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Carey Price - It's on Him Edition

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Old
05-14-2017, 08:04 AM
  #1
Lafleurs Guy
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Carey Price - It's on Him Edition

Continue here....

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05-14-2017, 08:20 AM
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BLONG7
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Price deserves better...

Yes, I'm talking to you MB...

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05-14-2017, 08:24 AM
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Time to trade the so-called "best goalie in the world" while we can still demand top dollar for him.

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05-14-2017, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Rickkins View Post
Time to trade the so-called "best goalie in the world" while we can still demand top dollar for him.
And become the Beast of the East...in the AHL!! We are an AHL club without him!! It's been proven.

Right now, I wouldn't trust MB to make a trade, a twenty for two tens...

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05-14-2017, 08:55 AM
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One Less Louise
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
There's never been a team to score 1.8 goals per game and win the stanley cup. I'd actually be curious what was the lowest GF of a team that actually won their series.
Fun fact : In 2001-02, the Carolina Hurricanes, won a playoffs series against the NJ devils by scoring fewer goals than the devils. They scored 9 goals in 6 games for 1,5 goals/game average. Devils scored 11 goals. Later in the same playoffs, they won another series by scoring 10 goals in 6 games against the leafs. That year the hurricanes made the finals with a 2.04 goals/game scored.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...2&leaguenm=NHL

If we had played more games, it's entirely possible our GF/G would have went up. If Price had played better, believe it or not, our GF/G would likely have went up too. Here's the thing. Goalies performances affect goals scored :

-Score effect.
-Simply by virtue of getting their team to OT and giving them the occasion to score another goal.
-Empty netters.

If Price had played better, it's entirely possible our goals for/game would also have been higher.

But no one is going to question the fact our offense was a dud in these playoffs. Still, that doesn't mean Price played good enough. And a .930 % percentage was actually good for 6th out of 14 goalies in the first round. Is average good enough for our supposedly best player ? It's not terrible. It's not 0 goals and no effort Pacioretty bad. But it wasn't good. It wasn't best player of the team quality. I expect our best players to be our best players.

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05-14-2017, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Rickkins View Post
Time to trade the so-called "best goalie in the world" while we can still demand top dollar for him.
If you want to be a really bad team, then yes, it's that time. But that would be a horrible idea...

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05-14-2017, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Continue here....
Lg we are going to have a debate about this.

I don't agree on price for more than 8 mill.

It's going to be a long summer. 😎

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05-14-2017, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Except we aren't. How many goals did they put up vs the Rangers?

The guy you said "stole the series" from us suddenly went back to sucking against a crappy opposing team. And I'm not sure why anyone should be surprised. Once again, it perfectly follows the pattern we saw in the 2nd half of this year. We outshoot the opposition but can't score. Why? Two reasons.

1. Lack of forward talent
2. Not properly managing the talent we do have





Bad enough that we did zero to bolster what was a problematic offense, but we went one step further by playing arguably our most skilled forward out of position in the bottom six.

Gee, I wonder why we couldn't score...
The Canadiens are just not that good a hockey team. Front the front office right through the first line and every line to the 9 D. They have a really good goalie. Without THAT goalie the Habs would be a lottery team. Period.
Which would be better for the franchise than this current GM who is plan seems to be to continue "throwing **** at the wall, see if it sticks"
(love that highly accurate description from another poster)

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Old
05-14-2017, 09:10 AM
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Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Lg we are going to have a debate about this.

I don't agree on price for more than 8 mill.

It's going to be a long summer. 😎
Nobody wants to pay their stars but you can't get around it. He's earned more than 8 and he'll likely get it. It's no big deal either. Pay him and move on. Unliess you're going to blow it up entirely and that's another story altogether...

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Old
05-14-2017, 09:11 AM
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WhiskeySeven
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Originally Posted by jaffy27 View Post
On this board, he's the most under appreciated player we have.

17 goals with the best GA per 60 is light years away from being considered overrated......gotta love that early afternoon Scotch eh
Playing in front of Price helps keep the GA down. What are his relative stats? His stats in NSH were unimpressive.

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If Price had played better, it's entirely possible our goals for/game would also have been higher.

