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Are the issues in Eichel's game due to laziness? Lack of focus? Needing to mature?

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Old
05-14-2017, 12:42 PM
  #26
Der Jaeger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
This is going to be the great divide... those who see and objectively call it out, and those who deny it, or seek to rationalize it (see Bowie response).

Once we solve the other issues (coaching, blueline) this issue will be front and center
I agree. He might be somewhat like Malkin in that regard.

Which is why having Reinhart and O'Reilly is so important. Those two are your Conn Smythe winners.

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05-14-2017, 12:55 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by BananaSquad View Post
Eichel will be fine. You know who else never showed for these tournys... crosby
Wha?

27 pts in 18 games at the Worlds. Well over a point/game player for Canada in international competition.

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05-14-2017, 01:43 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by sabrebuild View Post
I don't think he is the laziest player in the league. But he doesn't keep himself busy like truly dominant players. And I'm not going off just this tournament. With his speed he could be in on most every play he wants to. But a lot of times he coasts, taking a mental break.

He has improved from his rookie year quite a bit. But you can't look honestly at his game up to this point in his career and not have the main critique in his game be playing at a higher pace without the puck.

With the puck I like the deliberate change of pace plays that he does. Fits his skill set very well. Without the puck he becomes very average, despite having the physical size and skills to be a dominant player off the puck.

It's frustrating because over the last two years you can see when he gets a little pissed or frustrated and he turns it up. And when that happens you see a top 5 player in the world right now. When he is in normal mode, I see lazy young kovalchuk and I think what a waste of opportunity to be the best.

Great young player, but so much more game to tap into.
Probably the best critique of Eichel I've seen to date. A lot better then uuhhh he's lazy.

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05-14-2017, 01:49 PM
  #29
Mr Meeseeks
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I think calling players lazy or coasters pretty ignorant to be honest. I'm sure I look lazy at work to someone who isn't in my head

Maybe he sees the game so well and has such great hockey sense he can seamlessly get into the position he wants to be in. Just because he isn't flying around the ice like deslauriers doesn't make him lazy and deslauriers hard working lol. Maybe deslauriers doesn't know what the **** is going on?

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05-14-2017, 03:48 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Vidual View Post
I think calling players lazy or coasters pretty ignorant to be honest. I'm sure I look lazy at work to someone who isn't in my head

Maybe he sees the game so well and has such great hockey sense he can seamlessly get into the position he wants to be in. Just because he isn't flying around the ice like deslauriers doesn't make him lazy and deslauriers hard working lol. Maybe deslauriers doesn't know what the **** is going on?
Honestly, if he didn't come here with the mindset that HE would lead this team to a gold, he should have stayed home to rest and rehab the ankle.

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05-14-2017, 04:39 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by BowieSabresFan View Post
I can actually agree with a lot of that.

I would suggest though, that with his high hockey iq, and powerful, easy stride, he does not have to expend as much effort to get to the right spot. Sometimes, I think, that us where some of the perceived laziness is.
I think you see those types of critiques from ppl who don't watch him much or are ignorant.

And when looking at his game fairly, he doesn't get to the right spot as nearly as often as his abilities allow him too.

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05-14-2017, 06:22 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by sabrebuild View Post
I think you see those types of critiques from ppl who don't watch him much or are ignorant.

And when looking at his game fairly, he doesn't get to the right spot as nearly as often as his abilities allow him too.
Our new coach has a ton of work to do with Jack. All the talent and potential in the world but clearly needs elite coaching. Jack had no CHL coaching and 2 years of Bylsma.

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05-14-2017, 11:39 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by CacOBG View Post

He's got too much talent to look that bad versus mostly minor league players...
1 NHL player, 1 ex-NHLer and a shutdown guy from the KHL are minor league players?

You don't know what you're talking about.

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05-15-2017, 03:54 AM
  #34
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How did I know that Eichel was going to get bashed by Leafs fans here if he didn't tear it up in a meaningless tourney. HF, never change. This tournament is meaningless and not important whatsoever.

Want to know who truly cares about the WCs? Canadians and players like Ryan Smythe, Duchene and pre NYR Rick Nash. I am not worried at all about Eichel based on his performance here. Eichel was downright dominant for a long stretch of the season this past year. That's what I care about. Not some yearly tourney that goes on during the NHL playoffs where several stars skip out.

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05-15-2017, 06:46 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by La Cosa Nostra View Post
Not some yearly tourney that goes on during the NHL playoffs where several stars skip out.
So the World Champs are exactly like the Stanley Cup in that respect.

The leading WC teams would beat any team from the Stanley Cup final. Look up the Russian roster. Look up Swedish D. Look up the Canadian roster.

