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Old
05-15-2017, 04:33 PM
  #51
Whileee
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Originally Posted by Hockeyisl1fe View Post
He is basically a clone of Markus Nutivaara. Labelled as an offensive dman, but improved steadily his defensive game in the FEL. Excellent pick in the 7th round, congrats.
Great if he's similar to Nuutivara.

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05-15-2017, 04:35 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Hockeyisl1fe View Post
He is basically a clone of Markus Nutivaara. Labelled as an offensive dman, but improved steadily his defensive game in the FEL. Excellent pick in the 7th round, congrats.
I want both!

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05-15-2017, 05:30 PM
  #53
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Very happy to get Niku signed. Looking forward to what he can bring. I'm assuming he will be with the Moose next season.

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05-15-2017, 08:51 PM
  #54
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It's possible in theory but the AHL is a more likely destination if he doesn't stick with the Jets.
I wonder if the transfer agreement don't potentially play a hiccup with that. He's under contract to JYP for the next season, it may be that if he doesn't make it to the NHL roster from the get-go he must be offered back to JYP before he can be sent to AHL, and it would be JYP's call.

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05-15-2017, 09:05 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Lempo View Post
I wonder if the transfer agreement don't potentially play a hiccup with that. He's under contract to JYP for the next season, it may be that if he doesn't make it to the NHL roster from the get-go he must be offered back to JYP before he can be sent to AHL, and it would be JYP's call.
Possibly, but that makes little sense on the Jets end as imo they see little chance in him making the NHL next year. If imagine they want him in NA working on his game.

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05-15-2017, 09:44 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Lempo View Post
I wonder if the transfer agreement don't potentially play a hiccup with that. He's under contract to JYP for the next season, it may be that if he doesn't make it to the NHL roster from the get-go he must be offered back to JYP before he can be sent to AHL, and it would be JYP's call.
The transfer agreements are not worded as such. JYP gets paid a straight fee for the transfer and the contract is now the Jets. The remaining years on the JYP contract are irrelevant.

Now it is possible that the Jets have made a verbal promise to the effect that if he fails to make the Jets he will be loaned back to JYP, but that's all that can be. JYP will have to agree to any loan next year, but ultimately the choice lies with the Jets. NHL SPC's are standardized and don't have a space for condition as such you suggest.

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05-15-2017, 09:52 PM
  #57
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Why don't we just go to shark club that's right we can't, no re-entry
There has got to be some way to sneak in a mickey...

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05-15-2017, 10:41 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
The transfer agreements are not worded as such. JYP gets paid a straight fee for the transfer and the contract is now the Jets. The remaining years on the JYP contract are irrelevant.

Now it is possible that the Jets have made a verbal promise to the effect that if he fails to make the Jets he will be loaned back to JYP, but that's all that can be. JYP will have to agree to any loan next year, but ultimately the choice lies with the Jets. NHL SPC's are standardized and don't have a space for condition as such you suggest.
The general transfer agreement between SM-Liiga and NHL very much has a stipulation about young players who are under contract to SML team and who get drafted outside the 1sr round, that unless they make to the NHL roster the SML team get first dips before AHL.

Janne Kuokkanen, who recently signed himself to Carolina for example plays the next season either in Canes or Kärpät, as very staunchly noted by the Kärpät GM recently.

I believe it applies to Niku, I don't know how JYP is going to go with it, I'm lead to believe that Jets get full control only if he plays in Jets enough for the ELC to start burning.

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05-15-2017, 10:52 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Lempo View Post
The general transfer agreement between SM-Liiga and NHL very much has a stipulation about young players who are under contract to SML team and who get drafted outside the 1sr round, that unless they make to the NHL roster the SML team get first dips before AHL.

Janne Kuokkanen, who recently signed himself to Carolina for example plays the next season either in Canes or Kärpät, as very staunchly noted by the Kärpät GM recently.

I believe it applies to Niku, I don't know how JYP is going to go with it, I'm lead to believe that Jets get full control only if he plays in Jets enough for the ELC to start burning.
ELC runs next year no matter what. Whether he is in NHL, AHL, SML, anywhere.

This clause has never been talked about or mentioned before. I've never heard of it. This is likely an agreement Carolina worked out with Kuokkanen rather than a transfer agreement issue.

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05-15-2017, 10:58 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
ELC runs next year no matter what. Whether he is in NHL, AHL, SML, anywhere.

This clause has never been talked about or mentioned before. I've never heard of it. This is likely an agreement Carolina worked out with Kuokkanen rather than a transfer agreement issue.
Kids under 20 have their ELC slide if they play max 9 games up in NHL, and will still have three years to serve. This doesn't apply to Niku who's 20 but I don't know if it is the determining factor in the transfer agreement.

