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Old
05-16-2017, 09:18 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by broinwhyteridge View Post
Is his size a concern?
Nope but he doesn't play an overly aggressive or tenascious game defensively.

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05-16-2017, 09:45 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by DaJackal View Post
+1. Niku's playing style is basically Sami Vatanen with better skating. How good he can get remains to be seen, but the potential definitely is there. Great 7th round pick.

One full year in AHL learning to not be a defensive liability in NA ice can do wonders for his game. I don't see a reason for him staying in Liiga.
So Niku skates better than Vatanen? If so that is pretty impressive and quite the bonus for us and you have me even more pumped.

It's a good debate and for the record after being a 4th round pick Vatanen came over to play in the AHL for Norfork in his draft +4 season which is one year later than Niku (assuming Niku plays for the Moose this season).

How Vatanen was handled by the Ducks is what I am talking about (letting him develop in Europe for 3 full seasons after his draft)......take lots of time to let them over ripen in europe until they are older, more mature, and very ready. Once Sami V made the jump to Norfork he put up 45 points in 62 games which was just slightly less than his productivity in his last year in SM-liiga. He was ready to dominate in the AHL not just hang in.

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05-16-2017, 10:13 AM
  #78
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I think in Niku's case his weaknesses defensively and the other stuff he needs to work on are probably better addressed in the smaller ice. But that is just my opinion.
I think this is true. He needs to make the transition to smaller ice anyway, so it's probably for the better to re-think his game there.

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05-16-2017, 04:01 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Lempo View Post
The Swedes share your pain regarding their guys in this BoH thread from two months back:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...#post129235523

(Sweden wants to keep their prospects, not see them in AHL)
I forgot to thank you for this link.....so.....thank you Lempo!

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05-16-2017, 06:22 PM
  #80
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The wording I think it "has to be offered". The SML team has the choice, and they can let the player go anyway, and without a doubt discusses the matter with him. But, it's a NHL transfer agreement. No matter how the farm system works in the Americas, it doesn't make so much sense for SML teams to send their interesting talented young players to play in 2nd league there when they are badly needed in the 1st league back home.

The ELC slide came only up because obviously the player at some point will have been solidly claimed to the NHL system, and it may be an amount of games played there that possibly voids the obligation to return the player at some point. It may be the 9 game limit as with ELCs, or something else. I vaguely remember it'd be a one-year option for the SML team and kind of limited as is, and only available for the younger not first round kids perhaps. It may be not many players have really matched the conditions until recently.

I brought the matter up only to gouge if a fellow Finn might maybe have a better knowledge of if there may be this thing coming up regarding Niku.
The bolded may be the primary basis of why he was given such a high contract as a 7th rounder? Kind of a bonus to play in the A rather than at home until the Jets deem him ready for the show. Moose are in dire need of shoring up their defence and what better way than to do that than bringing in guys with potential and that are their property in hopes that they graduate to the big club. Nevertheless, they must be high on him to be willing to pry him away to allow him to develop in NA rather than in Finland.

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05-16-2017, 07:02 PM
  #81
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Nutivaara might be a solid comparison. But... He actually outscored Nutivaara in Liiga, while being well over a year younger. And I do consider Niku more talented.

Considering Jets' depth and that LHD is a big need, I wouldn't be surprised if Niku makes the team. I'm not expecting it, certainly, but it's an actual possibility in my eyes.

No one was expecting Nutivaara to make Jackets either, and he turned out to be a solid third pairing defenseman.

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05-16-2017, 07:52 PM
  #82
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Nutivaara might be a solid comparison. But... He actually outscored Nutivaara in Liiga, while being well over a year younger. And I do consider Niku more talented.

Considering Jets' depth and that LHD is a big need, I wouldn't be surprised if Niku makes the team. I'm not expecting it, certainly, but it's an actual possibility in my eyes.

No one was expecting Nutivaara to make Jackets either, and he turned out to be a solid third pairing defenseman.
Even if he makes a real strong push that would be something special. A big problem last season is we had few options for defenseman call-ups on ELC's so you are stuck having guys like Melchiori and Strait as your 9/10 depth on the Moose. Anything better not on an ELC would just get plucked away. Going into this season we now have Poolman, Niku and Nogier as D on ELC's that can be brought back and forth to fill in for injuries. Assuming none start with the Jets. Even if one does we are much better off for depth with the Moose.

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05-16-2017, 08:26 PM
  #83
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Jets D depth for 2017-18

Top 6

Morrissay.......... Trouba
CHIAROTT........BUFF
ENSTROM..........MYERS

Press box....
STUART..........POOLMAN (shoulder?)

Moose

Niku..............Nogier
Melchiori......... Kostelak

Junior

Stanley..........Green

2017 draft

- LD 1ST Round
- LD 2nd Round
- Rd 3 rd Round




-Stuart only in the press box due to his contract and veteran respect.

