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Jets Goaltending General Discussion Vol. 2

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Old
05-17-2017, 07:35 AM
  #51
CorgisPer60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
What's your knock on Bernie? His stats as an aggregate are very serviceable.

He's at a good age and has a weak enough resume that he wouldn't cost a fortune.

Short of snagging 9.18-9.20 type guy out of luck or high payment, I don't see why he'd be considered so different from a grauber or Mason type?
He was given the mantle in Toronto and didn't do so well. He's done well in systems that have good defensive structure and D men (Anaheim, LA). Considering the Jets' defensive system problems, I'm not sure we can expect the results we saw in Anaheim/LA. It would be a low cost risk, and he's at least proven himself a better goaltender than Hutch has. I wouldn't be opposed to the idea.

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Old
05-17-2017, 07:41 AM
  #52
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No offense to anyone, but both of these things sound exactly like the reasoning of how teams talk themselves out of grabbing good value players. It is exactly these scenarios/ideas that tend to create the market inefficiency we should be trying to exploit.

If we want to get likely the best goalie possible at a low price, it's going to take a gamble. I'd rather gamble on the above sort of anslysis being wrong (since historically theirs been very little confirm how effective/real it is) then on a guy who's thought to be good but has poor numbers (like MAF for example)

Now Bernie numbers aren't fantastic so im not gonna double down on him per say, but that's exactly the type of goalie/situation I'd be looking at. Bump that sv% by a couple ticks and were literally talking about the next Devin dubnyk.

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Old
05-17-2017, 08:01 AM
  #53
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I think Vegas will start the season with Miller (UFA) and Grubauer as their keepers and trade the other two they select in the XD. I'm assuming that Vcr doesn't have anything else worth claiming in the XD and that LV meets Miller's spousal requirements suitably.

I wonder if the Jets could be proactive and trade for Grubauer AND Raanta with conditional consideration (and an exposable Hutch if required) and expose both of them to LV. (Only a late round pick going to former team if keeper gets claimed.) This would provide protection for our exposed skaters too. Risk is we're stuck with three keepers and lose a Myers/Dano.

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Old
05-17-2017, 08:19 AM
  #54
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Bernier is a career .915, even his 3 seasons in Toronto his SV% is .915 (they unequivocally tanked 1 of those years), oh and he was a .915 this year too

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Old
05-17-2017, 08:55 AM
  #55
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Delete. Wrong player, my bad.


Last edited by drumzan: 05-17-2017 at 09:13 AM.
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Old
05-17-2017, 09:02 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumzan View Post
Bernier's wife is an actress. Pretty sure it was public last time he was available that he wanted to go out West to be close to LA. So, I doubt he'd come here unless it's a last resort option.
Are you sure your not thinking of Miller?

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Old
05-17-2017, 10:46 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
What's your knock on Bernie? His stats as an aggregate are very serviceable.

He's at a good age and has a weak enough resume that he wouldn't cost a fortune.

Short of snagging 9.18-9.20 type guy out of luck or high payment, I don't see why he'd be considered so different from a grauber or Mason type?
Every time I watch him I come away thinking he is just not that good. He lets in some real stinkers. Watched him a few times with Anaheim and wasn't impressed. Especially when he's faced with an odd man rush. With a team like ours that exposes our goalies a lot I think he'd get eaten alive here.

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Old
05-17-2017, 11:41 AM
  #58
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These Goalies Would Be Great

Both of these teams have 2 good goalies, and they both
will have to expose one of them. I believe they both have
a save percentage of 92% or better. I like them both.

1) Raanta- New York Rangers ( likely will be exposed)

NY will protect Lunquist-- making Raanta "available"


2) Grubauer- Washington Caps ( likely will be exposed)

Caps likely to protect Holtby

also Dell with San Jose ( I believe) - has very good numbers 92%

NOTE- The Jets have to use the expansion draft to their "advantage" and get Las Vegas to aquire one of these above goalies, Las Vegas doesn't want, and offer them some "young prospects"- like Roslovic, and or Petan, and a draft pick, to get this goaltender.

The Jets are going to have to "give something" to get a value player ( goalie) in return, and the Jets are loaded with offensive firepower. The time is now to make a deal to shore up our back end. Chevy should be making friends and getting on the phone with Las Vegas GM, and work something out, as Las Vegas is in a position of power.

