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Sami Niku signed ELC

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Old
05-17-2017, 08:03 PM
  #126
Hockeyisl1fe
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
I like Niku too, but comparing a 0.66 Liiga p/gp guy to a 0.36 p/gp guy.
Their numbers aren't very comparable though, since the FEL's scoring has regressed quite a lot since then. I remember this topic being discussed with Laine's goal totals compared to Armia's in their draft seasons. But yeah, I don't see him as good of a prospect than Vatanen was either way.

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05-17-2017, 11:21 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by ijuka View Post
So the Jets decide if he gets to go to Liiga or AHL? So why would they ever let him go to Liiga instead of AHL? I feel really confused right now.

Well, let's hope he makes the team out of training camp. Will help my brain cease producing so much steam, too.
As per CapFriendly, Niku has the "European Assignment" clause in his Entry Level Contract.

In my post #87 there is a quote from CBA section 11.19 that allows this kind of clause and tells how it works.

Essentially, if a player on an NHL contract with such clause is Loaned (=sent down) by the team to AHL or elsewhere, he has the option of deciding to go to an European team instead, for the duration of the loan.

As he has an existing contract with JYP as far as the European end of things are concerned, I gather he would go to JYP then, if 1) he was sent to AHL and 2) if he decided to take that option. Which he will not, unless something goes terribly wrong with the Jets organization. The clause is probably just a guarantee for him that in case he would get totally sidelined even in the A he can return to Europe then.

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05-17-2017, 11:50 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
He will go to the AHL. This is only being brought up since there is a lot of finnish fans on the Jets forum nowadays that would like to see their players stay at home. On rare occasions teams loan signed players back to european teams for development (Esa Lindell in Dallas or Nikolai Goldobin when he was in San Jose for examples) but it doesn't happen very often. Apparently there is in fact a stipulation that teenage players signed out of Europe must be offered back to European leagues first before AHL, but this is not in play here due to Niku's age. I would be shocked if loaning Niku back to Europe is in any kind of play here.
No it really was just one crazy-hat with an itching to show-off who only pointed out a peculiarity (the EA clause) in his ELC, and who gladly will see Niku playing in Manitoba.

The Transfer Agreement thingy regarding U20 players was just idle pondering of possibilities by me that we since have learned most likely don't apply to Niku, but in a hilarious turn of events he seems to have the somewhat similar EA clause in his personal ELC (the difference being that now it's his and not the European team's option).

Though, I would guess the general Transfer Agreement has something about Niku having to honor the pre- and still-existing contract with JYP in case he returned to Europe for the duration of it, because I don't think it's void merely by the action of his signing the ELC to NHL, but only superseded by the NHL contract and not in effect for the time being.

This does not mean he would be obligated to take the option of returning to Europe in the likely case he was sent to AHL, and it's pretty certain that he won't. Finn players are quite aware and accept that you may have to go and "gain speed" from the farm when attempting to NHL. That Laine dude wasn't joking when he said his main goal was to secure a spot in the NHL roster for himself.

The way Niku's contract is built is very much to ensure he won't take a fiscal beating compared to Liiga pay when he is put to AHL. The July 1st payday for the signature bonus is a CBA-mandated thing and creates a bit of moral hazard that Niku could take the money and ditch, but I think it's safe to say the spirit of such setup will be honored by Niku and it's gonna be the AHL for him.



But, just so that we know the legal and contractual ins and outs concerning young Sami. We could also just have cheerleadered his signing and be none the worse for it in the end when everything will have gone right as expected.

For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18


Last edited by Lempo: 05-18-2017 at 03:04 AM.
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Old
05-18-2017, 06:24 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Lempo View Post
No it really was just one crazy-hat with an itching to show-off who only pointed out a peculiarity (the EA clause) in his ELC, and who gladly will see Niku playing in Manitoba.

The Transfer Agreement thingy regarding U20 players was just idle pondering of possibilities by me that we since have learned most likely don't apply to Niku, but in a hilarious turn of events he seems to have the somewhat similar EA clause in his personal ELC (the difference being that now it's his and not the European team's option).

Though, I would guess the general Transfer Agreement has something about Niku having to honor the pre- and still-existing contract with JYP in case he returned to Europe for the duration of it, because I don't think it's void merely by the action of his signing the ELC to NHL, but only superseded by the NHL contract and not in effect for the time being.