- POOLMAN is a ? Mark due to his shoulder surgery. He may not be a 100% until 2018 . Just like Fehr in the Jets first year back.

-Nogier impressed me playing a simple safe game as a 6 X-Men in the N.HL for 10 . games last year. I put him above Niku for the simple fact that he already has N.H.L experience and did not fall flat on his face. I do have higher expectations for Niku than Nogier.

-Kostelak has fallen off the prospect map. He has been a disappointment at the pro level.

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05-17-2017, 02:02 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
So Niku skates better than Vatanen? If so that is pretty impressive and quite the bonus for us and you have me even more pumped.

It's a good debate and for the record after being a 4th round pick Vatanen came over to play in the AHL for Norfork in his draft +4 season which is one year later than Niku (assuming Niku plays for the Moose this season).

How Vatanen was handled by the Ducks is what I am talking about (letting him develop in Europe for 3 full seasons after his draft)......take lots of time to let them over ripen in europe until they are older, more mature, and very ready. Once Sami V made the jump to Norfork he put up 45 points in 62 games which was just slightly less than his productivity in his last year in SM-liiga. He was ready to dominate in the AHL not just hang in.
I don't consider Vatanens straight line top speed elite, he's a good/great skater but no Niku.

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Originally Posted by ijuka View Post
Nutivaara might be a solid comparison. But... He actually outscored Nutivaara in Liiga, while being well over a year younger. And I do consider Niku more talented.

Considering Jets' depth and that LHD is a big need, I wouldn't be surprised if Niku makes the team. I'm not expecting it, certainly, but it's an actual possibility in my eyes.

No one was expecting Nutivaara to make Jackets either, and he turned out to be a solid third pairing defenseman.
With Stuart gone he could actualy make it, the level of competition is expected to drop

Jets could have a really well skating defense mixed with smaller LD's and bigger, more physical RD's.


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05-17-2017, 02:06 AM
  #85
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rest assured hes not making the team any time soon. if ever.


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05-17-2017, 02:16 AM
  #86
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rest assured hes not making the team any time soon. if ever.
What's your reasoning behind this "hot take"? Why won't he?

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05-17-2017, 02:43 AM
  #87
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The bolded may be the primary basis of why he was given such a high contract as a 7th rounder? Kind of a bonus to play in the A rather than at home until the Jets deem him ready for the show. Moose are in dire need of shoring up their defence and what better way than to do that than bringing in guys with potential and that are their property in hopes that they graduate to the big club. Nevertheless, they must be high on him to be willing to pry him away to allow him to develop in NA rather than in Finland.
It *seems* that Niku falls outside of the obligation of needing to offer him back to the SML team, so there's no reason there to entice him with anything extra, and anyway it would really need to be the SML team rather than the player who should need enticing for it, and the Jets aren't allowed to do any of that on top of the standard transfer fee.

But, he's already a pro player of at least two years, and because of reasons you mention had some negotiating power on his side, so maybe that's the reason. Fun contract, 2 x $182.500 and $60.000 in performance bonuses, to make it to total of $925.000 per if he plays in the N and gets it. Probs not, if he is expected to play in Moose mostly.

CapFriendly also has it that he has 'European Assignment' clause in his ELC, one that has given some agitation at the Pens' pens over 22 years old Lukas Bengtsson:

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Lately, one little detail has been noticed and is sticking in the craw of Pens fans. The great website General Fanager (citing themselves) reports that Bengtsson has a "European Assignment Clause" in his two year NHL entry level contract. Meaning if the Pens want to send him to the minors, he has option to go back to play in Europe instead of riding the bus and making a $70k salary. This has lead to a seeming growing belief or perception among Penguins fans (at least something I've heard a little) that Bengtsson would be bolting back if/when he doesn't make the NHL team.
http://www.pensburgh.com/2016/7/21/1...an-nhl-or-bust

Probably a non-factor. There seems to be quite a lot of those in the Euro contracts.

But, as education to us all:

CBA 11.19 Loan to Clubs Outside North America. The SPC of any Player may contain a clause that provides that, in the event his NHL Club Loans the Player to a club outside the NHL, during the period of such Loan, the Player shall have the option to be Loaned to a club of his choice outside North America. The clause may relieve the NHL Club of the obligation to pay the Player his Paragraph 1 Salary for the duration of such Loan if such relief is expressly stated in the provision, but the NHL Club shall otherwise be responsible for all other payments due to the Player by the NHL Club pursuant to his SPC. Such clause shall be subject to any applicable Player Transfer Agreement between the NHL and a hockey federation and/or the IIHF in effect, at the time of the Loan. The Player shall be permitted to make financial arrangements for compensation and other benefits with the club outside North America for the duration of the Loan, which financial compensation and benefits shall not be included in Averaged Club Salary, Actual Club Salary, League-wide Player Compensation or the Players' Share. The Club shall be required to provide to the NHL and the NHLPA in accordance with Exhibit 3 any loan agreement entered into in relation to such Loan by no later than 5:00 p.m. New York time on the day following the day the Club has received the executed loan agreement.


