Arizona and draft Makar if still there and gets a young partner for Risto in Brodin. Vegas extends Kane and adds a rockstar persona to sell in Vegas.
The Sabres solve their immediate and long term issues on the blueline and all it cost was Kane and a 2nd


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05-13-2017, 05:40 PM
  #124
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So Eklund is stating the Sabres have decided to move on from Kane and lists Vegas, St. Louis and the Kings as options.

With Pegula's emphasis on character I don't envision Kane being here.

I'll play the fantasy GM game. Vegas gets Brodin in the expansion draft. Sabres deal Kane, 2nd round pick and 8th OA to Vegas for Brodin and 6th OA. Sabres move ahead of Arizona and draft Makar if still there and gets a young partner for Risto in Brodin. Vegas extends Kane and adds a rockstar persona to sell in Vegas.
Where do I sign up for this?

I'd add, as well.

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05-13-2017, 05:49 PM
  #125
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So Eklund is stating the Sabres have decided to move on from Kane.
It's Saturday, and GMJB just did pressers all Thursday, so I'm sure this was something they figured out on Friday, in the midst of reaching decisions on all the other roster spots that you'd usually consider in the balance of things before making moves.

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