But no one is going to question the fact our offense was a dud in these playoffs. Still, that doesn't mean Price played good enough. And a .930 % percentage was actually good for 6th out of 14 goalies in the first round. Is average good enough for our supposedly best player ? It's not terrible. It's not 0 goals and no effort Pacioretty bad. But it wasn't good. It wasn't best player of the team quality. I expect our best players to be our best players.
If the offense played better, we'd score more goals too. In what realm is it on the goalie to get the team to score more goals?

And 6th out of 14 is pretty good considering he's the only star on his team and most other teams have multiple players pulling their weight. And Price was by far our best performer, so I dunno what you're getting at with that. In what world is 1,88 and 0.930 not good?

I get your crusade to not look wrong about Price and to correct the record, the effort is admirable. But your argument is clearly faulty - every series is different and I can count at least one goalie whose stats were inflated because the offense he faced was horrible: Lundqvist. 6th out of 14 is precisely what you should expect out of this team and Price, any other time he could be 1st or 4th or whatever. Goalies vary, the best ones offer you consistency. Price is extremely consistent and reliable.

But the team sucked and didn't pull their weight, we know this for a fact. Why spin it on Price? Despite not being perfect, he was yet again our best player and performer.

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05-14-2017, 09:12 AM
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Fun fact : In 2001-02, the Carolina Hurricanes, won a playoffs series against the NJ devils by scoring fewer goals than the devils. They scored 9 goals in 6 games for 1,5 goals/game average. Devils scored 11 goals. Later in the same playoffs, they won another series by scoring 10 goals in 6 games against the leafs. That year the hurricanes made the finals with a 2.04 goals/game scored.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...2&leaguenm=NHL

oNE
If we had played more games, it's entirely possible our GF/G would have went up. If Price had played better, believe it or not, our GF/G would likely have went up too. Here's the thing. Goalies performances affect goals scored :

-Score effect.
-Simply by virtue of getting their team to OT and giving them the occasion to score another goal.
-Empty netters.

If Price had played better, it's entirely possible our goals for/game would also have been higher.

But no one is going to question the fact our offense was a dud in these playoffs. Still, that doesn't mean Price played good enough. And a .930 % percentage was actually good for 6th out of 14 goalies in the first round. Is average good enough for our supposedly best player ? It's not terrible. It's not 0 goals and no effort Pacioretty bad. But it wasn't good. It wasn't best player of the team quality. I expect our best players to be our best players.
One more "if" and the Habs get by the first round?

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Old
05-14-2017, 09:12 AM
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Habaneros
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Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
If you want to be a really bad team, then yes, it's that time. But that would be a horrible idea...
Big fan of Price....but i have always had a trouble with the best goalie in the world tag placed on him by some of the media and fans...He could be ,

but you don't need the best goalie in the world to win a Stanley Cup....that's a fact..

Nemi
Rask
Osgood
Ward
Fleury
Quick
Murray

All those goalies won cups....Price is better than everyone of them most would say.


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05-14-2017, 09:20 AM
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Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Big fan of Price....but i have always had a trouble with the best goalie in the world tag placed on him by some of the media and fans...He could be ,

but you don't need the best goalie in the world to win a Stanley Cup....that's a fact..

Nemi
Rask
Osgood
Ward
Fleury
Quick
Murray

All those goalies won cups....Price is better than everyone of them most would say.
You don't need the best player in the world to win a cup, or best defenseman, center or winger...

But it helps.

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Old
05-14-2017, 09:23 AM
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Habaneros
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
You don't need the best player in the world to win a cup, or best defenseman, center or winger...

But it helps.
Yep, I'm just saying if Price is to leave(wants to leave), it's not the end of the world in Montreal like some think it will be .

Again big Price fan, but 10 -11-12 million per x say 8 years....That going forward does have implications for the team in a major way .

How many years has Price not had a injury in the lower body region???
Hurts alot more when you're on the hook for 11 million a year and no Price in net....this is a concern of mine.


Last edited by Habaneros: 05-14-2017 at 09:30 AM.
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Old
05-14-2017, 09:23 AM
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But the team sucked and didn't pull their weight, we know this for a fact. Why spin it on Price? Despite not being perfect, he was yet again our best player and performer.
That's not even remotely true.

Radulov was by far our best player. Weber was 2nd. Price a distant 3rd... equal with guys like Lehkonen and Gallagher. Price didn't steal a single game, only games we won where games where we scored 3 and 4 goals. In the elimination game he let the rangers back in with a softy, and deflected the game winner into his own net on a shot that was going wide. How can he have been our best player ?