Last edited by Lempo: 05-17-2017 at 03:09 AM.
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05-17-2017, 03:08 AM
  #88
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I forgot to thank you for this link.....so.....thank you Lempo!
No probs.

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05-17-2017, 05:03 AM
  #89
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Niku was a small boy in mens league when the playoffs started so thinking he could actually make the big league next season is ... well it's something

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05-17-2017, 06:36 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Lempo View Post
It *seems* that Niku falls outside of the obligation of needing to offer him back to the SML team, so there's no reason there to entice him with anything extra, and anyway it would really need to be the SML team rather than the player who should need enticing for it, and the Jets aren't allowed to do any of that on top of the standard transfer fee.

But, he's already a pro player of at least two years, and because of reasons you mention had some negotiating power on his side, so maybe that's the reason. Fun contract, 2 x $182.500 and $60.000 in performance bonuses, to make it to total of $925.000 per if he plays in the N and gets it. Probs not, if he is expected to play in Moose mostly.

CapFriendly also has it that he has 'European Assignment' clause in his ELC, one that has given some agitation at the Pens' pens over 22 years old Lukas Bengtsson:



http://www.pensburgh.com/2016/7/21/1...an-nhl-or-bust

Probably a non-factor. There seems to be quite a lot of those in the Euro contracts.

But, as education to us all:

CBA 11.19 Loan to Clubs Outside North America. The SPC of any Player may contain a clause that provides that, in the event his NHL Club Loans the Player to a club outside the NHL, during the period of such Loan, the Player shall have the option to be Loaned to a club of his choice outside North America. The clause may relieve the NHL Club of the obligation to pay the Player his Paragraph 1 Salary for the duration of such Loan if such relief is expressly stated in the provision, but the NHL Club shall otherwise be responsible for all other payments due to the Player by the NHL Club pursuant to his SPC. Such clause shall be subject to any applicable Player Transfer Agreement between the NHL and a hockey federation and/or the IIHF in effect, at the time of the Loan. The Player shall be permitted to make financial arrangements for compensation and other benefits with the club outside North America for the duration of the Loan, which financial compensation and benefits shall not be included in Averaged Club Salary, Actual Club Salary, League-wide Player Compensation or the Players' Share. The Club shall be required to provide to the NHL and the NHLPA in accordance with Exhibit 3 any loan agreement entered into in relation to such Loan by no later than 5:00 p.m. New York time on the day following the day the Club has received the executed loan agreement.
Any idea what Niku was making in Finland playing Pro?

I remember listening to a Russian journalist and when the subject turned to Telegin he said he was not suprised Ivan bolted from St Johns and never came back because Russian kids don't grow up dreaming of "riding the bus" in the AHL when they turn pro. He said for most Russian kids it's NHL or KHL.

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05-17-2017, 06:46 AM
  #91
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rest assured hes not making the team any time soon. if ever.
And how do you know this? Because he was a 7th round pick. I recall him being projected to go in the 2nd or 3rd round in his draft year. Not sure why he fell but the talent seems to be there. Since then he has played 2 years pro hockey in Finland with a bit of a break out season last year. 27 points in 59 games. He definitely can skate and move the puck. Very likely he starts in the A, but he will get his opportunity at some point. At the very minimum he is a nice add to our defenseman depth.

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05-17-2017, 07:50 AM
  #92
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Any idea what Niku was making in Finland playing Pro?
I have no idea, but Laine got from Tappara about €30.000 in calendar year 2015 at 17 or so, so maybe that's about the magnitude class we're talking about.

Talented kids seem to be signed at or around 17 for three or so year contracts, so maybe the team gets a bit of bargain there in AAV. Also it's a bit hard to think that the potential NHL transfer prospects wouldn't factor in to the length they get offered, to secure the transfer fees and the possibility to get the player back if he doesn't make it to the NHL roster.

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05-17-2017, 08:14 AM
  #93
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I don't consider Vatanens straight line top speed elite, he's a good/great skater but no Niku.
Vatanen was the best player in Liiga for his last two seasons, did whatever he wanted on the ice at times. Iv'e never seen a better skater in Liiga besides Erik Karlsson's lockout stint and I'm actually surprised Vatanen isn't a star in the NHL but "only" a top-3 defender on a western conference contender.

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05-17-2017, 08:17 AM
  #94
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I have no idea, but Laine got from Tappara about €30.000 in calendar year 2015 at 17 or so, so maybe that's about the magnitude class we're talking about.

