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Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXXII -- (Caps submit expansion protect list)

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Old
05-15-2017, 12:50 PM
  #51
Acallabeth
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Originally Posted by PB12 View Post
Jagr-Yes i remember his last time here. He was a ***** and a pain in the *** to deal with. But he can still play. And before you say Leonsis, who does he love more than anyone else in the world? OV. OV is also good friends with Jagr as well, so have him play peacekeeper
Jagr has 1 playoff goal since 2008.

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Originally Posted by OV Rocks View Post
Need a 30 goal 40 assist guy on top of Ovechkin, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Burakovsky, and Oshie.

Just near impossible to do
Yeah, top 20 NHL scorers don't lay on the road.

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05-15-2017, 01:00 PM
  #52
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Jagr has 1 playoff goal since 2008.


Yeah, top 20 NHL scorers don't lay on the road.
It is certainly not easy that's for sure. The don't come along often but now is when the Caps have to be looking. The Penguins added Kessel when he was being shopped, Caps have to be doing the same. Looking up and down the leaders over the last couple of years there are a handful of guys that I think could be had, of course for a high price.

Duchene
Kucherov
Vorachek
Skinner
JVR

Anyone of those guys changes this team for the better.

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05-15-2017, 02:20 PM
  #53
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For me the decisive factor concerns culture. We have a losing culture in place, and guys like Niskanen and others admitted as much in interviews, it's clearly infected the room and even players recently acquired. The team is just drenched in this. I would clean out all this garbage because if you really think about it, when teams have just been this thoroughly drenched in bad karma, in choking, in ignominius failure, the only thing that has eventually lead to a title has been total rebuilds. We saw that with the Cubs, with the Cavs, we see the Browns doing that right now, we have seen that with the oilers, we saw that with the red sox, we saw that w/the seahawks, patriots and niners (niners in reverse). One can go on and on, but in cases of negative team culture on this scale, something serious needs to be done.

However it's equally crucial not to lose your mind and go Wizards '98, and trade Chris Webber for some used BMX tires, and a bakers dozen of Krispy Kreme doughnuts. When it comes clear that dynamite needs to be applied to the structure, good the bad and the ugly style, you need to do it delicately and intelligently to achieve your goal, you aren't going to trade a guy just to trade him, it needs to be done as a part of a coherent well organized plan.

I would begin dynamiting the system and building around our young good players who haven't been entirely infected by this malaise. I've heard this draft doesn't have a classic franchise player, anybody know about the quality of the '18 class?

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05-15-2017, 02:28 PM
  #54
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Old
05-15-2017, 02:31 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by The Consiglieri View Post
For me the decisive factor concerns culture. We have a losing culture in place, and guys like Niskanen and others admitted as much in interviews, it's clearly infected the room and even players recently acquired. The team is just drenched in this. I would clean out all this garbage because if you really think about it, when teams have just been this thoroughly drenched in bad karma, in choking, in ignominius failure, the only thing that has eventually lead to a title has been total rebuilds. We saw that with the Cubs, with the Cavs, we see the Browns doing that right now, we have seen that with the oilers, we saw that with the red sox, we saw that w/the seahawks, patriots and niners (niners in reverse). One can go on and on, but in cases of negative team culture on this scale, something serious needs to be done.

However it's equally crucial not to lose your mind and go Wizards '98, and trade Chris Webber for some used BMX tires, and a bakers dozen of Krispy Kreme doughnuts. When it comes clear that dynamite needs to be applied to the structure, good the bad and the ugly style, you need to do it delicately and intelligently to achieve your goal, you aren't going to trade a guy just to trade him, it needs to be done as a part of a coherent well organized plan.

I would begin dynamiting the system and building around our young good players who haven't been entirely infected by this malaise. I've heard this draft doesn't have a classic franchise player, anybody know about the quality of the '18 class?
Curious if anyone was put off by the Niskanen comment. Obviously it is the truth but don't really know if it is what he should be saying. Similar to Hotlby with his head coach.

Niskanen would be a nice trade chip if he doesn't like the culture

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05-15-2017, 02:40 PM
  #56
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Yes there's a losing culture. It's so bad I don't know if bringing in new players for the sake of new players fixes it. They'll just have to face the same questions and doubts. If they're not strong enough they'll be sucked under the waves as well.

I think you need a solid base of players who are immune to these things, and preferably those who have proven it. I'm not sure who would qualify right now. That or players whose character and work ethic bleeds "will do anything to win". Guys like that have a chance. All the skill in the world won't be enough if the attitudes are wrong.