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05-15-2017, 08:06 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La Cosa Nostra View Post
Want to know who truly cares about the WCs? Canadians and players like Ryan Smythe, Duchene and pre NYR Rick Nash. I am not worried at all about Eichel based on his performance here. Eichel was downright dominant for a long stretch of the season this past year. That's what I care about. Not some yearly tourney that goes on during the NHL playoffs where several stars skip out.
I have to kind of agree with this. Eichel looked much better and much more consistent this past year, then he did his rookie season. I think he just cares more about the NHL, the Stanley Cup and the Sabres... which is exactly what I'd want out of him as a fan.

Him going 100% and dominating the WC's would be nice for a talking piece on HF... like him not dominating is for Leaf fans and the like... but with all due respect, who gives a **** about the riff-raff on HF.

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05-15-2017, 11:24 AM
  #37
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No excuses please for Eichel. If he is giving it all he has then he is not as good as many others, lesser known and lesser rated by Sabres fans, or he is not giving his all in which case he should have stayed away from the tournament. I do not know which it is.

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05-15-2017, 11:31 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by hizzoner View Post
No excuses please for Eichel. If he is giving it all he has then he is not as good as many others, lesser known and lesser rated by Sabres fans, or he is not giving his all in which case he should have stayed away from the tournament. I do not know which it is.
we've seen two seasons of him, he's an amazing talent, if he hadn't pouted his way through the final games of the season he'd have been a PPG player at 20. he's plenty good - he has some maturing and growing to do as a player and person.

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05-15-2017, 12:28 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by BananaSquad View Post
Eichel will be fine. You know who else never showed for these tournys... crosby
Not that it matters to who Eichel is as a player, but when you refer to Crosby like that, do you know that Crosby has the record for youngest player to be the point leader in the World Championship with 16 points in 9 games.

So....

Edit: oops didn't see zip already covered this idiocy.

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05-15-2017, 12:29 PM
  #40
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I keep seeing people say he holds the puck too long looking for the perfect play, and that may be the case sometimes, but he also does it to slow the game down and let plays develop. There's no sense forcing a pass when the defense is giving you room to hold the puck. Slow it down, let the play develop, his vision/passing is amazing so holding it while guys get open isn't always a bad thing. He shows little urgency late in games when a goal is needed, but I think that's something that will come with time. He's a threat to shoot or pass when he's given room so why would he make unnecessary passes just to force something?

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05-15-2017, 12:41 PM
  #41
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I think it is rare that any 20yo NHLer has everything figured out.

It is even rarer for an immensely offensively talented 20yo to have everything figured out.

But, I fully expect Eichel to develop into a top 10 to 20 player in the NHL over the long haul.

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05-15-2017, 12:45 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Not Sure View Post
I keep seeing people say he holds the puck too long looking for the perfect play, and that may be the case sometimes, but he also does it to slow the game down and let plays develop. There's no sense forcing a pass when the defense is giving you room to hold the puck. Slow it down, let the play develop, his vision/passing is amazing so holding it while guys get open isn't always a bad thing. He shows little urgency late in games when a goal is needed, but I think that's something that will come with time. He's a threat to shoot or pass when he's given room so why would he make unnecessary passes just to force something?
I don't think Eichel hanging onto the puck too much is a bad thing, it's just not something that he can do when he plays with guys like Gaudreau and I think he knows it. I've only seen a couple of games of him in this tournament but even in the WCoH he seemed to take a backseat and let his teammates play more. In the NHL he'd never play off the puck as much as he does with the NT imo.

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05-15-2017, 12:47 PM
  #43
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I'm not the least bit worried about Eichel and his development. For me, it's Too soon in the game to get all jazzed up and concerned over him.

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05-15-2017, 12:51 PM
  #44
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Eichel's game isn't super mature yet but he's getting there. That stretch in the middle of the season where he was going ppg, he was carrying our team on his back and playing a higher intensity game. I agree it would be good to see him dominate this tournament but I'm not overly worried about it. He's still so young, not everyone is going to be as polished as Matthews right out of the gate. A guy like Getzlaf struggled with intensity/consistency early on but figured it out and obviously is an absolute beast now and has been for years.

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05-15-2017, 12:57 PM
  #45
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Eichel when on the big stage doesn't live up to what he does during the season. I feel like he will disapear during Playoff runs like Ovechkin and Stamkos.

What I see with Eichel and Reinhart are. Eichel brings it during the season and gets us to the playoffs, Reinhart than really shines in the playoffs. Reinhart has done nothing but shine in playoffs and international stage in every tournament hes played in. Eichel not so much which really doesn't bother me.

These two players are our ying and yang, as for lazy. No. motivation lacks tho or like I said he just doesnt do well on the big stage.