But, returning a player who don't make it to the NHL roster is a real thing agreed on uppermost level, I'm not imagining it. There are limitations obviously, and the particulars are difficult to come by. The transfer agreement exists and has this clause, but I don't know if the text is open to the public. But, the SML team honchos refer to it in interviews and sometimes let on how it applies to a given player like in Kuokkanen case.


Last edited by Lempo; 05-15-2017 at 11:08 PM..
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Old
05-15-2017, 11:06 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Lempo View Post
Kids under 20 have their ELC slide if they play max 9 games up in NHL, and will still have three years to serve.

It's a real thing agreed on uppermost level, I'm not imagining it.
Niku is not under 20. Next year will be his 21 year old year. He has no slide eligible years. I am well aware of the CBA rules. That's where I know I'm on solid footing.

The transfer agreement is something that is shrouded in mystery as they aren't publicly available. I've never heard of a clause that forces teams to send players back to Europe, which is odd considering how long those transfer agreements have been in place.

There are most certainly handshake agreements that happen all the time about Europeans coming over. IMO it's more likely that this has been the case and it gets lost in translation. I believe that the Canes did guarantee that to the player, I just don't think it's mandated. Unless someone can show me the transfer agreement, it'd be an odd thing to show up after all this time.

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05-15-2017, 11:10 PM
  #62
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Niku will be 21 by October, just in time for the season to start. He won't be eligible for his ELC to slide no matter how many games he does or doesn't play.

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05-15-2017, 11:27 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
The transfer agreement is something that is shrouded in mystery as they aren't publicly available. I've never heard of a clause that forces teams to send players back to Europe, which is odd considering how long those transfer agreements have been in place.
The wording I think it "has to be offered". The SML team has the choice, and they can let the player go anyway, and without a doubt discusses the matter with him. But, it's a NHL transfer agreement. No matter how the farm system works in the Americas, it doesn't make so much sense for SML teams to send their interesting talented young players to play in 2nd league there when they are badly needed in the 1st league back home.

The ELC slide came only up because obviously the player at some point will have been solidly claimed to the NHL system, and it may be an amount of games played there that possibly voids the obligation to return the player at some point. It may be the 9 game limit as with ELCs, or something else. I vaguely remember it'd be a one-year option for the SML team and kind of limited as is, and only available for the younger not first round kids perhaps. It may be not many players have really matched the conditions until recently.

I brought the matter up only to gouge if a fellow Finn might maybe have a better knowledge of if there may be this thing coming up regarding Niku.

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05-15-2017, 11:43 PM
  #64
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The International Ice Hockey Federation and the NHL inched closer to a transfer agreement after the NHL conceded too many young Europeans are playing in North American minor leagues.
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The NHL agreed to a proposal that any player still under contract to an IIHF team who has not reached his 20th birthday must be offered back to his team in Europe.

The new proposal raises the age limit by two years from 18 but will not include players taken in the first round of the NHL draft.
http://www.eurosport.com/ice-hockey/...00/story.shtml

Probably old but this is what's it about. But, if this holds, it doesn't affect Niku who is overaged. It hasn't been a big deal as not that many high-profile U20s have been coming over until lately.

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05-16-2017, 02:00 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Lempo View Post
http://www.eurosport.com/ice-hockey/...00/story.shtml

Probably old but this is what's it about. But, if this holds, it doesn't affect Niku who is overaged. It hasn't been a big deal as not that many high-profile U20s have been coming over until lately.
Good find. As these agreements have been in place for a while this is likely the clause stipulated. I did not know about this, so that's interesting. As you say it likely does not effect Niku due to his age. Generally European players cross over either before being drafted (ie drafted out of CHL/NCAA) or after they turn 20 which is likely why this is not used very often. This makes sense as to why most of the teenagers that play in AHL are Russian (they lack a transfer agreement).

I'd be really shocked if Niku is anywhere but the Moose next year.

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05-16-2017, 06:19 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Good find. As these agreements have been in place for a while this is likely the clause stipulated. I did not know about this, so that's interesting. As you say it likely does not effect Niku due to his age. Generally European players cross over either before being drafted (ie drafted out of CHL/NCAA) or after they turn 20 which is likely why this is not used very often. This makes sense as to why most of the teenagers that play in AHL are Russian (they lack a transfer agreement).

I'd be really shocked if Niku is anywhere but the Moose next year.
Interesting discussion you and Lempo had regarding transfer agreements, but I also would be shocked not to see Niku with the Moose next season. You'd think the Jets would want him to take the next developmental step playing on the smaller NA ice surface.