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05-15-2017, 03:14 PM
  #57
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Post-apocalyptic Niskanen is the best Niskanen. He's a keeper.
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Originally Posted by The Consiglieri View Post
I've heard this draft doesn't have a classic franchise player, anybody know about the quality of the '18 class?
It's very strong at the top end. Rasmus Dahlin played in the WJC last winter. There's another Tkachuk who was excellent at the U18s and the same goes for the younger Svechnikov. Then there's Ryan Merkley, another very high-end defenseman.

MacLellan's exit interview last year was four days after everyone else. Not meeting potentially for weeks is interesting. He shouldn't need a fact-finding mission to dissect what went wrong but he should have answers by then and a plan. I don't think he needs to reveal that plan, even in general terms, beforehand but it will help turn the page toward the future. Player and ownership input seems like it could be pivotal.

I think the main problem is a lack of self-awareness in what they're missing. They're honest in wanting to get better but I don't get the sense their understanding of what they need to improve upon will have much impact ultimately. For that reason alone it's better to have a fresh voice laying out a new systematic approach and tone. Trotz didn't make Holtby leaky so it's unfair but that's the way it goes. It's hard to trust a coach to seek incremental improvement when his typical approach is to believe that any opponent will be a long slog of attrition. The only way that's viable is to dial back up the heaviness but even then it's not viable to keep Orpik largely for that reason. They need a different approach, a more balanced hockey IQ-based two-way game instead of the same looping, defense-first pressure and offensive freelancing with minor tweaks.

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05-15-2017, 04:08 PM
  #58
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Sure it is. Legions of professional athletes would LOVE to play in LA. Period. You asked why anyone would want to play there, and that's all you need to know.

But let's play your game. The Kings also had an elite young goaltender playing out of his mind, a generational #1 defender and good defense overall, and some noteworthy tools on offense. It certainly wasn't a bad place to be. And then, you know, Kardashians and Oscar parties and **** like that.
For someone who spent time whining about twisting words, is this really the angle you're going to pursue? Telling me what my argument meant and what my question was? Jumping to Revelation's defense regarding bad contracts, but then attempting to twist my words on this one into "there was no reason to play for LA in 2012" is hypocritical.

Revelation stated the reason that players wanted to go the extra mile for Lombardi is that Lombardi would "reward them in Valhalla." I was responded to that line of logic from Revelation. Thus why I started the sentence with "even if we accept your completely absurd premise." Nothing about the city of LA or signing a contract with LA even entered the picture. Your rants about Kardashians and goaltenders is not relevant to that discussion. And if they were relevant, they would agree with my point that giving out absurd contracts to prior cup winners is not the sole motivation for the team winning.

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05-15-2017, 04:51 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by OV Rocks View Post
Curious if anyone was put off by the Niskanen comment. Obviously it is the truth but don't really know if it is what he should be saying. Similar to Hotlby with his head coach.

Niskanen would be a nice trade chip if he doesn't like the culture
I don't think you trade Niskanen unless you're going for a 3 year rebuild type move. If anything, Trotz words have him on the out and Niskanen's has him on the right side. The fact Trotz just tried to laugh off his history instead of own it still irritates me.

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Yes there's a losing culture. It's so bad I don't know if bringing in new players for the sake of new players fixes it. They'll just have to face the same questions and doubts. If they're not strong enough they'll be sucked under the waves as well.

I think you need a solid base of players who are immune to these things, and preferably those who have proven it. I'm not sure who would qualify right now. That or players whose character and work ethic bleeds "will do anything to win". Guys like that have a chance. All the skill in the world won't be enough if the attitudes are wrong.
I think someone had a good point earlier with Nashville, though I'm not sure its so much the player as much as the move. Think of the Caps as just very still water, the weight/growth of failure is just overtaking it because they've had very little movement. Make a big trade (aka throw a rock in) and suddenly you have an opportunity to break up the filth and negativity.

Essentially I don't think trading for PK was what has revitalized the Preds so much as the fact they made a change to fix the status quo.

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Old
05-15-2017, 05:30 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by OV Rocks View Post
Curious if anyone was put off by the Niskanen comment. Obviously it is the truth but don't really know if it is what he should be saying. Similar to Hotlby with his head coach.

Niskanen would be a nice trade chip if he doesn't like the culture
I'm glad he said it. It's helpful. In terms of the team, it's obvious something is fundamentally wrong with it and mere cosmetic changes aren't going to help. Unfortunately the sense I get is a tinkering offseason to offset free agent hemorraghing and that's just going to postpone the inevitable collapse into sub-mediocrity or a complete tear down and delay any chance we have at winning the cup at least 3+ years longer than it needs to be. It's frustrating to be able to see this in front of us, but know that the franchise won't do anything about it other than perhaps really destructive changes by pawning future assets for patches in the present to a leaking boat that can't get us to the destination in the first place.