I'm not "spinning" anything. I'm also not blaming Price for our loss 100%, it's a team game. Price certainly deserves a part of the blame, along with Pacioretty and our crappy offense, and some mistakes we made on D. It's one big equation. Of course if we had scored 5 goals per game we would still be playing. But then we wouldn't need Price. All I am saying is that you won't go far in the playoffs when your best player doesn't play like your best player.

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05-14-2017, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by One Less Louise View Post
That's not even remotely true.

Radulov was by far our best player. Weber was 2nd. Price a distant 3rd... equal with guys like Lehkonen and Gallagher. Price didn't steal a single game, only games we won where games where we scored 3 and 4 goals. In the elimination game he let the rangers back in with a softy, and deflected the game winner into his own net on a shot that was going wide. How can he have been our best player ?

I'm not "spinning" anything. I'm also not blaming Price for our loss 100%, it's a team game. Price certainly deserves a part of the blame, along with Pacioretty and our crappy offense, and some mistakes we made on D. It's one big equation. Of course if we had scored 5 goals per game we would still be playing. But then we wouldn't need Price. All I am saying is that you won't go far in the playoffs when your best player doesn't play like your best player.
I disagree. 1.88 and .930 is better than 0.5ppg Weber. Radulov had a good series though, maybe he's tied with Price.

Stealing games is such a stupid term. It's meaningless, I love saying that Price steals games just to rile people up. It means literally nothing. If a goalie lets in less than 2 goals, he's done as good a job as you can expect from him, anything more is gravy.

Price is our best player and played like anyone could expect him to, anything more is unreasonable. It's like saying why didn't Ovechkin score a goal every single game - it's unreasonable.

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Originally Posted by PaulD View Post
Belfour and all the boys back then were playing 60 plus games.

The Devils were built around an idea and the players bought in.

Even if their was any one player that was THE guy they assemble the team around. It was Scott Stevens.
Depends which Devils years you're talking about but I'd say the team was built around Lemaire and Lou more than anything. Brodeur was a huge part of that team, let's not kid ourselves though.

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05-14-2017, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by One Less Louise View Post
Fun fact : In 2001-02, the Carolina Hurricanes, won a playoffs series against the NJ devils by scoring fewer goals than the devils. They scored 9 goals in 6 games for 1,5 goals/game average. Devils scored 11 goals. Later in the same playoffs, they won another series by scoring 10 goals in 6 games against the leafs. That year the hurricanes made the finals with a 2.04 goals/game scored.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...2&leaguenm=NHL

If we had played more games, it's entirely possible our GF/G would have went up. If Price had played better, believe it or not, our GF/G would likely have went up too. Here's the thing. Goalies performances affect goals scored :

-Score effect.
-Simply by virtue of getting their team to OT and giving them the occasion to score another goal.
-Empty netters.

If Price had played better, it's entirely possible our goals for/game would also have been higher.

But no one is going to question the fact our offense was a dud in these playoffs. Still, that doesn't mean Price played good enough. And a .930 % percentage was actually good for 6th out of 14 goalies in the first round. Is average good enough for our supposedly best player ? It's not terrible. It's not 0 goals and no effort Pacioretty bad. But it wasn't good. It wasn't best player of the team quality. I expect our best players to be our best players.
I wouldn't argue that Price was good enough. I also don't really think that it's a reliable thing that a human being can do to be as good as Price needs to be in order to win us a cup. We outchanced the rangers in quite a few games, but we just couldn't bury them. When I see that I don't think ''puck luck'' like the happy-to-be-here crowd. I think we don't have enough forward talent to get the job done. Good forward talent typically has a high shooting percentage. We're just not built correctly to go deep. Stanley cup winners can, in general, score more goals than their competitors.

I don't think we have the forward talent to score the 3.0 GPG that seems to be necessary in recent years to take home the cup. We can't even hit that mark in the regular season against garbage teams in a weak division.

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Old
05-14-2017, 09:33 AM
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If Price had played better, it's entirely possible our goals for/game would also have been higher.
I'll just jump to this because it goes right to the heart of the ludicrous arguments you've been making.

1. "It's entirely possible our goals for would have been higher..." This is a team that has been 28th in goals since February. And yet somehow we're suddenly going to be able to score if Price is "better?" And how much "better" does Price have to be here? 930+ wasn't good enough. Is .940 good enough? How about .950?

