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Old
05-13-2017, 01:27 PM
  #51
Beendair Donedat
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Originally Posted by Belial View Post
I don't want to see Chucky at center at all, not the way he's playing right now.

Can he improve his two-way game? Maybe, but it's not looking good at all. Seems like he really lacks hockey IQ. Shouldn't take 6 years to learn basic positioning.

If we go with those 3 at center put Chucky on the second line and use that line in offensive situations as much as you can. But while it may work during the regular season we're going to get exposed in the PO.

Ideally, I would play him on the wing and don't get me wrong, I want him to play center but he just can't handle it defensively...
He wasn't given six years.

Desharnais was given six years to play center while Galchenyuk had to play wing. How was Desharnais defensively? Beyond awful. But hey he was French so he gets a pass.

Galchenyuk was a point per game center when he was actually allowed to play center and before he got hurt.

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Old
05-13-2017, 01:34 PM
  #52
Belial
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
Oh, just realized there was a post before mine about an Eberle/Pacioretty swap, that's not what I'm getting at at all. If Pacioretty is moved, it should be for a center or #2D. However, if Eberle is available without the team losing major offensive contributors, I'd be all for it.
Eberle is a RW, if Radulov resigns we're pretty much set on the right side...

I would like Hopkins though. That kid is underrated IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
You're also not winning with a soft in every zone, disappears every time the pressure is on left winger who only tries when he's playing ****** teams or the net is empty.
This is complete bs but even if it would be true you can get away with soft and defensively weak wingers while you can't do the same with a center.

The center position is crucial and a lot more important than the wingers.

Too bad we didn't have a real #1 in decades...

Andrei Kostitsyn instead of Ryan Getzlaf ! #TimminsGOAT

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Old
05-13-2017, 01:38 PM
  #53
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Sam Reihart
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Are more realistic options then Duchene, Tavares

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Old
05-13-2017, 01:47 PM
  #54
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Andrei Kostitsyn instead of Ryan Getzlaf ! #TimminsGOAT
Lots of teams picked the wrong guy ahead of Ryan Getzlaf, I bolded some of the more obvious ones for you. I count at least 12, you can even argue that all but Fleury and Staal are wrong. Nobody believes that you would have done better.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2003e.html

Pittsburgh Marc-Andre Fleury G
Carolina Eric Staal C
Florida Nathan Horton R
Columbus Nikolai Zherdev R
Buffalo Thomas Vanek R
San Jose Milan Michalek L
Nashville Ryan Suter D
Atlanta Braydon Coburn D
Calgary Dion Phaneuf D
Montreal Andrei Kostitsyn R
Philadelphia Jeff Carter C
NY Rangers Hugh Jessiman R
Los Angeles Dustin Brown R
Chicago Brent Seabrook D
NY Islanders Robert Nilsson C
San Jose Steve Bernier R
New Jersey Zach Parise L
Washington Eric Fehr R
Anaheim Ryan Getzlaf C


Last edited by DAChampion: 05-13-2017 at 01:54 PM.
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Old
05-13-2017, 01:50 PM
  #55
Watsatheo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post
Eberle is a RW, if Radulov resigns we're pretty much set on the right side...

I would like Hopkins though. That kid is underrated IMO.



This is complete bs but even if it would be true you can get away with soft and defensively weak wingers while you can't do the same with a center.

The center position is crucial and a lot more important than the wingers.

Too bad we didn't have a real #1 in decades...

Andrei Kostitsyn instead of Ryan Getzlaf ! #TimminsGOAT
Habs didn't bother trying to develop a center either. Welcome to 2013 when everyone was saying develop Galchenyuk as a C because there is none. Meanwhile people would defend him being brought as a W even though in no cases it helped him improve his game as a C.

Habs management can't deflect blame in others when they never bothered to put the effort to develop a top 6 C and took easy way out by riding the players they were left behind as long as they can.

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Old
05-13-2017, 02:08 PM
  #56
Belial
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
He wasn't given six years.

Desharnais was given six years to play center while Galchenyuk had to play wing. How was Desharnais defensively? Beyond awful. But hey he was French so he gets a pass.

Galchenyuk was a point per game center when he was actually allowed to play center and before he got hurt.
I would buy this excuse if Chucky would be good defensively on the wing but he's not! He's as bad on the wing as he is at center!

A rookie in Lehkonen and a guy that has 100 NHL games at center in Danault are Selke candidates compared to him...

