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Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXXII -- (Caps submit expansion protect list)

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Old
05-14-2017, 10:58 PM
  #26
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I'm not arguing Hextall is great, I'm saying that Lombardi went to **** without him. The two of them together worked effectively. Lombardi on his own has been poor.

Brown had only won one cup at that point. Giving out contracts for PAST performance and not FUTURE value is how you destroy a franchise.

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05-14-2017, 11:01 PM
  #27
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That's what NHL GMs do. Toews and Parise didn't get those contracts because their best years were ahead of them. You win cups for your franchise, you get paid.

I don't care how bad Lombardi ****s up our cap situation after he wins us a cup.

We could have BMac be his Hextall, or hell try to woo Patrick Roy or soon to be fired Garth Snow into an AGM position if the secret formula is a crazy ex goaler.

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05-14-2017, 11:02 PM
  #28
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And how many Cups has Chicago won since the Toews and Kane contracts took effect? How many Cups has Parise won?

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05-14-2017, 11:07 PM
  #29
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Lombardi gave out his crap contracts to players who were playoff heroes for him en route to a cup. Players who come to play for him know if they go to war they will get rewarded in Valhalla. That's why LA absolutely demolished everybody the years they were able to get it together. Him and Sutter were able to wring that extra gear out of their teams that we so very much needed in game 7.

cause ---> effect

You seem to be under the impression that he's gonna give out **** contracts to players before they win anything for him, which does not jive with his management style at all. If anything he clamps down on your balls until you prove yourself through 4 rounds like he had with Doughty and Brown's first contract.

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05-14-2017, 11:11 PM
  #30
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This is the most absurd argument I've ever heard. Even if you assume your completely absurd premise that players are more willing to play for a GM who gives out bad contracts, why were players willing to play for the 2012 Kings, then?

You're seriously trying to spin giving out terrible contracts that converted a cup contending team to a team that has missed the playoffs in 2/3 years as a positive attribute.

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05-14-2017, 11:14 PM
  #31
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And why on Earth are we pretending that there aren't multiple other Stanley Cup winning coaches out there right now?

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05-15-2017, 01:05 AM
  #32
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This is the most absurd argument I've ever heard.
Really? On a forum littered with a couple dozen versions of overzealous "blow it up" arguments, a GM paying guys that won Cups is the most absurd argument you've ever heard?

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Even if you assume your completely absurd premise that players are more willing to play for a GM who gives out bad contracts, why were players willing to play for the 2012 Kings, then?
Gosh, I don't know. Why would a bunch of rich guys want to live in one of the most beautiful places in the country, where the wealthy are treated like royalty, the glamor of Hollywood is at their fingertips, and there's a better than even chance of nailing a Kardashian?

Yeah, the LA teams have always had trouble being attractive trade destinations and luring free agents...

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You're seriously trying to spin giving out terrible contracts that converted a cup contending team to a team that has missed the playoffs in 2/3 years as a positive attribute.
No, he's clearly saying that he's willing to endure that kind of crap if it comes on the heels of winning a Cup or two.

He's saying that he thinks Lombardi is pretty great. You're saying he's a disaster. The fact that neither of you can concede that the truth lies pretty squarely in the middle is getting tiresome.

Personally, I'm not gonna jump off the roof if we stick with Trotz and Mac. I don't have much of an issue with what Mac's done with what he inherited, and I see as many reasons to keep Trotz as I do to fire him.

I like some of the available coaches, but "Once upon a time, this guy coached a Cup team" isn't all that convincing to me. We've all seen unremarkable coaches win championships in every sport.

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05-15-2017, 07:02 AM
  #33
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Jesus, I knew coming on here at this point would be depressing, but this is next level. Do some of you give anyone in the entire organization any credit? Obviously it was another banner year of under performance in the playoffs, but do you truly believe that all 20 players who saw the ice during our 13 games, the entire coaching staff, and the GM's squad did EVERYTHING wrong like you're alluding to? Was nothing done right because we didn't show up for the one game that mattered? It's insane some of the suggestions I'm seeing for this team, and I'm not sure what you're thinking it would solve.
Who cares if they did some things right? That's expected. The goal is to win the Cup. That's what THEY set out to do. They came up short. Again. In more than just one game.