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05-16-2017, 06:30 AM
  #67
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He has been listed as 6'0, 176lbs since his draft -1 season but I'd say that's pretty close to correct.
So, opposing teams will just dump the puck in his corner and then pound him on the forecheck, just like Enstrom?

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05-16-2017, 06:31 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Good find. As these agreements have been in place for a while this is likely the clause stipulated. I did not know about this, so that's interesting. As you say it likely does not effect Niku due to his age. Generally European players cross over either before being drafted (ie drafted out of CHL/NCAA) or after they turn 20 which is likely why this is not used very often. This makes sense as to why most of the teenagers that play in AHL are Russian (they lack a transfer agreement).

I'd be really shocked if Niku is anywhere but the Moose next year.
The teenagers being mostly Russians absolutely makes sense as, as we know, in the North American end the CHL have their own restrictions for players under 20 (or thereabouts) going into AHL if they don't make it to the NHL roster. Draisaitl I understand went back to CHL after having played enough in NHL to burn the first year off his ELC, which from the development point of view should be less than optimal thing to do.

The transfer agreement was (falsely) guessed to be the reason why EDM chose to keep Jesse Puljujarvi up for so long (to have it negated), but obviously (as it later seeped out) it wouldn't have affected him as a first round pick anyway. My example Janne Kuokkanen on the other hand is 18 and a 2nd rounder from the 2016 Draft and very much affected by it. He had a year in London last season and appeared in Charlotte for a couple of games, but at least at this point Sebastian Aho's dad is strictly ruling out a second year in juniors in NA.

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05-16-2017, 06:35 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
Interesting discussion you and Lempo had regarding transfer agreements, but I also would be shocked not to see Niku with the Moose next season. You'd think the Jets would want him to take the next developmental step playing on the smaller NA ice surface.
I am torn. There are late draft round euro picks like John Klingberg and Toby Enstrom that took four seasons after being drafted in Europe to really bake to completion who were ready to step into the NHL. I love the AHL for developing North American kids (or most Euro CHL prospects) but am less enamoured with it for non Blue chip Europeans who have not played in North American leagues. I would have probably kept him in Finland for one more season but I know I am alone on this.


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05-16-2017, 06:41 AM
  #70
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I am torn. There are late draft round euro picks like John Klingberg and Toby Enstrom that took four seasons after being drafted in Europe to really bake to completion who were ready to step into the NHL. I love the AHL for developing North American kids (our most Euro CHL prospects) but am less enamoured with it for non Blue chip Europeans who have not played in North American leagues. I would have probably kept him in Finland for one more season but I know I am alone on this.
The Swedes share your pain regarding their guys in this BoH thread from two months back:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...#post129235523

(Sweden wants to keep their prospects, not see them in AHL)

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05-16-2017, 07:13 AM
  #71
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I am torn. There are late draft round euro picks like John Klingberg and Toby Enstrom that took four seasons after being drafted in Europe to really bake to completion who were ready to step into the NHL. I love the AHL for developing North American kids (our most Euro CHL prospects) but am less enamoured with it for non Blue chip Europeans who have not played in North American leagues. I would have probably kept him in Finland for one more season but I know I am alone on this.
There is even something to it with higher picks like Tarasenko and even other higher profile guys like Panarin. Sometimes letting them bake in Euro leagues and Russia is the way to go. AHL might not necessarily be the best development path of all players.

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05-16-2017, 08:00 AM
  #72
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The wording I think it "has to be offered". The SML team has the choice, and they can let the player go anyway, and without a doubt discusses the matter with him. But, it's a NHL transfer agreement. No matter how the farm system works in the Americas, it doesn't make so much sense for SML teams to send their interesting talented young players to play in 2nd league there when they are badly needed in the 1st league back home.
I think a lot of players can benefit from playing a year in the AHL so they don’t need to adapt to the North American game and lifestyle AND adjust to the tougher league at the same time. If a player is more than a year away and not ready for at least spot call-up’s due to injury they should stay in Europe.

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05-16-2017, 08:07 AM
  #73
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I think in Niku's case his weaknesses defensively and the other stuff he needs to work on are probably better addressed in the smaller ice. But that is just my opinion.

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05-16-2017, 09:01 AM
  #74
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I think in Niku's case his weaknesses defensively and the other stuff he needs to work on are probably better addressed in the smaller ice. But that is just my opinion.
+1. Niku's playing style is basically Sami Vatanen with better skating. How good he can get remains to be seen, but the potential definitely is there. Great 7th round pick.

One full year in AHL learning to not be a defensive liability in NA ice can do wonders for his game. I don't see a reason for him staying in Liiga.

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05-16-2017, 09:17 AM
  #75
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Is his size a concern?

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