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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Lots of teams picked the wrong guy ahead of Ryan Getzlaf, I bolded some of the more obvious ones for you. I count at least 12, you can even argue that all but Fleury and Staal are wrong. Nobody believes that you would have done better.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2003e.html

Pittsburgh Marc-Andre Fleury G
Carolina Eric Staal C
Florida Nathan Horton R
Columbus Nikolai Zherdev R
Buffalo Thomas Vanek R
San Jose Milan Michalek L
Nashville Ryan Suter D
Atlanta Braydon Coburn D
Calgary Dion Phaneuf D
Montreal Andrei Kostitsyn R
Philadelphia Jeff Carter C
NY Rangers Hugh Jessiman R
Los Angeles Dustin Brown R
Chicago Brent Seabrook D
NY Islanders Robert Nilsson C
San Jose Steve Bernier R
New Jersey Zach Parise L
Washington Eric Fehr R
Anaheim Ryan Getzlaf C
What's your point dude? Am I being paid big bucks to make those picks?

Jeff freaking Carter was picked just after we picked Kostitsyn. Please... It was an atrocious draft, I don't know what you're trying to prove here.

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Old
05-13-2017, 02:09 PM
  #57
JuJu Mobb
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Lots of teams picked the wrong guy ahead of Ryan Getzlaf, I bolded some of the more obvious ones for you. I count at least 12, you can even argue that all but Fleury and Staal are wrong. Nobody believes that you would have done better.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2003e.html

Pittsburgh Marc-Andre Fleury G
Carolina Eric Staal C
Florida Nathan Horton R
Columbus Nikolai Zherdev R
Buffalo Thomas Vanek R
San Jose Milan Michalek L
Nashville Ryan Suter D
Atlanta Braydon Coburn D
Calgary Dion Phaneuf D
Montreal Andrei Kostitsyn R
Philadelphia Jeff Carter C
NY Rangers Hugh Jessiman R
Los Angeles Dustin Brown R
Chicago Brent Seabrook D
NY Islanders Robert Nilsson C
San Jose Steve Bernier R
New Jersey Zach Parise L
Washington Eric Fehr R
Anaheim Ryan Getzlaf C
NY Rangers Hugh Jessiman R

What a waste.

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Old
05-13-2017, 02:16 PM
  #58
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by Belial View Post
I would buy this excuse if Chucky would be good defensively on the wing but he's not! He's as bad on the wing as he is at center!

A rookie in Lehkonen and a guy that has 100 NHL games at center in Danault are Selke candidates compared to him...



What's your point dude? Am I being paid big bucks to make those picks?

Jeff freaking Carter was picked just after we picked Kostitsyn. Please... It was an atrocious draft, I don't know what you're trying to prove here.
Your point is based off hindsight and luck.

By the way Lehkonen was developed in Sweden. Fact is Therrien and Lefebvre have not improved the defensive ability of a single young player.

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Old
05-13-2017, 02:25 PM
  #59
The Great Pateryn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post
What's your point dude? Am I being paid big bucks to make those picks?

Jeff freaking Carter was picked just after we picked Kostitsyn. Please... It was an atrocious draft, I don't know what you're trying to prove here.
You are not wrong with Timmins. He should be fired for making so many terrible picks. BUT, the greater problem is the AHL development team. NO prospects have come under Sly. NONE. You can't blame Timmins on that.

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Old
05-13-2017, 02:35 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
He wasn't given six years.

Desharnais was given six years to play center while Galchenyuk had to play wing. How was Desharnais defensively? Beyond awful. But hey he was French so he gets a pass.

Galchenyuk was a point per game center when he was actually allowed to play center and before he got hurt.
Agreed with you on everything except that non sense about DD being "french"... if people stopped obsessing for whatever reason about the french language, they would realize how much of a non factor it's been on the ice for several years now.

But, yes, somehow Galchenyuk should have learn to play responsible defensive hockey at center and win faceoffs without actually playing the position. It's total non sense and shows how unable to develop players MT and MB are.

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Old
05-13-2017, 02:36 PM
  #61
Belial
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Your point is based off hindsight and luck.

By the way Lehkonen was developed in Sweden. Fact is Therrien and Lefebvre have not improved the defensive ability of a single young player.
My point is based on what actually happened. I keep hearing Timmins is amazing while the guy nailed one draft in his whole career.

This organization lacks an elite center for decades and the best he could do in 14 years of drafting is Grabovski!!!

No my friend, the fact is that the only player that struggles mightily defensively in this whole organization is Galchenyuk!

And you with your biased glasses blame everything all the time on coaching/Bergevin and whoever and completely ignore the fact that the problem might be the player himself and not a developpement issue.

