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Old
05-13-2017, 03:09 PM
  #76
The Great Pateryn
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Galchenyuk is nowhere near as bad defensively as you guys claim he is.

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05-13-2017, 03:11 PM
  #77
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edit

Did not read what i was replying to properly.

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Old
05-13-2017, 03:11 PM
  #78
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I feel Timmins should be let go, he has not made the best use of his picks,

so to get a strong farm, you need a good Head Scout, time for a change

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05-13-2017, 03:14 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by sampollock View Post
I feel Timmins should be let go, he has not made the best use of his picks,

so to get a strong farm, you need a good Head Scout, time for a change
you also need picks in the first 2 rounds, he didn't get a lot of those in the last 10 years

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Old
05-13-2017, 03:24 PM
  #80
DAChampion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Pateryn View Post
Galchenyuk is nowhere near as bad defensively as you guys claim he is.
Galchenyuk's bad, but it's hard to blame him as no forward has ever developed a strong defensive game under this management.

Jacob De La Rose is widely regarded as having tremendous talent and IQ for defense, but opponents shoot and score at will when he's on the ice.

As the saying goes, offense is due to talent, and defense can be taught, ... too bad you need a teacher.

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Old
05-13-2017, 03:25 PM
  #81
Belial
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Pateryn View Post
LMFAO, those guys are not NHL players
And it's actually sad that they're not even established yet in the NHL and are already better defensively than a guy that has already played 5 years in the league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaP View Post
Gallagher played 36 games in the AHL. I doubt it had any effect on his development. Takes at least 1 season.
He improved under Therrien even if people think this is impossible.

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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Galchenyuk is better. For example, his shots allowed per sixty in 2016 was 10% lower. His shots for, meanwhile, was nearly 50% higher.

Lefebvre and Therrien have never developed the defensivesive skills of a forward.
You're comparing apples and oranges. It doesn't take a lot of knowledge to perceive that BigMac and DLR have a lot more defensive awareness and positional consciousness than Chucky.

DLR was better than him at 18 years old! Therrien was getting wet watching him play, that good he was.

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05-13-2017, 03:26 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Belial View Post
DLR was better than him at 18 years old!
The reason you hear about DLR's defense a lot is that he has a lot of potential to be a great shutdown forward. Right now, both his SA/60 and GA/60 are putrid.

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Originally Posted by Belial View Post
Therrien was getting wet watching him play, that good he was.
Therrien's a moron so that's a moot point.

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Old
05-13-2017, 03:38 PM
  #83
LyricalLyricist
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Was developed externally just like Lehkonen.
No he wasn't. If he were then any player who doesn't play in NHL by 18-19 is 'externally developed'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaP View Post
Gallagher played 36 games in the AHL. I doubt it had any effect on his development. Takes at least 1 season.
He said Therrien as well, that includes NHL.

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Old
05-13-2017, 03:51 PM
  #84
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DLR is terrible offensively and defensively at the NHL level. The team plays in their own zone the whole time when he is on the ice. That is putrid.

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Old
05-13-2017, 03:59 PM
  #85
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To Colorado
Shea Weber + Nathan Beaulieu
To MTL
Duchesne + Barrie

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Old
05-13-2017, 04:02 PM
  #86
Belial
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Pateryn View Post
Galchenyuk is nowhere near as bad defensively as you guys claim he is.
Oh yes, he is.

The reason this might not be glaringly apparent is because he gets sheltered all the time and mainly used in offensive situations.

As soon as he gets caught in his own zone or there's an icing and the FO is in the defensive zone while he's on the ice his cluelessness is flagrant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The reason you hear about DLR's defense a lot is that he has a lot of potential to be a great shutdown forward. Right now, both his SA/60 and GA/60 are putrid.

Therrien's a moron so that's a moot point.
Your comparison is just skewed. DLR is very good defensively, he has a very strong understanding of the positional game and makes good reads in his own zone and all over the ice.

He gets hard minutes the whole game, his SA/60 and GA/60 are not comparable to someone who gets mainly easy minutes, Chucky with the same usage would be much worse.