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05-15-2017, 07:38 AM
  #34
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It's hilarious that GMBM is going to take blame here. Just go back and look at the 2013-14 roster. You will laugh at how horrible that team looks compared to now.

His only real mistake was giving Orpik that money and term but even then Orpik was an upgrade over Cam Schilling, Jack Hillen, Alex Urbom, Julien Brouillette, Steve Oleksy, Tyson Strachan, etc etc

GMBM identified many of the weaknesses in the team and addressed them. He went out and got Eller to help down the middle. He finally went all in at the TDL and for Shattenkirk to help the D. If he hadn't done that, a lot of you would be *****ing that he stood pat.

What else did you expect him to do? Go out and create 4 scoring lines like it's ****ing NHL 17 with the salary cap off? The team he assembled on paper was a cup winning team. Unfortunately injuries happened to some key players, Holtby played like **** up until the final few games, and the players are mentally weak when it comes to facing Pittsburgh in the playoffs.

Clearly there are changes that need to be made but let's not get irrational

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05-15-2017, 07:57 AM
  #35
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Gotta love Nashville right now

I think that the Caps in Preds are in a fairly similar boat, or atleast were before this season. Neither team had all that much success in the playoffs, of late pretty consistent in getting there though. Both got new coaches and new styles of play accordingly.

Except Nashville changed their entire locker room with one trade, player for player.

Love him or hate him PK Subban has energized that team. They play awesome hockey.

I would love to see the Caps do something super bold like that.


Nashville traded away one of the best young D-Men (Jones) and their captain (Weber) in a F it lets go kinda move. Can't say I hate that thought cause clearly it works

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05-15-2017, 08:33 AM
  #36
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Lol what? I'm sorry but a bottom 6 of burakovsky/johansson, eller and Connolly

And Wilson, winnik and beagle should have produced. Find me a better bottom 6? Pitt with their ahl guys? Yeah ok
I'll never understand why people on here are so high on Connolly, he had one good month on a super hot line, besides that he's barely an NHLer, let alone a good top 9 player.

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05-15-2017, 09:28 AM
  #37
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I'll never understand why people on here are so high on Connolly, he had one good month on a super hot line, besides that he's barely an NHLer, let alone a good top 9 player.
He scored 15 goals in 66 games playing with a center that didn't click with anyone offensively all year and a rotating door on his off-wing. At a time where we're almost definitely going to lose Justin Williams and maybe TJ Oshie, who scored over 100 goals here between them in 2 years, having a very cheap RFA on your roster that's capable of 20 is a good thing.

I don't see that anyone here is "high on" him. There was nary a complaint on this forum when he got benched. He's just someone that you hope keeps working out going forward, is all.

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05-15-2017, 09:29 AM
  #38
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He scored 15 goals in 66 games playing with a center that didn't click with anyone offensively all year and a rotating door on his off-wing. At a time where we're almost definitely going to lose Justin Williams and maybe TJ Oshie, who scored over 100 goals here between them in 2 years, having a very cheap RFA on your roster that's capable of 20 is a good thing.

I don't see that anyone here is "high on" him. There was nary a complaint on this forum when he got benched. He's just someone that you hope keeps working out going forward, is all.
Cause regular season success means nothing to me anymore

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05-15-2017, 09:38 AM
  #39
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Really? On a forum littered with a couple dozen versions of overzealous "blow it up" arguments, a GM paying guys that won Cups is the most absurd argument you've ever heard?
If his argument stopped there, it would be fine. Instead he's arguing that giving out bad contracts is a good thing. He jumped the shark a while ago.

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Gosh, I don't know. Why would a bunch of rich guys want to live in one of the most beautiful places in the country, where the wealthy are treated like royalty, the glamor of Hollywood is at their fingertips, and there's a better than even chance of nailing a Kardashian?

Yeah, the LA teams have always had trouble being attractive trade destinations and luring free agents...
That's not what's being debated here. His claim was that players were more willing to get over Game 7 humps because Lombardi "rewarded them in Valhalla." Thor/Lombardi had yet to give anyone those massive, overinflated contracts in 2012, so his logic falls apart for the first of the two Kings Cups.