Who else in this organization is as clueless defensively as Chucky?

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Old
05-13-2017, 02:44 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by The Great Pateryn View Post
You are not wrong with Timmins. He should be fired for making so many terrible picks. BUT, the greater problem is the AHL development team. NO prospects have come under Sly. NONE. You can't blame Timmins on that.
We really haven't had any good prospects in the AHL, so as awful as our AHL teams have done it isn't like a better AHL coach would've made Leblanc, Tinordi or Beaulieu much better.. they just aren't good players. Hudon/Ghetto have performed in the AHL and Scherbak just had a pretty solid second pro year.

DLR and Big Mac have played well in the AHL, the issue with them is they both get bounced up and down between the minors and NHL whenever they start doing good.

Our drafting has been bad since 2008, we've had minimal players come up and help our team since then and on top of it we haven't developed assets that could've been used in trades.

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Old
05-13-2017, 02:45 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post
Who else in this organization is as clueless defensively as Chucky?
Can you name a player developed by Lefebvre and Therrien with better defensive ability than Galchenyuk?

No.

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05-13-2017, 02:52 PM
  #64
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Your point is based off hindsight and luck.

By the way Lehkonen was developed in Sweden. Fact is Therrien and Lefebvre have not improved the defensive ability of a single young player.
Gallagher?

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Old
05-13-2017, 02:53 PM
  #65
Respeck
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Can you name a player developed by Lefebvre and Therrien with better defensive ability than Galchenyuk?

No.
McCarron/De la Rose

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Old
05-13-2017, 02:55 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Can you name a player developed by Lefebvre and Therrien with better defensive ability than Galchenyuk?

No.
McCarron, Hudon, Andrighetto, DeLaRose.... that was pretty easy. Galchenyuk's poor play is as much on him as it is on Therrien. The simple answer might just be that it's not something that comes easy to him and maybe never will.

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05-13-2017, 03:00 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Respeck View Post
McCarron/De la Rose
Not really. De La Rose was not effective at NHL defense, and McCarron is -14 in 51 games playing on good regular season teams.

De La Rose is discussed as having tremendous defensive IQ and potential, but we have not seen this at the NHL.

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05-13-2017, 03:01 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
McCarron, Hudon, Andrighetto, DeLaRose.... that was pretty easy. Galchenyuk's poor play is as much on him as it is on Therrien. The simple answer might just be that it's not something that comes easy to him and maybe never will.
Hudon, with his five NHL games, are you serious?

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05-13-2017, 03:02 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Not really. De La Rose was not effective at NHL defense, and McCarron is -14 in 51 games playing on good regular season teams.
You honestly think Galchenyk is better defensively than DLR and McCarron?

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05-13-2017, 03:02 PM
  #70
DAChampion
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Gallagher?
Was developed externally just like Lehkonen.

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05-13-2017, 03:03 PM
  #71
The Great Pateryn
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McCarron/De la Rose
LMFAO, those guys are not NHL players

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Old
05-13-2017, 03:04 PM
  #72
Belial
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Can you name a player developed by Lefebvre and Therrien with better defensive ability than Galchenyuk?

No.
As other posters have mentioned pick them all, Gallagher, Ghetto, Hudon, BigMac, DLR, you can put Pacioretty in there as he improved a lot over the years when it comes to his two-way game...

I mean, no one is anywhere close to Chucky's level of struggle.

I would understand the criticism if at least it was recurrent but he's literally the only one that can't put it together.

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Old
05-13-2017, 03:05 PM
  #73
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Gallagher?
Gallagher played 36 games in the AHL. I doubt it had any effect on his development. Takes at least 1 season.

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Old
05-13-2017, 03:05 PM
  #74
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Hudon, with his five NHL games, are you serious?
Have you watched Hudon with the IceCaps or Bulldogs? He just about played better defence in junior than Galchenyuk does now.

DLR has done quite well defensively in the NHL. In his time with the Habs, he handled himself and his assignment well. He hasn't produced anything offensively. He is far from the huge minus Galchenyuk is defensively.

McCarron is better defensively as a winger than Galchenyuk. Neither are great defensively at center.

You're pretty far off base here.

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Old
05-13-2017, 03:07 PM
  #75
DAChampion
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You honestly think Galchenyk is better defensively than DLR and McCarron?
Galchenyuk is better. For example, his shots allowed per sixty in 2016 was 10% lower. His shots for, meanwhile, was nearly 50% higher.

Lefebvre and Therrien have never developed the defensive skills of a forward.

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