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Carey Price - It's on Him Edition

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Old
05-14-2017, 07:03 PM
  #76
One Less Louise
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Nope, just calling you out. And please don't pretend like this isn't what you're doing when you write stuff like this...
So you did understand the point I was trying to make and your whole Luongo shtick was just another strawman to reduce the discussion to a worthless pissing match? Good to know.

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05-14-2017, 09:16 PM
  #77
Lafleurs Guy
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So you did understand the point I was trying to make and your whole Luongo shtick was just another strawman to reduce the discussion to a worthless pissing match? Good to know.
As I said... there was no strawman. I took your "argument" and pushed it to it's logical conclusion. If you don't want to be called for this stuff then don't make posts like this.

The idea that there are 20 good goalies and Price isn't much better is nonsense.

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Old
05-14-2017, 09:52 PM
  #78
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If MB can't get a real #1 C and Molson doesn't replace him with a GM that will, AND Rads or equivalent is not resigned then I'm okay with trading Price to get a #1 C, albeit, I would rather trade pretty much everyone else on the team first.
In general, to me, trading Price is pretty much a sign of rebuilding although I suppose there are other possible scenarios.
As for those harping about Price's next contract, frankly, as long as it's <$10mil, I don't mind, since you can always find ways to fit that in while still affording a real #1 C. Yes, that means offloading some regulars and or a bunch for bottom 6 players but a good GM can do it. Now, whether MB can do it is another story.

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05-14-2017, 10:21 PM
  #79
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Its on Price that this pathetic team can't score goals? That we have the worst, laziest sack of **** captain in Habs history? Captain emptynet did nothing at all... and we blame the guy that held the team in as long as it was?? Out in 4 without Price.

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05-14-2017, 10:24 PM
  #80
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Its on Price that this pathetic team can't score goals? That we have the worst, laziest sack of **** captain in Habs history? Captain emptynet did nothing at all... and we blame the guy that held the team in as long as it was?? Out in 4 without Price.
Did Pacioretty even score an empty net goal this season?

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05-14-2017, 10:25 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
Did Pacioretty even score an empty net goal this season?
I didn't watch a Habs game until after Therrien was finally tossed out; so I can't answer that.

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05-14-2017, 11:19 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by E82 View Post
Trade Price? I mean, I don't mind if they do so long as the return is justified but do you guys really imagine Bergevin Trading Subban and Price in his first stint as GM? That would look so damaging. When was the last time a team traded two cornerstone/"franchise" players by the same GM, especially a rookie GM. Not happening. They will do everything required to sign him unless if Bergevin is fired first.
Price is Bergevin's job security. He isn't going anywhere.

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Old
05-14-2017, 11:50 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by One Less Louise View Post
Back in '95, there used to be like 10 good goalies in the league. And there was a huge drop off between the top 3 and the rest of the league. Guys like Roy, Hasek and Brodeur were pretty far ahead of everyone else. Then you had a second category of guys like Richter, Cujo, Belfour. But times have changed.

Nowadays, there's like 20-25 good goalies. And no one is consistently better than everyone else, no current active goalie has won multiple vezina trophies (about to change with Brobo, Holtby and Price since all 3 have won one vezina each and they're all nominated for this year's vezina). No active vezina winner has won a cup.

Going back to 2010-11 (Price's first good season as a legit starter) if you look at cumulative save % :
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?aggr...&sort=savePctg
There's 0,01 SV% separating top 6 and 0,04 SV% separating the top 10.

Building a team around Price is pointless since he is not that much better than everyone else (if at all) that it gives us an advantage over any other team, especially considering how much goaltending performances fluctuates from year to year.

And we're only talking regular season here.

In the playoffs, a lot of goalies seem able to find another gear and play at another level whereas Price goes down in level slightly in the playoffs over the same period of time (since 2010-11) as evidenced here with Price not cracking the top 10 in save % :

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?aggr...&sort=savePctg

Even if you take the cutoff at Price's best season in 2014-15, it's not much better in the playoffs he doesn't crack the top 5 :

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?aggregate=1&gameType=3&report=goaliesummary &pos=G&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20142015&seaso nTo=20162017&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,15&sort=savePc tg

He's 0,01 better than Fleury and Rinne in playoffs save% since 2014-15.

And we're talking about Price's peak here. It's not going to get better.

But eh, Price is another good goalie among many others who had an amazing peak in 2014-15.
This is a good post. There's no point to ''building from the net out.'' We're just the poor ******** who had to run the experiment and demonstrate to the rest of the world that it just doesn't make any sense from really any perspective.