This does not mean he would be obligated to take the option of returning to Europe in the likely case he was sent to AHL, and it's pretty certain that he won't. Finn players are quite aware and accept that you may have to go and "gain speed" from the farm when attempting to NHL. That Laine dude wasn't joking when he said his main goal was to secure a spot in the NHL roster for himself.

The way Niku's contract is built is very much to ensure he won't take a fiscal beating compared to Liiga pay when he is put to AHL. The July 1st payday for the signature bonus is a CBA-mandated thing and creates a bit of moral hazard that Niku could take the money and ditch, but I think it's safe to say the spirit of such setup will be honored by Niku and it's gonna be the AHL for him.



But, just so that we know the legal and contractual ins and outs concerning young Sami. We could also just have cheerleadered his signing and be none the worse for it in the end when everything will have gone right as expected.

For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
Your posts have been much appreciated. IMO it is never a bad thing to dig down to the actual rules that govern player movement. At worst it informs future discussions. I think we can all now look forward to seeing what Niku can accomplish in the Jets organization. I'm very high on the kid.

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Old
05-18-2017, 11:45 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Hockeyisl1fe View Post
Their numbers aren't very comparable though, since the FEL's scoring has regressed quite a lot since then. I remember this topic being discussed with Laine's goal totals compared to Armia's in their draft seasons. But yeah, I don't see him as good of a prospect than Vatanen was either way.
It hasn't fallen in half though, which is the point.

Vatanen still is 1st and 2nd in point totals for a Liiga U20 defender in a season. It's such a wide gap which is my point.

Now in terms of modelling, we would do era adjustments, etc to get proper cohorts.

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05-19-2017, 12:45 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
Your posts have been much appreciated. IMO it is never a bad thing to dig down to the actual rules that govern player movement. At worst it informs future discussions. I think we can all now look forward to seeing what Niku can accomplish in the Jets organization. I'm very high on the kid.
Thanks. That's my approach towards it too. There obviously must be a reason why any of the non-default clauses get added onto a contract, but there's probably less legit reason for alarm than gets raised when one is pointed out.

The signature bonuses for example... upon looking it up, most of the recently drafted guys seem to have the max ones negotiated for themselves. But, especially for a guy who's moving to another town, even another country, that upfront money may be badly needed for setting oneself up to live there.

And, in the cases where the ELC slides as it in many cases does, the team hasn't lost anything as it comes off from the contract's last year's total NHL pay (example: Will Nylander: https://www.capfriendly.com/players/william-nylander ). If the ELC doesn't slide, it means the guy was good enough for 10+ games up in the NHL and maybe worth the "extra" money even if a part of the first year was spent in the AHL.

In the big picture it would be kind of petty to treat the non-Slide-eligible guys differently and give them worse terms regarding the signature bonus, especially when they're already hockey pros while the Slide-eligible NA guys are as a rule juniors. Anyway it's a CBA feature that the older guy gets better terms.

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Old
05-19-2017, 12:54 AM
  #132
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Alex Nylander, the 8OA in 2016 Draft also seems to have the European Assignment clause on his ELC, despite having come from OHL to the Draft.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/alexander-nylander

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05-19-2017, 01:00 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Lempo View Post
Alex Nylander, the 8OA in 2016 Draft also seems to have the European Assignment clause on his ELC, despite having come from OHL to the Draft.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/alexander-nylander
But didn't he play in the AHL for pretty much the entire season this year?

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05-19-2017, 01:33 AM
  #134
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But didn't he play in the AHL for pretty much the entire season this year?
Yes, he did. Playing in Europe is merely an Option that he didn't take, as should be expected. The EA clause is there I would guess only for the case that something very weird happened and playing in Europe suddenly started to look like a good career choice.

It's mainly the Russian guys who have the genuine option to be a star in KHL who are more likely to opt out from bussing around for the AHL games. The Canucks recently had any amount of fun with Nikita Tryamkin who has the EA clause and who showed up at the training camp out of shape and wouldn't agree to a stint in the A for conditioning and so spent the early season as healthy scratch while getting into shape:

"The curious case of Nikita Tryamkin"

https://www.thescore.com/news/1137724

And then Nikita eventually ditched for KHL, and the Canheads brought in the Swede Jonathan Dahlen as replacement, somewhat hilariously also with the "European Assignment" clause:

http://thecanuckway.com/2017/04/22/c...gnment-clause/

With Niku I'd guess the time to start being worried is on the season no 3 if it looks like the doors to the N are to be kept shut for him for good. Opting a bit early to play in the Liiga with the Finnish distances and the homecountry surroundings may start look luring at that point.