Either that, or trade for one of these goalies "right now" and then you'd have to expose Helle and Hutch- ok by me, as Helle does not impress me. The Jets have a great team- won 7 last straight games, just need a goalie and could go to the Stanley Cup.


Last edited by gnp: 05-17-2017 at 03:01 PM.
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Old
05-17-2017, 12:57 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Yeah that's kind of where I'm at. I would like to have him but figure Vegas will elect to keep him.
My hope is that they sign a UFA and keep one of Raanta or Grubauer and trade the other. I see Grubauer lining up for them age wise. Sign MAF and have Grubauer take over from him in a few years time. They could draft Raanta and trade him. There may be a few bidders which would push the price up.

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05-17-2017, 01:56 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnp View Post
Both of these teams have 2 good goalies, and they both
will have to expose one of them. I believe they both have
a save percentage of 92% or better. I like them both.

1) Raanta- New York Rangers ( likely will be exposed)

NY will protect Lunquist-- making Raanta "available"


2) Grubauer- Washington Caps ( likely will be exposed)

Caps likely to protect Holtby

also Dell with San Jose ( I believe) - has very good numbers 92%

NOTE- The Jets have to use the expansion draft to their "advantage" and get Las Vegas to aquire one of these above goalies, Las Vegas doesn't want, and offer them some "young prospects"- like Roslovic, and or Petan, and a draft pick, to get this goaltender.

The Jets are going to have to "give something" to get a value player in return, and the Jets are loaded with offensive firepower. The time is now to make a deal to shore up our back end. Chevy should be making friends and getting on the phone with Las Vegas GM, and work something out, as Las Vegas is in a position of power.

Either that, or trade for one of these goalies "right now" and then you'd have to expose Helle and Hutch- ok by me, as Helle does not impress me. The Jets have a great team- won 7 last straight games, just need a goalie and could go to the Stanley Cup.
The time isn't now. Id say it's about after the xd and half way through the season to evaluate where out players are at

Edit: when you say player you mean goalie lol. My bad

Either the most we should give up is a petan and a petan for a goalie lol

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Old
05-17-2017, 05:37 PM
  #61
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McKenzie speculating on TV that the Penguins may choose to trade Murray rether than Fleury as had been previously speculated. They would get more for Murray (his words not mine)

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Old
05-17-2017, 06:41 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
McKenzie speculating on TV that the Penguins may choose to trade Murray rether than Fleury as had been previously speculated. They would get more for Murray (his words not mine)
Now obtaining Murray would be worth risking Helly in the XD. Wonder what the asking price would be. Just might be worth it.

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Old
05-17-2017, 06:43 PM
  #63
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Now obtaining Murray would be worth risking Helly in the XD. Wonder what the asking price would be. Just might be worth it.
Yup. But McKenzie was really just spitballing, he even stated the most likelt scenario was Fleury moving elsewhere. I would peg the chances of Murray leaving as incredibly thin. Would love to have him though.

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Old
05-18-2017, 11:21 AM
  #64
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Even if the Jets didnt protect Helle there is no chance Vegas would take him anyways... there is absolutely nothing special about him... mediocre talent and mediocre stats.
With forwards and defense we judge players based on their talent skill and potential to determine if they are the future of this team. For some reason some fans have randomly anointed Helle the future goalie of this team with no justification. For all the Helle fans out there can you please explain to us skeptics what exactly you see in him? All I see is a big, slow, unathletic goalie who often loses focus.... dime a dozen in this league.

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Old
05-18-2017, 12:45 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by objectiveposter View Post
Even if the Jets didnt protect Helle there is no chance Vegas would take him anyways... there is absolutely nothing special about him... mediocre talent and mediocre stats.
With forwards and defense we judge players based on their talent skill and potential to determine if they are the future of this team. For some reason some fans have randomly anointed Helle the future goalie of this team with no justification. For all the Helle fans out there can you please explain to us skeptics what exactly you see in him? All I see is a big, slow, unathletic goalie who often loses focus.... dime a dozen in this league.
Maybe a better question is why do you think a guy who's been elite at every level up to this point, but doesn't pass your garbage eye-test, isn't going to be a decent starter at the NHL level?

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Old
05-18-2017, 01:01 PM
  #66
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Raanta AND (almost free?) Säteri with Hellebuyck? What can possbly go wrong, other than neither of them is sure pick for a starter?