Goaltending prospects don't have value so you can't horde them and trade them for much. The best goaltender in the world won't return his full value in a trade because, as you say, someone else who is ''good enough'' can be had relatively easily. And keeping him isn't exactly likely to win you the cup on his own so paying him his due is likely to hurt more than paying, say, the best centerman in the world an equivalent amount.

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05-14-2017, 11:54 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Price deserves better...

Yes, I'm talking to you MB...
What has he done to deserve better though?

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05-15-2017, 12:02 AM
  #85
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Yes Price is our MVP, but at the time when he was drafted, I thought that using top-5 pick for goalie is excessive. And i still think that way. You can do a good cup run without super goalie, but not without good forward group. F*** me, this is depressing. 1st round in playoffs is our Stanley cup...oh dear.

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05-15-2017, 12:56 AM
  #86
nhlfan9191
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Originally Posted by Genesis76 View Post
What has he done to deserve better though?
He's carried teams that don't belong in the playoffs to three 100+ point seasons. You can't be serious. His numbers in his last 199 games played in the regular season are better then Halak's fluke 18 game run in 2010, and the numbers he put up in the playoffs are also just as good since 2014.


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05-15-2017, 01:08 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
He's carried teams that don't belong in the playoffs to three 100+ point seasons. You can't be serious. His numbers in his last 199 games played in the regular season are better then Halak's fluke 18 game run in 2010, and the numbers he put up in the playoffs are also just as good since 2014.
numbers....

...what about wins?

Not so much right?

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05-15-2017, 01:13 AM
  #88
nhlfan9191
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Originally Posted by Genesis76 View Post
numbers....

...what about wins?

Not so much right?
Who cares about wins? It's a team stat and our team stinks. And he's gone to a conference final himself so your argument holds no weight.

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05-15-2017, 01:41 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Genesis76 View Post
numbers....

...what about wins?

Not so much right?
Sample size...

Not so much right?

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05-15-2017, 02:57 AM
  #90
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If you add the salary of DD and Price, you get to 10M.

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05-15-2017, 06:18 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Genesis76 View Post
What has he done to deserve better though?
He deserves a team in front of him, to score goals, 3 goals has you win, 1 goal has you lose...it's that simple. In our 4 losses in the playoffs this year, we scored FOUR goals....yes FOUR....

We need skill, offensive players...a real top 6 would be nice...some strength down the middle would be nice...

Price carries the team, so yes he deserves better.

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05-15-2017, 07:00 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
He deserves a team in front of him, to score goals, 3 goals has you win, 1 goal has you lose...it's that simple. In our 4 losses in the playoffs this year, we scored FOUR goals....yes FOUR....

We need skill, offensive players...a real top 6 would be nice...some strength down the middle would be nice...

Price carries the team, so yes he deserves better.
Top-6 players:
Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Radulov, Lehkonen, Gallagher for sure.

So we need another one among:
Byron, Shaw, Danault, Plekanec
to be a top-6.
Pretty sure Plek will bounce back.

That's 9 players who can play top-9.
If Galchenyuk becomes our top center we are OK.

McCarron had 5 points in 31 games playing 9:53 per game.
If he plays 82 games with 12 minutes he can get 16 points.
He can also improve this summer.

Hudon could also get 15 points. He did much better than McCarron in AHL.
Mitchell could get 15-20 points.
That could be pretty good fourth line.
DLR could also improve. If he could get between 10 and 15 points pace it would be great.

We need to raise to a level where our 12th forward scores 20-25 points (like Hagelin who is 12th in Pittsburgh with 22 points). 15 points is a minimum.
Flynn and Desharnais were 11th and 12th with 10 points.

With our actual top-9 and a fourth line giving us 55-65 points we are in business.
Remember Price and our defense that can produce better than most teams.

Wild was second offense with Schroeder and Hanzal as 11th/12th getting 13 points (in less games).
Graovac was 13th at 9 points.

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05-15-2017, 07:19 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by One Less Louise View Post
I actually watched the games, and no one who did would say Price was our best player but you.
I watched all the games too and I'm amazed anybody would try to claim that Price wasn't the best player in the series for Montreal.

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05-15-2017, 07:22 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Nobody wants to pay their stars but you can't get around it. He's earned more than 8 and he'll likely get it. It's no big deal either. Pay him and move on. Unliess you're going to blow it up entirely and that's another story altogether...
You're correct. 8.5 then. 😀 Sorry about smilies but work is ex making mad men look simple right now.