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Old
05-13-2017, 04:19 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Uncle Gary View Post
DLR is terrible offensively and defensively at the NHL level. The team plays in their own zone the whole time when he is on the ice. That is putrid.
Can't really agree here. I remember fondly - yes fondly - a duo of Eller-DLR that would play puck possession and neatly circle the puck in the O zone. Scoring chances were minimal but at least no harm done. At least the benefit of wearing down the opponent.

Coming up on next season, who would you like better on the roster: Martinsen or DLR?

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Old
05-13-2017, 04:31 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by badi View Post
To Colorado
Shea Weber + Nathan Beaulieu
To MTL
Duchesne + Barrie
Sad to say but due to his age and contract, weber doesn't have much value. He won't be able to land us Duchene or Barrie.

That kind of deal was possible with Subban.


bergy is clueless.

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Old
05-13-2017, 04:34 PM
  #89
Lebowski
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Originally Posted by FazChenyuk View Post
Sad to say but due to his age and contract, weber doesn't have much value. He won't be able to land us Duchene or Barrie.

That kind of deal was possible with Subban.


bergy is clueless.
Weber has a lot of value...

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Old
05-13-2017, 04:39 PM
  #90
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Draft Picks transacted during Bergevin's tenure

Based on a search I conducted:

2012:
MB neither traded nor acquired any picks

2013:
acquired a 2013 3rd rounder in the Eric Cole deal
gave up a 2013 5th round pick in the Drewiske deal
gave 2013 7th rounder in exchange for Panthers' 2014 7th rounder
gave up 2014 7th rounder in Parros deal

2014:
gave up 2014 5th rounder in Mike Weaver deal
gave up 2014 2nd rounder and acquired 2014 5th rounder in Vanek/ Collberg deal
gave up 2014 3rd and 4th rounders and acquired 2014 3rd rounder (to get Lernout)
acquired 2015 5th rounder in the Brière trade
acquired 2016 2nd rounder in Gorges trade

2015:
gave up 2016 5th rounder in the Bryan Flynn deal
gave up 2015 2nd and 4th rounder in Petry deal
gave up 2016 7th rounder in Torrey Mitchell deal
acquired 2016 5th rounder in Brandon Prust deal

2016:
acquired 2018 2nd rounder in Danault / Wiese/ Fleischmann deal
acquired 2017 and 2018 2nd rounders in Lars Eller deal
gave up two 2016 2nd rounders in Andrew Shaw deal
acquired 2016 7th rounder and gave up 2017 7th rounder to Jets

2017:
gave up 2017 6th rounder in Nikita Nesterov deal
gave up 2017 4th rounder in Jordie Benn deal
gave up 2018 6th rounder in Steve Ott deal
gave up 2018 4th rounder in Dwight King deal (could become 3rd rounder if they re-sign King)

** left out a couple of conditional pick deals that did not materialize (example, Louis Leblanc had to play 15 NHL games within the season he was traded for Habs to gain a pick, but didn't happen)

Data was lifted from 19 pages on this site filtering all of the player moves made by Bergevin from day one: https://www.prosportstransactions.co...Search&start=0


Last edited by Runner77: 05-13-2017 at 04:54 PM.
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Old
05-13-2017, 04:39 PM
  #91
DAChampion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyd View Post
Can't really agree here. I remember fondly - yes fondly - a duo of Eller-DLR that would play puck possession and neatly circle the puck in the O zone. Scoring chances were minimal but at least no harm done. At least the benefit of wearing down the opponent.
That was when Lefebvre and Therrien had spent less time with De La Rose.

In 2016 and 2017, he was poor. Scoring against, shots against, were high.

Behindthenet.ca has him behind most of the Habs forwards in 2016 for Corsi Rel QoC -- he was sheltered too. However, he didn't need sheltering in 2015, so he regressed defensively.