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Old
05-19-2017, 03:40 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Daximus View Post
Grubauer is interesting but a likely pick of Vegas so probably kot available. I wouldn't want to touch Bernier with a ten foot pole. Elliot could be the guy to get us into the playoffs but his track record in the playoffs is rough.
I don't understand the dislike for Bernier. 1 season of .908 and otherwise very good. It appears to me to have been influenced by 3 years of whinging by Leafs fans but maybe there is more substance to it. IDK.

Elliott could be the guy to get us into the playoffs, but at 32 he could also be the goalie he was last year with Calgary, .910. He could bounce back to .930 from the year before with St. Louis. Why did Blues perceive they had a problem in goal for his entire time there?

Really, the only thing I have against Elliott is his age. Most here see that as an advantage in the firm expectation that Helle will be 'ready' in 2 years time. I don't think it is about readiness. If Helle isn't good enough to be our SC goalie by next year he probably never will be.

I'm not looking for a stopgap. I want a legit starter. When and IF Helle can take the job from that starter then he can be the starter. I've had enough of half measures and development years.

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Old
05-19-2017, 03:51 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
I don't understand the dislike for Bernier. 1 season of .908 and otherwise very good. It appears to me to have been influenced by 3 years of whinging by Leafs fans but maybe there is more substance to it. IDK.

Elliott could be the guy to get us into the playoffs, but at 32 he could also be the goalie he was last year with Calgary, .910. He could bounce back to .930 from the year before with St. Louis. Why did Blues perceive they had a problem in goal for his entire time there?

Really, the only thing I have against Elliott is his age. Most here see that as an advantage in the firm expectation that Helle will be 'ready' in 2 years time. I don't think it is about readiness. If Helle isn't good enough to be our SC goalie by next year he probably never will be.

I'm not looking for a stopgap. I want a legit starter. When and IF Helle can take the job from that starter then he can be the starter. I've had enough of half measures and development years.
I just don't think he's a starter from what I've seen. He's a solid backup but if we want an actual starter he's not the guy. I watched him with Anaheim a few times this year and he just didn't look good.

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Old
05-19-2017, 03:56 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
Now obtaining Murray would be worth risking Helly in the XD. Wonder what the asking price would be. Just might be worth it.
Agree with this- losing Helly is no big deal-"he's terrible"- to slow with lateral movement, and has a slow glove hand. He's been probably pulled from more games than any other goalie. I can't see how anyone would want him. Hutch is actually physically more talented, but mentally he falls apart as easily as Helly.

If we could get Murray ( doubt it) -then grab him, and don't worry about Helly-he has not proven himself.

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Old
05-20-2017, 12:15 AM
  #70
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When will the Jets realize that Flaherty is ruining the goalies?

He is a horrible goaltending coach. Hellebuyck could have been a star with the Jets, but had to endure Flaherty, just like Hutch and Pavelec. He is horrible. Why can't Chevy fire him? Since it's Friday night and I have no life, I will be the one to spot the Elephant in the room. Flaherty needs to go NOW.

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05-20-2017, 12:18 AM
  #71
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When The Jets Find Out He Used To Be A Dodge Ball Player.

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Old
05-20-2017, 07:36 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halberdier View Post
Raanta AND (almost free?) Säteri with Hellebuyck? What can possbly go wrong, other than neither of them is sure pick for a starter?
Talbot was not sure pick as a starter when Edmonton took a very similar chance on him. Nobody knows if Darling is going to be a starter yet Carolina stepped up. Jonathan Bernier was in a similar situation in LA and proved he was a starter in Toronto. Raanta has a great track record and just needs a net.

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05-20-2017, 07:40 AM
  #73
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If Hellebuyck had a competent goalie coach, he could be a career 0.920% netminder.

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05-20-2017, 07:41 AM
  #74
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If Hellebuyck had a competent goalie coach, he could be a career 0.920% netminder.
That would be a terrible goalie

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Old
05-20-2017, 07:42 AM
  #75
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Talbot was not sure pick as a starter when Edmonton took a very similar chance on him. Nobody knows if Darling is going to be a starter yet Carolina stepped up. Jonathan Bernier was in a similar situation in LA and proved he was a starter in Toronto. Raanta has a great track record and just needs a net.
Agreed. If you are never willing to take risks you'll get nowhere.

Raanta's looking like the next Talbot to me.

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