Habs need to go nuclear on Tavares. 11 mill. Price will understand that. I'm sure price and his wife can survive on 64 mill. The guy ropes bulls and fishes for **** sake.

They're not exactly idiot yacht people.

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05-15-2017, 07:29 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
He's carried teams that don't belong in the playoffs to three 100+ point seasons. You can't be serious. His numbers in his last 199 games played in the regular season are better then Halak's fluke 18 game run in 2010, and the numbers he put up in the playoffs are also just as good since 2014.
I don't agree 100%. Price has been great and very reliable for us but the whole "Habs are nothing without Price" has been blown out of proportion.

- With Price and a healthy roster: The Habs are a top 10 NHL team

- Without Price and a healthy roster and a actual NHL goalie as a replacement: The Habs are a bubble playoff team.

Lets not over exaggerate. Price is great but he's not god.

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05-15-2017, 07:35 AM
  #96
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You're correct. 8.5 then. 😀 Sorry about smilies but work is ex making mad men look simple right now.

Habs need to go nuclear on Tavares. 11 mill. Price will understand that. I'm sure price and his wife can survive on 64 mill. The guy ropes bulls and fishes for **** sake.

They're not exactly idiot yacht people.
It's a matter of circumstance of available opportunities for this Habs team with no elite level center. I agree, If Tavares becomes available, we need to go hard at him and use our Price/Weber cards. Tavares/Price/Weber long term in Montreal would be amazing! Multiple players then line-up each year to sign here because of the potential of winning a cup in Montreal.

Price for somewhere around $8-$8.5M AAV seems like the right deal to me.

If Tavares becomes available, Galchenyuk is our trade chip and the NYI would like this return with a few more pieces. I wonder what other team would have that comes close to what we would have to offer.

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05-15-2017, 07:45 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
You don't need the best player in the world to win a cup, or best defenseman, center or winger...

But it helps.
Evidence is showing that having a top 5 centre in the po gets you further than having a top 5 goalie.

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05-15-2017, 08:05 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
That is if Price really wants to stay in Montreal....A blank cheque from Montreal don't mean much.

If Price isn't signed before the season starts, you gotta move him....

Here is a nightmare scenario....Price isn't signed to a new deal when season starts, and 20 games in gets injured and is out for the rest of the year...goes UFA

You get nothing(no value) for him.

If Price isn't signed before season starts, that tells me he plans on leaving town ...
I agree. Bergy's biggest task this summer is signing price to a good but reasonable contract.

Price is not stupid. He knows Habs need to reserve 10 or even 11 mill for a superstar.

This summer tells us everything about bergy and price also.

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05-15-2017, 08:25 AM
  #99
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Well Carey had fine playoffs....but wasn't on top of his class in the 1st round. He had great numbers. But people forget that 5 others had better numbers. So you still, for a particular round, have Price get better numbers and a better performance.

And frankly, I absolutely couldn't care less about the numbers when it's time to talk about stealing games. He could have gave 12 goals on 13 shots on 1 given game, and still be able to save 3 games with a Save% under .900. Be awful all you want for 3 games, but if you have a game saving god for the 4 games you wins, he'll still be seen as the guy who elevates his game when we need it the most despite putrid numbers. I'M exagerating...but you get the point.
And that's great playoff goaltending. Should Habs depend on it? No. but playing nets and watching goalies in NHL for 40 years tells me you need to steal one game.

You stop the puck with your head or your balls. But you close the door precisely becuase your guys can't score that night.

Long term at a fair salary price is the best way to go.

But I've never seen him do a Roy or Dryden in the po. That means 8 mill not 10.

It's part of the game. Your goalie has to absolutely steal one game a series. It's what great goalies do.

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05-15-2017, 08:33 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Dead wrong and total nonsense.

You should probably also look in the mirror on this one. From the get go you were all over Price from the moment he gave up a goal in game one.

I watched them all. So did the folks on the main boards where I spent a bunch of time policing. It was "Price can't do it by himself" comments. Moreover, people were wondering why a few of our posters were trying to blame Price who was "Montreal's best player."

No problem with anyone who said Radulov was our best player but Price was just as good if not better.

If we can't win with the goaltending we got in that series then we're never going to win anything.
Lg did you see Roy stone the rags in ot in 86? Ten minutes of the greatest goaltending I've ever seen.

Roy refused to lose that game. That is best goalie in the world goaltending.

Yes pay price 8.5. Of course.

It is ALL about stealing games in po that makes a great goalie.

Yes price is consistent and the best goalie in the league. And that is very important.

But I'm not paying him ten mill because he has never done the insanity that Roy and Dryden did in the po.

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