Last edited by DAChampion: 05-13-2017 at 04:47 PM.
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Old
05-13-2017, 04:43 PM
  #92
BLONG7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
Based on a search I conducted:

2012:
MB neither traded nor acquired any picks

2013:
acquired a 2013 3rd rounder in the Eric Cole deal
gave up a 2013 5th round pick in the Drewiske deal
gave 2013 7th rounder in exchange for Panthers' 2014 7th rounder
gave up 2014 7th rounder in Parros deal

2014:
gave up 2014 5th rounder in Mike Weaver deal
gave up 2014 2nd rounder and acquired 2014 5th rounder in Vanek/ Collberg deal
gave up 2014 3rd and 4th rounders and acquired 2014 3rd rounder (to get Lernout)
acquired 2015 5th rounder in the Brière trade
acquired 2016 2nd rounder in Gorges trade

2015:
gave up 2016 5th rounder in the Bryan Flynn deal
gave up 2015 2nd and 4th rounder in Petry deal
gave up 2016 7th rounder in Torrey Mitchell deal
acquired 2016 6th rounder in Brandon Prust deal

2016:
acquired 2018 2nd rounder in Danault / Wiese/ Fleischmann deal
acquired 2017 and 2018 2nd rounders in Lars Eller deal
gave up two 2016 2nd rounders in Andrew Shaw deal
acquired 2016 7th rounder and gave up 2017 7th rounder to Jets

2017:
gave up 2017 6th rounder in Nikita Nesterov deal
gave up 2017 4th rounder in Jordie Benn deal
gave up 2018 6th rounder in Steve Ott deal
gave up 2018 4th rounder in Dwight King deal (could become 3rd rounder if they re-sign King)

** left out a couple of conditional pick deals that did not materialize (example, Louis Leblanc had to play 15 NHL games within the season he was traded for Habs to gain a pick, but didn't happen)

Data was lifted from the 19 pages on this site: https://www.prosportstransactions.co...Search&start=0
MB says building through the draft, when he was hired...to slow the expectations of course...but then does all this??

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Old
05-13-2017, 04:45 PM
  #93
DAChampion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
Weber has a lot of value...
We couldn't get a Subban for him, so he'll always be perceived as having little value.

Realistically, I think Weber could be traded for a pair of late 1st rounders from an emerging contender with cap space, is there such a thing?

For example, if the salary cap went up substantially, teams like Edmonton, Pittsburgh, and Washington might be interested in Weber.

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Old
05-13-2017, 04:49 PM
  #94
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just read something about duchene and how he feels a bout god and how god will choose his path for the future

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Old
05-13-2017, 04:53 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by The Great Pateryn View Post
Galchenyuk is nowhere near as bad defensively as you guys claim he is.
I don't even watch hockey regularly anymore but even I can tell that he's as bad of a defensive player as I've seen in years. He's horrendous out there.

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Old
05-13-2017, 04:53 PM
  #96
Belial
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
We couldn't get a Subban for him, so he'll always be perceived as having little value.

Realistically, I think Weber could be traded for a pair of late 1st rounders from an emerging contender with cap space, is there such a thing?

For example, if the salary cap went up substantially, teams like Edmonton, Pittsburgh, and Washington might be interested in Weber.
You're trying too hard...

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Old
05-13-2017, 04:54 PM
  #97
LaP
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Originally Posted by Boyon90 View Post
just read something about duchene and how he feels a bout god and how god will choose his path for the future
He's perfect for our team. Another choirboy.

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Old
05-13-2017, 04:54 PM
  #98
DAChampion
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You're trying too hard...
Nope, Weber's value is limited to contract, and will decline rapidly moving forward.

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Old
05-13-2017, 04:56 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
MB says building through the draft, when he was hired...to slow the expectations of course...but then does all this??
Just realized I made a mistake. Bergevin acquired a 2016 5th rounder in the Prust deal, not a 6th.

Yeah, a whole lot of picks thrown about, didn't tally them all up to see whether there was a net loss or a net gain.


Last edited by Runner77: 05-13-2017 at 05:14 PM.
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Old
05-13-2017, 05:07 PM
  #100
The Great Pateryn
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