Just beyond frustrating to watch. They need to do a tear down, and they will not do it because of $$$$ despite knowing full well NOTHING they do with this team can bring us a cup with this core and any partial version of it. We will have to wait at bare minimum another half decade and probably a lot more to even come close to the chance we theoretically had this past season.

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05-15-2017, 05:45 PM
  #61
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Ok, haven't really dropped by here so not aware of the mood.... but I'm actually pretty ****ing pumped for next year! The reason is BMac. I have faith in him. Here's my offseason plan:

Fire Trotz, hire Sutter. We got out-coached in PIT series.

Here's my opening night line-up:

Ovie-Backy-Oshie
E Kane-Kuzy-Bura
Wilson-Eller-Williams
Upshall-Boyle-Conno

Vrana, Barber

Orlov-Nisky
Daley-Carly
Schmidty-Bowey

Chorns

Holts
Copley/FA

Up front we trade for Evander Kane and get a north-south power forward 30 goal scorer. Finisher who will play hard and be physical. Bura gets promotion to top 6 and Williams slots down to 3rd line. Boyle is an effective C who has been to multiple Cup Finals and Upshall is a good 4th liner who can play PK and chip in here and there. Call up young guys and see what they got during the year.

On back end. Target Daley as he shouldn't be too expensive and we've seen how important active D are in the playoffs. Give Bowey a shot.

Obviously we're losing guys. I have Mojo going the other way in the Kane trade (like 90 but salary cap thing plus you gotta give to get). Dump Orpik Laich-style (give somebody something to take him). Make a deal with McPhee to take Grubs in the expansion draft. Dump Beagle. Let Alzner, Winnik, Shattenkirk walk.

Niskanen says cosmetic changes won't do? Well this replaces 1 out of every 4 guys in the lineup when healthy. And a new coaching staff.

If we end up with the above, I will be very excited to watch next season!

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05-15-2017, 06:05 PM
  #62
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Ok, haven't really dropped by here so not aware of the mood.... but I'm actually pretty ****ing pumped for next year! The reason is BMac. I have faith in him. Here's my offseason plan:

Fire Trotz, hire Sutter. We got out-coached in PIT series.

Here's my opening night line-up:

Ovie-Backy-Oshie
E Kane-Kuzy-Bura
Wilson-Eller-Williams
Upshall-Boyle-Conno

Vrana, Barber

Orlov-Nisky
Daley-Carly
Schmidty-Bowey

Chorns

Holts
Copley/FA

Up front we trade for Evander Kane and get a north-south power forward 30 goal scorer. Finisher who will play hard and be physical. Bura gets promotion to top 6 and Williams slots down to 3rd line. Boyle is an effective C who has been to multiple Cup Finals and Upshall is a good 4th liner who can play PK and chip in here and there. Call up young guys and see what they got during the year.

On back end. Target Daley as he shouldn't be too expensive and we've seen how important active D are in the playoffs. Give Bowey a shot.

Obviously we're losing guys. I have Mojo going the other way in the Kane trade (like 90 but salary cap thing plus you gotta give to get). Dump Orpik Laich-style (give somebody something to take him). Make a deal with McPhee to take Grubs in the expansion draft. Dump Beagle. Let Alzner, Winnik, Shattenkirk walk.

Niskanen says cosmetic changes won't do? Well this replaces 1 out of every 4 guys in the lineup when healthy. And a new coaching staff.

If we end up with the above, I will be very excited to watch next season!
How in the world do the Caps even begin to afford all of this? I don't know how realistic this is unless guys are willing to take a paycut to stay here in DC.

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05-15-2017, 06:14 PM
  #63
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Well, let's see.

Trade Mojo: +$4.583M
Trade Orpik: +$5.5M
Trade Beagle: +$1.75M
Let Alzner walk: +$2.8M
Let Shatty walk: +$2.5925M
Let Winnik walk: +$2.25M
Trade for E Kane: -$5.25M

Leaves you with $14.2255 to give raises to Oshie, Orlov, Kuzy, Bura, Schmidt, Williams, Connolly and sign Boyle (made $2M), Upshall (made $900K) and Daley (made $3.3M).

It would be tight, but say you leave off Daley and move Schmidt to a top 4 role (not crazy), that saves a $3-$4m right there. Connolly and Williams wouldn't get big raises anyway.

Maybe not every move would work, but you could definitely use that as a framework and depending on how $ shake out land somewhere close.

And don't forget hiring Sutter to coach these guys!

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05-15-2017, 06:32 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by CapsSkins View Post
Well, let's see.