Last edited by Lempo: 05-19-2017 at 03:53 AM. Reason: found the temporarily misplaced link to the article
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Old
06-12-2017, 04:42 AM
  #135
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I'm more excited to have Sami Niku in the Jets organization than Poolman, Harkins, or anyone else they sign. We need defensive depth, and my gut tells me he will eventually fill a prominent role on our team.

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06-12-2017, 06:29 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post
I'm more excited to have Sami Niku in the Jets organization than Poolman, Harkins, or anyone else they sign. We need defensive depth, and my gut tells me he will eventually fill a prominent role on our team.
He has been my favorite dark horse for a while and I will hope for the best.......Lord knows we are starving for (or could really use) one of Niku, Poolman, or Stanley to eventually be a top 4 asset. The odds aren't great but it does happen on occasion.

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06-12-2017, 07:31 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
He has been my favorite dark horse for a while and I will hope for the best.......Lord knows we are starving for (or could really use) one of Niku, Poolman, or Stanley to eventually be a top 4 asset. The odds aren't great but it does happen on occasion.
speaking of dark horses: What is the projection for Kraskovsky's next season? Does anyone know? Is he gonna attend our prospect camp or anything? He did play two consecutive seasons of 40-50 games in the KHL and is gonna turn 21 this year.

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06-12-2017, 07:36 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
He has been my favorite dark horse for a while and I will hope for the best.......Lord knows we are starving for (or could really use) one of Niku, Poolman, or Stanley to eventually be a top 4 asset. The odds aren't great but it does happen on occasion.
Luke Green being the other that contributes to the odds somewhat.

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06-12-2017, 07:37 AM
  #139
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speaking of dark horses: What is the projection for Kraskovsky's next season? Does anyone know? Is he gonna attend our prospect camp or anything? He did play two consecutive seasons of 40-50 games in the KHL and is gonna turn 21 this year.
It'd be nice to sign him to an ELC and bring him over to play for the Moose. All up to him though.

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06-12-2017, 08:27 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Gil Fisher View Post
Luke Green being the other that contributes to the odds somewhat.
I would Nogier as well. A couple of these guys should work out in the next couple of years. I'd love to see one really step up this year. Improbable, but I didn't expect Morrissey to be ready so fast either.

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06-12-2017, 09:47 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Gil Fisher View Post
It'd be nice to sign him to an ELC and bring him over to play for the Moose. All up to him though.
He's still under contract to Yaroslavl for one more season. There could be a window next summer to sign him. I don't expect him at dev camp

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06-13-2017, 02:42 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
He's still under contract to Yaroslavl for one more season. There could be a window next summer to sign him. I don't expect him at dev camp
thanks for making that clear!

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06-13-2017, 05:59 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Gil Fisher View Post
Luke Green being the other that contributes to the odds somewhat.
Good point I can't believe I forgot him but included Stanley.

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06-13-2017, 06:05 AM
  #144
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It'd be nice to sign him to an ELC and bring him over to play for the Moose. All up to him though.
Interesting I heard Slava Malamud talking about how Russians would rather play in the KHL that "ride buses" in the American League. This was after Telegin bolted for the KHL never to return. Slava has to be taken with a grain of salt but I think he might have a point on this. I remember Nikushken telling Dallas when he was 18 it was KHL or NHL.

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06-13-2017, 10:25 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
Interesting I heard Slava Malamud talking about how Russians would rather play in the KHL that "ride buses" in the American League. This was after Telegin bolted for the KHL never to return. Slava has to be taken with a grain of salt but I think he might have a point on this. I remember Nikushken telling Dallas when he was 18 it was KHL or NHL.
Up there on this very page there's my post with a link to the Nikita Tryamkin article where this is a big point. It indeed seems to be legit thinking among the Russian prospects.

Look out for them "European Assignment" clauses.

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06-16-2017, 02:55 PM
  #146
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I would like to see Niku centering between Laine (RW) and Selanne (LW) once we bring him out of retirement

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06-16-2017, 03:18 PM
  #147
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I would like to see Niku centering between Laine (RW) and Selanne (LW) once we bring him out of retirement
Oh, right, those two latter ones will possibly play in same team in the Liiga Alumni Foundation benefit game in Oulu, Finland in August. Laine is confirmed, they're trying to get Selanne too.

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