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05-15-2017, 01:14 PM
  #46
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Cue the 4 point game for Jack against Russia tomorrow

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05-15-2017, 01:20 PM
  #47
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Hey, why don't we trade Eichel+ to St. Louis for P....aul Stastny. Because Stastny is actually the all time record holder in points and ppg for team USA at the WCs. I mean, that's what really matters doesn't it? A yearly tourney that frankly is meh that goes on during the real tournament the Stanley Cup playoffs. It doesn't matter Eichel was literally a ppg player with about ten days left in the season and went through a mini slump at the end, since he isn't dominating the WCs there is obviously an issue.

I hope this is the last WCs Eichel has to ever play. It would mean we are going deep in playoff runs if that's the case. How many Sabre fans from Buffalo would truly be ecstatic if Eichel led the WC in scoring and led the US to Gold? It would elicit more of a that's nice reaction from me, not me crying tears of joy and such an "amazing"'feat.

Eichel still isn't at 100% yet. Several former nhlers said he wouldn't be at 100% until next season, that's one of the reasons I wanted him to skip the tourney. I'd be more concerned if next year he was struggling out of the gate while also looking disinterested. We all, meaning the Sabre fans who watched Jack play know that he could have easily been well over a ppg this year if not for bad puck luck/lack of finish from teammates.

Are there aspects that frustrate me with Jack? Sure, some minor ones. Some times he looks aloof when things aren't going well or when he is non Chalant about line changes. But there were several times this past year when he was a demon on skates. Him forechecking and blowing past Moulson even with Moulson having a gigantic 50-60 foot head start will be something I'll never forget whenever Eichels effort is brought into question. He was 20. He will earn more consistency as he gets older. Every young player has times where they look lackadaisical. Even McDavid did this past post season. No need to worry. I still am not trading Eichel for anyone in the world aside from Connor McDavid.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabre the Win View Post
Eichel when on the big stage doesn't live up to what he does during the season. I feel like he will disapear during Playoff runs like Ovechkin and Stamkos.

What I see with Eichel and Reinhart are. Eichel brings it during the season and gets us to the playoffs, Reinhart than really shines in the playoffs. Reinhart has done nothing but shine in playoffs and international stage in every tournament hes played in. Eichel not so much which really doesn't bother me.

These two players are our ying and yang, as for lazy. No. motivation lacks tho or like I said he just doesnt do well on the big stage.


Reinharts production at the WC last year was far less then Eichels this year. And aside from his Draft year his postseasons with Kootenay were nothing extraordinary. Reinhart will be fine. Eichel will be fine. No one can say Jack or Sam will be bad/good/one better then the other until we actually get into the NHL playoffs. Saying Eichel is bound to disappoint in the playoffs is impossible to predict. And how does Ovy disappear in the playoffs? Because his team can't get out of round 2? It's not all on Ovechkin, he has a .5 gpg in the playoffs and is close to a ppg in the post season. I'm hoping Eichel is more of a Getzlaf/Malkin type in the playoffs which is just as likely as saying he'll be like Ovy/Stamkos.


Last edited by La Cosa Nostra: 05-15-2017 at 01:30 PM.
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05-15-2017, 01:30 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by BiPolarBear View Post
There's laziness in his game, sometimes it seems like an arrogant laziness where he thinks he's so good he doesn't have to put out maximum effort and other times he seems petulant and immature, if things aren't breaking his way he displays his anger by just not trying hard.

I saw a lot less of it in 2017 than in his rookie year but his play in this tournament is a bit disturbing. He doesn't mesh well with linemates, why that is I'm not sure, but what I'm sure of by now is it's not his linemates' fault, the idea that he's so scary brilliant nobody can figure out how to play with him is bs - it's Jack who needs to figure out how to play with them.
wtf

talk about pulling something out of thin air

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05-15-2017, 01:31 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Sabre the Win View Post
Eichel when on the big stage doesn't live up to what he does during the season. I feel like he will disapear during Playoff runs like Ovechkin and Stamkos.

What I see with Eichel and Reinhart are. Eichel brings it during the season and gets us to the playoffs, Reinhart than really shines in the playoffs. Reinhart has done nothing but shine in playoffs and international stage in every tournament hes played in. Eichel not so much which really doesn't bother me.

These two players are our ying and yang, as for lazy. No. motivation lacks tho or like I said he just doesnt do well on the big stage.
Hahaha, OMG what do you guys eat for breakfast??

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05-15-2017, 01:39 PM
  #50
TehDoak
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Maybe Eichel is going out after games and fighting crime vigilante style and he's tired.

Maybe he has been scaling trees to save kittens.

OR

Maybe we shouldn't read too much into a couple games in an international tourney where he's been the best player in a few games and his team top of their pool.

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