Trade Mojo: +$4.583M
Trade Orpik: +$5.5M
Trade Beagle: +$1.75M
Let Alzner walk: +$2.8M
Let Shatty walk: +$2.5925M
Let Winnik walk: +$2.25M
Trade for E Kane: -$5.25M

Leaves you with $14.2255 to give raises to Oshie, Orlov, Kuzy, Bura, Schmidt, Williams, Connolly and sign Boyle (made $2M), Upshall (made $900K) and Daley (made $3.3M).

It would be tight, but say you leave off Daley and move Schmidt to a top 4 role (not crazy), that saves a $3-$4m right there. Connolly and Williams wouldn't get big raises anyway.

Maybe not every move would work, but you could definitely use that as a framework and depending on how $ shake out land somewhere close.

And don't forget hiring Sutter to coach these guys!
ummmmm no

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05-15-2017, 06:45 PM
  #65
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The offseason figures to bring significant changes to the Capitals’ roster, with only 11 players under contract.

Trotz is the only coach MacLellan has worked with since he was promoted to general manager three years ago. After the Capitals’ season ended Wednesday night, MacLellan met with each player individually on Friday and then planned to spend time with individual members of the coaching staff this week. Ahead of those meetings, there wasn’t certainty in the organization on whether the Capitals would bring back Trotz for a fourth season.

Coaching turnover could be coming to the Capitals even if Trotz returns for next season. This season was the last on goaltending coach Mitch Korn’s contract, and whether an extension is in the works for him is unclear. Associate coach Todd Reirden is reportedly set to interview with the Florida Panthers for their vacant head-coaching position, and he is also considered a candidate in Buffalo. He could be a candidate in Washington if the head job became open. If the Capitals wanted someone with Stanley Cup-coaching experience, Darryl Sutter won two championships with the Los Angeles Kings before being fired after this season. Dan Bylsma, who won a Stanley Cup with the Penguins in 2009, is also available after he was recently ousted in Buffalo.
updates on coaches from isabelle

also

Quote:
The review following Washington’s second-round loss to the Pittsburgh Penguins has delayed MacLellan’s season-review news conference with reporters. In the past, MacLellan has typically held his end-of-season meeting with media within a week of the Capitals’ last loss, and the delay has prompted some speculation that a shake-up could be coming.

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05-15-2017, 06:50 PM
  #66
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ummmmm no
I bet it happens

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05-15-2017, 06:54 PM
  #67
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I bet it happens
but why? 5.25 for a player worse then mojo?

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05-15-2017, 06:57 PM
  #68
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but why? 5.25 for a player worse then mojo?
Worse than Mojo? Kane is a north-south power forward 30 goal scorer who got 28 this year and would have got 30 again had he not missed 12 games. Mojo's career high came this year at 24.

Kane is closer to Oshie than he is to Mojo. You trade for him and you got Ovie, Kaner, Oshie and Wilson throwing their weight around up and down the lineup.

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05-15-2017, 06:59 PM
  #69
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Worse than Mojo? Kane is a north-south power forward 30 goal scorer who got 28 this year and would have got 30 again had he not missed 12 games. Mojo's career high came this year at 24.

Kane is closer to Oshie than he is to Mojo. You trade for him and you got Ovie, Kaner, Oshie and Wilson throwing their weight around up and down the lineup.
only scored 20 goals in 2 out of 5 past seasons

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05-15-2017, 07:00 PM
  #70
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only scored 20 goals in 2 out of 5 past seasons
Has a north-south game that we need right now. 90 is more redundant on this team than E Kane.

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05-15-2017, 07:04 PM
  #71
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Has a north-south game that we need right now. 90 is more redundant on this team than E Kane.
fair but at 5.25 mil for only one season?

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05-15-2017, 07:07 PM
  #72
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fair but at 5.25 mil for only one season?
Not great but he brings what we need and is available. The fantasy is Simmonds but that ain't gonna happen, right?

I have a suspicion BMac fires Trotz and hires Sutter. If he does, I'd look for them to get a guy like E Kane to re-tool for a heavier style of play.

Hey, we have plenty of time to see how things play out. These are just my predictions / preferences.

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05-15-2017, 07:18 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by CapsSkins View Post
Not great but he brings what we need and is available. The fantasy is Simmonds but that ain't gonna happen, right?

I have a suspicion BMac fires Trotz and hires Sutter. If he does, I'd look for them to get a guy like E Kane to re-tool for a heavier style of play.

Hey, we have plenty of time to see how things play out. These are just my predictions / preferences.
and you could be right

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05-15-2017, 07:24 PM
  #74
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and you could be right
Just like my prediction that this was our year to beat the Pens and win the Cup!

I did call the Shattenkirk trade.

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05-15-2017, 07:38 PM
  #75
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I still think this group is salvageable with a legit top tier head coach.

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