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No, he's clearly saying that he's willing to endure that kind of crap if it comes on the heels of winning a Cup or two.

He's saying that he thinks Lombardi is pretty great. You're saying he's a disaster. The fact that neither of you can concede that the truth lies pretty squarely in the middle is getting tiresome.
I had already acknowledged that prior to 2013 (when Hextall left), Lombardi had done a good job. I just think the stink of his regime afterwards (as well as his absurd management of the US WCoH team) has left a lot of question marks out there with regards to how he has functioned without Hextall as part of his team. Enough for some significant concern, especially given that GMBM hasn't exactly screwed the pooch.

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05-15-2017, 10:13 AM
  #40
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Cause regular season success means nothing to me anymore
Right, okay. So let's get rid of a guy that costs 850K who scored only two fewer even strength goals than Alex Ovechkin despite playing over 5 less minutes per game, 16 less games, and with vastly inferior linemates. Because you're cranky.

Let's ditch a cheap, restricted, quality RW at a time where we might be losing our two best RWs. Let's go into next year at RW with Tom Wilson and... ummm... Damn, there isn't another one. All our other NHL-ready wings are better on the left. Bah, who cares? OV Rocks thinks we'll be fine!

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05-15-2017, 10:22 AM
  #41
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Old
05-15-2017, 10:33 AM
  #42
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Right, okay. So let's get rid of a guy that costs 850K who scored only two fewer even strength goals than Alex Ovechkin despite playing over 5 less minutes per game, 16 less games, and with vastly inferior linemates. Because you're cranky.

Let's ditch a cheap, restricted, quality RW at a time where we might be losing our two best RWs. Let's go into next year at RW with Tom Wilson and... ummm... Damn, there isn't another one. All our other NHL-ready wings are better on the left. Bah, who cares? OV Rocks thinks we'll be fine!
Well Wilson stepped up big time in the Caps first round series when most of the team was still flat. Connolly in those same games put himself in the press box.

Brett Connolly who has been in the league for 6 years averages 7 goals a season. He has played for two of the more dynamic teams in the NHL (TB and WSH) and has 42 career goals. Ovi has gotten less than 42 goals in a season what 3 times? Connolly also only has two seasons with more than 10 assists.

This was likely Connolly's best season he will ever have. He had a high shooting percentage (18.5) and played on a hot line with Andre Burakovksy who is a top 6 player on that 3rd line.

This team will never, ever, win a Stanley Cup with a player like Brett Connolly as their 3rd line Right Wing. Look at last years Penguins, Phil God Damn Kessel was a 3RW. The Sharks had Joel Ward. Brett Connolly certainly isn't Phil Kessel, and his best season ever isn't even close to Joel Ward

If your looking to stay pat and be disappointed next season and beyond sign Brett Connolly for $1.5 million and plant him on the third line, enjoy

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05-15-2017, 10:44 AM
  #43
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If his argument stopped there, it would be fine. Instead he's arguing that giving out bad contracts is a good thing.
No he isn't. He's arguing that he wouldn't mind some bad contracts after winning a Cup. That's his point. You're twisting it. He left room for it, sure. But you're a smart guy. You know what he meant. But you'd rather do the twisting so you can be snarky, hyperbolic, and superior, and frankly so would he.

So can we just pretend you've already swapped dick measurements and get back to a real point of some kind?

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That's not what's being debated here.
Sure it is. Legions of professional athletes would LOVE to play in LA. Period. You asked why anyone would want to play there, and that's all you need to know.

But let's play your game. The Kings also had an elite young goaltender playing out of his mind, a generational #1 defender and good defense overall, and some noteworthy tools on offense. It certainly wasn't a bad place to be. And then, you know, Kardashians and Oscar parties and **** like that.

Quote:
I just think the stink of his regime afterwards (as well as his absurd management of the US WCoH team) has left a lot of question marks out there with regards to how he has functioned without Hextall as part of his team. Enough for some significant concern, especially given that GMBM hasn't exactly screwed the pooch.
I totally agree. Stick to those points. The Hextall thing is easily debatable, but his recent contract history and the World Cup thing sure ain't pretty.