Talented kids seem to be signed at or around 17 for three or so year contracts, so maybe the team gets a bit of bargain there in AAV. Also it's a bit hard to think that the potential NHL transfer prospects wouldn't factor in to the length they get offered, to secure the transfer fees and the possibility to get the player back if he doesn't make it to the NHL roster.
The contracts of these young talented kids are fixed every year. If you show that you can play in Liiga you'll get a huge raise. Niko Mikkola who is same age as Niku will make 150k next year but he is miles better than Niku thought.

You make more money in Liiga than with 2-way NHL contract.

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Vatanen was the best player in Liiga for his last two seasons, did whatever he wanted on the ice at times. Iv'e never seen a better skater in Liiga besides Erik Karlsson's lockout stint and I'm actually surprised Vatanen isn't a star in the NHL but "only" a top-3 defender on a western conference contender.
Yeah gotta agree with you there. Niku is not even on the same page as Vatanen was when he left Liiga. On the other hand Vatanen didn't become as good as we tought he would after those monster seasons with Jyp.

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05-17-2017, 08:27 AM
  #95
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So Niku skates better than Vatanen? If so that is pretty impressive and quite the bonus for us and you have me even more pumped.

It's a good debate and for the record after being a 4th round pick Vatanen came over to play in the AHL for Norfork in his draft +4 season which is one year later than Niku (assuming Niku plays for the Moose this season).

How Vatanen was handled by the Ducks is what I am talking about (letting him develop in Europe for 3 full seasons after his draft)......take lots of time to let them over ripen in europe until they are older, more mature, and very ready. Once Sami V made the jump to Norfork he put up 45 points in 62 games which was just slightly less than his productivity in his last year in SM-liiga. He was ready to dominate in the AHL not just hang in.
Considering Niku's age, yes. Someone else might find this debatable and I'm ok with it, but this is my opinion.

Yes, Vatanen was better as an overall package during his last Liiga season. But I see similar potential in Niku. Offensively he might be ok for NHL during next season, but I believe his defensive side needs 1 or 2 seasons in the AHL to develop.

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05-17-2017, 08:34 AM
  #96
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Niku was a small boy in mens league when the playoffs started so thinking he could actually make the big league next season is ... well it's something
He played well and handled big minutes. Agreed he made some stupid plays especially in game 7 of the semifinals but KalPa's huge home rink and quick and skilled forwards were poison to our defense.

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05-17-2017, 08:50 AM
  #97
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Vatanen was the best player in Liiga for his last two seasons, did whatever he wanted on the ice at times. Iv'e never seen a better skater in Liiga besides Erik Karlsson's lockout stint and I'm actually surprised Vatanen isn't a star in the NHL but "only" a top-3 defender on a western conference contender.
Vatanen has been closer to top4.

But he doesn't have elite straight line speed in the NHL. He skates very well, smooth and so on but forwards can put pressure on him on a straight line.

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05-17-2017, 08:53 AM
  #98
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The contracts of these young talented kids are fixed every year. If you show that you can play in Liiga you'll get a huge raise. Niko Mikkola who is same age as Niku will make 150k next year but he is miles better than Niku thought.

You make more money in Liiga than with 2-way NHL contract.
Ah, the secret to successful interneting: ask, and no one may tell you nothing, but make a BS statement in certain fashion, and they'll rush in to correct you.

Thanks. That absolutely makes sense, because with everyone being pretty much an UFA there's no pressure to sign a multi-year bargain paper, and the teams nevertheless will obviously want to secure the services of a talented player for multiple years.

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05-17-2017, 09:04 AM
  #99
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Vatanen has been closer to top4.

But he doesn't have elite straight line speed in the NHL. He skates very well, smooth and so on but forwards can put pressure on him on a straight line.
I think Vatanen's skating has regressed a bit with age and maybe not being the last guy to leave practice but he's become much more reliable in his own end and that's why plays big minutes with Anaheim. Jets should be extremely happy if Niku becomes nearly as good.

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05-17-2017, 10:59 AM
  #100
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The contracts of these young talented kids are fixed every year. If you show that you can play in Liiga you'll get a huge raise. Niko Mikkola who is same age as Niku will make 150k next year but he is miles better than Niku thought.

You make more money in Liiga than with 2-way NHL contract.



Yeah gotta agree with you there. Niku is not even on the same page as Vatanen was when he left Liiga. On the other hand Vatanen didn't become as good as we tought he would after those monster seasons with Jyp.
Niku gets a $92,500 signing bonus, plus at least $70,000 in the AHL, so the minimum he makes next season is $162,500 USD (€145,900). He earns another ~$4000 USD for every day he's on the Jets NHL roster.

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