Look at game one. He gave up only one goal. How come the offense wasn't suddenly higher in that game? What in the world makes you think that him being better is going to make an impotent team like this suddenly able to score.

2. You've said he gives up goals at bad times. Please tell me when a "good time" would be when you've got a team that struggles to manage to score 2 goals a game. You criticized him for giving up goals first or after we've scored... cripes man, when can this guy give up a goal without you saying it's awful timing?

It's ALWAYS awful timing for us because we can't freaking score.



Don't know if you caught the last Nashville game but Rinne gave up two pretty bad goals. Didn't matter though, he made a ton of great saves and had the offense to bail him out. Price doesn't have that luxury. If he gives up any kind of goal the game is over. He has NO margin of error with this team.

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05-14-2017, 09:39 AM
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That's not even remotely true.

Radulov was by far our best player. Weber was 2nd. Price a distant 3rd... equal with guys like Lehkonen and Gallagher. Price didn't steal a single game, only games we won where games where we scored 3 and 4 goals. In the elimination game he let the rangers back in with a softy, and deflected the game winner into his own net on a shot that was going wide. How can he have been our best player ?

I'm not "spinning" anything. I'm also not blaming Price for our loss 100%, it's a team game. Price certainly deserves a part of the blame, along with Pacioretty and our crappy offense, and some mistakes we made on D. It's one big equation. Of course if we had scored 5 goals per game we would still be playing. But then we wouldn't need Price. All I am saying is that you won't go far in the playoffs when your best player doesn't play like your best player.
At the very least Carey Price was arguably our best player. You might be able to say Radulov. Shea Weber was good but not as good as the other two.

1.86 and 930+ is excellent.

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05-14-2017, 09:41 AM
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I disagree. 1.88 and .930 is better than 0.5ppg Weber. Radulov had a good series though, maybe he's tied with Price.

Stealing games is such a stupid term. It's meaningless, I love saying that Price steals games just to rile people up. It means literally nothing. If a goalie lets in less than 2 goals, he's done as good a job as you can expect from him, anything more is gravy.

Price is our best player and played like anyone could expect him to, anything more is unreasonable. It's like saying why didn't Ovechkin score a goal every single game - it's unreasonable.
Well I disagree with you on Price. Nope, it doesn't mean that Ovechkin should have scored a goal every game. Just like it never means that Price has to steal ALL the games. We clearly needed him to steal game #6 and who knows, despite the bad team we have, we might not have needed him in game 7. People who keep defending Price at all costs think that by somehow mentioning him, it means that we don't recognize the other flaws. There are way too black or white in this board, it's scary. I'll talk for myself, THERE ARE WAY MANY OTHER PROBLEMS than Price. I dislike that team. Dislike the composition of it. Uninteresting to watch. And not succesful when it's time to be. And I'm NOT talking about Price.

Having said all of that, I have against people who keep saying that Price can't do anything with the offense we had. Sure, they are TOTALLY RIGHT when you talk over a span of a long series. But it's absolutely NOT true on any specific games. I've proven times and times again that goalies have stolen games in these playoffs with NO offensive support. So why can they do it, and not Price who is seen as one of the best if not the best goalie in the league. By talking like that, people hold him at the same standards as any other goalies in the league. Makes no sense to me. Especially since Price has done it times and times and times again over the regular season. Yep, I know, not the same type of season. But a goalie will make a name out of himself in the playoffs. Tim Thomas stole how many games while being bombarded continuously. Some will say that it appears so because of his style of play, yeah probably. Yet, we all knew Boston would be the weakest team to have won the Cup. And to have been able to do so, it HAS to mean that Thomas stole games on his own. In the end, you live and die with the perofmrances of your best players. Your to players needs to be amongst the best at their position. At the end of the playoffs, Price had the 6th best record.

Again, Price is NOT a problem. But he hasn't prove he is part of the solution either. Do I want to trade him because of performance issue? Absolutely not. I want to trade players who are problems. He is not. But can I see ourselves trading him so that you can transform him into fixing problems? I say we have to be aware of that.

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05-14-2017, 09:45 AM
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I hope he returns but don't blame him one bit if he decides to move on , I has has to suck playing for a team that can't score goals.