But things like there being no reason to play in LA in 2012? Stuff like that doesn't help your position.

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05-15-2017, 10:48 AM
  #44
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honestly reading most of these posts sounds like crazy people sitting in a room throwing **** at the wall. Dont really know where they go from here. If you list off players that might be/are available I dont even see how they would push the caps over the top. The team lacks "heart" and it cant be taught. Its that simple. Getting to the cup will always involve going thru Pitt until Crosby declines massively or retires which are unlikely. Thought Williams was a step in the right direction but the lack of heart on this team is huge.


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05-15-2017, 11:00 AM
  #45
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Well Wilson stepped up big time in the Caps first round series when most of the team was still flat. Connolly in those same games put himself in the press box.

Brett Connolly who has been in the league for 6 years averages 7 goals a season. He has played for two of the more dynamic teams in the NHL (TB and WSH) and has 42 career goals. Ovi has gotten less than 42 goals in a season what 3 times? Connolly also only has two seasons with more than 10 assists.
The guy was a 6th overall pick who was rushed into the league too quickly, overshadowed by the emergence of other young players, shipped off to Boston where he immediately had a freak injury that could have happened to anyone, otherwise played well there, and then landed here.

He's had a rocky road up to this point. We're the first team to invest real time in him as a mature player, and he played well. Certainly well enough to give him another cheap look, especially when we're likely to be weak at his position. Keeping him is a no-brainer.

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05-15-2017, 11:06 AM
  #46
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The guy was a 6th overall pick who was rushed into the league too quickly, overshadowed by the emergence of other young players, shipped off to Boston where he immediately had a freak injury that could have happened to anyone, otherwise played well there, and then landed here.

He's had a rocky road up to this point. We're the first team to invest real time in him as a mature player, and he played well. Certainly well enough to give him another cheap look, especially when we're likely to be weak at his position. Keeping him is a no-brainer.
He is farrrrr down the list of To-Do
Kuznetsov
Oshie
Orlov
Burakovksy
A legit top 6 playmaker/goal scorer
Schmidt
Las Vegas takes one of our player
Connolly


I'll concede that if they want him yeah resign him for cheap but he can't move off the 4th line. His maximum value in my eyes is a skilled 4RW. Maybe he can learn to PK but if he asks for more than 1.5 he isn't worth it.

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05-15-2017, 11:20 AM
  #47
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My top 5 possible FA

Oshie
Vrbata
Vanek
Williams-If he wants to stay
And a controversial one....
Jagr-Yes i remember his last time here. He was a ***** and a pain in the *** to deal with. But he can still play. And before you say Leonsis, who does he love more than anyone else in the world? OV. OV is also good friends with Jagr as well, so have him play peacekeeper

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05-15-2017, 11:21 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by OV Rocks View Post
He is farrrrr down the list of To-Do
Kuznetsov
Oshie
Orlov
Burakovksy
A legit top 6 playmaker/goal scorer
Schmidt
Las Vegas takes one of our player
Connolly


I'll concede that if they want him yeah resign him for cheap but he can't move off the 4th line. His maximum value in my eyes is a skilled 4RW. Maybe he can learn to PK but if he asks for more than 1.5 he isn't worth it.
We need a goal scorer not playmaker. We might as well keep Mojo then.

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05-15-2017, 11:33 AM
  #49
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We need a goal scorer not playmaker. We might as well keep Mojo then.
Meant it as alittle bit of both. I consider Oshie a playmaker. Creates for others around him but also finishes. Probably a poor choice of words on my part. Kane, Crosby, Tarasenko are all playmakers but also have finish in them.

Need a 30 goal 40 assist guy on top of Ovechkin, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Burakovsky, and Oshie.

Just near impossible to do

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05-15-2017, 12:00 PM
  #50
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My top 5 possible FA

Oshie
Vrbata
Vanek
Williams-If he wants to stay
And a controversial one....
Jagr-Yes i remember his last time here. He was a ***** and a pain in the *** to deal with. But he can still play. And before you say Leonsis, who does he love more than anyone else in the world? OV. OV is also good friends with Jagr as well, so have him play peacekeeper


Hell no to Jagr. He is slower than Nate Schmidt without legs

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