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05-14-2017, 09:46 AM
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I disagree. 1.88 and .930 is better than 0.5ppg Weber. Radulov had a good series though, maybe he's tied with Price.
I actually watched the games, and no one who did would say Price was our best player but you. It was very obvious that Radulov and Weber were our best players.. by far. I know for a fact you actually didn't watch one of our wins since you told us you were in a rave or something. So how would you even be in a position to argue with me about this when you didn't even watch one of our wins?

Quote:
Stealing games is such a stupid term. It's meaningless, I love saying that Price steals games just to rile people up. It means literally nothing. If a goalie lets in less than 2 goals, he's done as good a job as you can expect from him, anything more is gravy.
Stealing games for me is when a goalie allows a team to win a game they got outplayed in by making several big saves. But yeah sure, I agree it's meaningless.

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Price is our best player and played like anyone could expect him to, anything more is unreasonable. It's like saying why didn't Ovechkin score a goal every single game - it's unreasonable.
No, it's like saying why didn't Ovechkin score the big goal when his team needed him to in game #7 against the pens, or any other game they lost by one goal. Ovechkin definitely didn't rise to the occasion in these playoffs. But you can't blame him solely for the loss. No loss can be put on a single player. I'm not doing that for Price either. But certainly both players lack of performance contributed to the final result.

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05-14-2017, 09:48 AM
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Again, Price is NOT a problem. But he hasn't prove he is part of the solution either. Do I want to trade him because of performance issue? Absolutely not. I want to trade players who are problems. He is not. But can I see ourselves trading him so that you can transform him into fixing problems? I say we have to be aware of that.
Here's the deal.

If we walk into this summer unable to resign Radulov, and unable to upgrade the centerline, trading Price becomes a legitimate solution. If you cannot fix the holes in the roster during the cup window it would pay dividends to be proactive and actively start the rebuild now as opposed to waiting until our assets are depreciated (or even worse with Price, walk away frustrated with no return).

It HAS to be on the table. HAS to be. If it's not, this organization is on its way to another 20+ years of mediocrity.

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05-14-2017, 09:48 AM
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Well I disagree with you on Price. Nope, it doesn't mean that Ovechkin should have scored a goal every game. Just like it never means that Price has to steal ALL the games. We clearly needed him to steal game #6 and who knows, despite the bad team we have, we might not have needed him in game 7.

People who keep defending Price at all costs think that by somehow mentioning him, it means that we don't recognize the other flaws. There are way too black or white in this board, it's scary. I'll talk for myself, THERE ARE WAY MANY OTHER PROBLEMS than Price. I dislike that team. Dislike the composition of it. Uninteresting to watch. And not succesful when it's time to be. And I'm NOT talking about Price.

Having said all of that, I have against people who keep saying that Price can't do anything with the offense we had. Sure, they are TOTALLY RIGHT when you talk over a span of a long series. But it's absolutely NOT true on any specific games. I've proven times and times again that goalies have stolen games in these playoffs with NO offensive support. So why can they do it, and not Price who is seen as one of the best if not the best goalie in the league. By talking like that, people hold him at the same standards as any other goalies in the league. Makes no sense to me. Especially since Price has done it times and times and times again over the regular season. Yep, I know, not the same type of season. But a goalie will make a name out of himself in the playoffs.

Tim Thomas stole how many games while being bombarded continuously. Some will say that it appears so because of his style of play, yeah probably. Yet, we all knew Boston would be the weakest team to have won the Cup. And to have been able to do so, it HAS to mean that Thomas stole games on his own.

In the end, you live and die with the perofmrances of your best players. Your to players needs to be amongst the best at their position. At the end of the playoffs, Price had the 6th best record.

Again, Price is NOT a problem. But he hasn't prove he is part of the solution either. Do I want to trade him because of performance issue? Absolutely not. I want to trade players who are problems. He is not. But can I see ourselves trading him so that you can transform him into fixing problems? I say we have to be aware of that.
To say he could've stopped this shot or that one... that's fine. He wasn't able to steal a game... okay.

But to jump from that (as some are doing) and saying that we can't win with the guy or that we should trade him for somebody else is ridiculous. It's also ridiculous to say you can't build around a goalie. Of course you can. But you can't build it around the goalie alone and that's pretty much what we've done.

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05-14-2017, 09:49 AM
  #25
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
But to jump from that (as many are doing) and saying that we can't win with the guy or that we should trade him for somebody else is ridiculous.
I agree. People bashing Price saying he was BAD and/or wanting to trade him based on performance is ridiculous indeed.

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