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Marc Bergevin - Who Needs Skill When You Can Throw the Puck in Your Own Net Edition

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Old
05-19-2017, 07:33 PM
  #776
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Originally Posted by Belial View Post
Where did I mention the Habs in that post?

But sure, let's bash the Habs some more.
You bashed Trana with your silly handclap smilie. The Habs are not doing better, so they should be called on it. Hence my post.

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05-19-2017, 07:35 PM
  #777
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Man, I would love to be proven wrong about Lefevbre. I'd love to see McCarron, Scherbak, and Sergachev burst out as key players on the Habs next season. But right now it looks like there's a bizarre disconnect between his terrible results and the vote of confidence he's reportedly getting. This makes no sense.
Made no sense for Therrien not to be fired last year too, and yet he wasn't. He only got let go because we were midway through another collapse this year and we couldn't pin it on injuries anymore. So his hands were forced.
But nobody talks to him about the AHL so...he can do whatever.

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05-19-2017, 07:36 PM
  #778
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Made no sense for Therrien not to be fired last year too, and yet he wasn't. He only got let go because we were midway through another collapse this year and we couldn't pin it on injuries anymore. So his hands were forced.
But nobody talks to him about the AHL so...he can do whatever.
Next year, he'll be getting an earful about his AHL team. He'd better get it right from the get-go in Laval.

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05-19-2017, 07:42 PM
  #779
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You expect Lefebvre or Therrien to teach anybody how to improve their two way defensive game?..
Playing two way is something you can learn, it's not a natural skill.
That's not what I'm discussing.

The topic was that Galchenyuk was compared to Hossa.

I said it wasn't because of his two-way ability at that age.

I agree, you can teach defense but it doesn't change what I said.

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05-19-2017, 08:00 PM
  #780
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Had a random thought about the Shaw acquisition. I'm guessing it was talked about around these parts at the time, but...

I don't understand why Bergevin traded two 2nds for Andrew Shaw instead of offer sheeting at $3,652,658/year for 5 years.

That would have only cost the Habs their 2nd this year instead of the two 2nds last year which is also better from a time value perspective. It would have been a slightly better contract (1 less year being the big factor), and if Shaw ends up being traded and signed elsewhere well, just go find another middle-six winger. It's not like he's a core player.

Was he just doing his old boos a favour? Chicago's cap situation makes their ability to retaliate with offer sheets in the near future very unlikely. Doesn't seem like a good managing of your own assets there.

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05-19-2017, 08:01 PM
  #781
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Its not the top picks. Every Edmonton and New York Islanders get those. Its how skillfully they've managed secondary assets to build depth.
Not to mention a certifiable plan that actually works...
But what kills me most is MB's inability to properly assess the personnel he manages both on
and off the ice. For example there was a poster a while back claiming Dudley was accredited with being one of the best in the business. Great where do we see the results of his input? Does MB have a muzzle on him?

I don't remember feeling this low about the Habs prospects in many many years.

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05-19-2017, 08:08 PM
  #782
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
That's not what I'm discussing.

The topic was that Galchenyuk was compared to Hossa.

I said it wasn't because of his two-way ability at that age.

I agree, you can teach defense but it doesn't change what I said.
I wasn't arguing with you man, just saying, it something you teach. Simply added a comment.

Sheesh, put your guard down mate

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05-19-2017, 08:21 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by Roke View Post
Had a random thought about the Shaw acquisition. I'm guessing it was talked about around these parts at the time, but...

I don't understand why Bergevin traded two 2nds for Andrew Shaw instead of offer sheeting at $3,652,658/year for 5 years.

That would have only cost the Habs their 2nd this year instead of the two 2nds last year which is also better from a time value perspective. It would have been a slightly better contract (1 less year being the big factor), and if Shaw ends up being traded and signed elsewhere well, just go find another middle-six winger. It's not like he's a core player.

Was he just doing his old boos a favour? Chicago's cap situation makes their ability to retaliate with offer sheets in the near future very unlikely. Doesn't seem like a good managing of your own assets there.
Well Shaw has to accept the contract. He got six years from the habs why woulde he have settled for 5 on an offer sheet?

Just because a team offers a player a contract they are not required to sign it.

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05-19-2017, 08:53 PM
  #784
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Well Shaw has to accept the contract. He got six years from the habs why woulde he have settled for 5 on an offer sheet?

Just because a team offers a player a contract they are not required to sign it.
Because Chi wasn't going to even offer him that much. Point being why did we trade for more than his webersheet value to start with and then give him a big contract as well.

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05-19-2017, 08:57 PM
  #785
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Well Shaw has to accept the contract. He got six years from the habs why woulde he have settled for 5 on an offer sheet?

Just because a team offers a player a contract they are not required to sign it.
Guys like Shaw shouldn't be getting much of a bargain. He's a 3rd liner. You give into the demands of higher skilled players, not bottom 6 depth guys.

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05-19-2017, 08:58 PM
  #786
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Because Chi wasn't going to even offer him that much. Point being why did we trade for more than his webersheet value to start with and then give him a big contract as well.
I think you answered your own question, Shaws contract the one he wanted was 6 years long.

Not sure the compensation on a 6 year deal would of been. And lets not forget other teams might have made offers/wanted to make offers.

Like I said just because the habs put a contract in front of a player doesn't mean they will sign it. Shaw got 6 years but there is no guarantee he would of signed a 1/2/4/5 year contract. Considering he got 6 I think odds he wouldn't of signed a offer sheet of lesser value.

The question isn't should MB have traded for him thats a different story. Question was why didn't he offer sheet him for only 1 draft pick. Probably because that would not have gotten the deal done.

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05-19-2017, 09:53 PM
  #787
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Bergevin wouldn't risk offer sheeting Chicago. He likely plans to be there once he's canned in Montreal and Bowman can't do anything with his aging expensive core.

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05-19-2017, 10:30 PM
  #788
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Sylvain Lefebvre is holding Bergevin hostage

http://www.tvasports.ca/2017/05/19/s...t-il-de-retour
Seriously WTF is Bergevin doing?

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05-19-2017, 11:09 PM
  #789
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Man, I would love to be proven wrong about Lefevbre. I'd love to see McCarron, Scherbak, and Sergachev burst out as key players on the Habs next season. But right now it looks like there's a bizarre disconnect between his terrible results and the vote of confidence he's reportedly getting. This makes no sense.
I don't think McCarron, Scherbak or Sergachev busting out will have much to do with the identity of the coach

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05-20-2017, 12:37 AM
  #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the View Post
Sylvain Lefebvre is holding Bergevin hostage

http://www.tvasports.ca/2017/05/19/s...t-il-de-retour
Seems like a lots of people are not happy with the organization lack of accountability. We are going into Bergevin 6th year as GM of the club and things have not looked good the last 3 years.

Its pretty obvious just by looking at the comments at the bottom of the page .

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05-20-2017, 12:50 AM
  #791
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I don't think McCarron, Scherbak or Sergachev busting out will have much to do with the identity of the coach
Can you tell me what has Lefebvre done for them? Just curious.

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05-20-2017, 12:56 AM
  #792
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Season ticket renewal standard message, including a price hike:



So the goal is not to improve but to be in a "better position to improve".

They'll take all possible steps in order to enhance the team. Enhance by how much? A small incremental "improvement" is an enhancement.

The objective is to be even more competitive across all areas. Yes, but how competitive? Competitive enough to win 3 games in the first round of the playoffs?

And they'll be taking another step toward achieving their ultimate goal. What is that goal? Can't be a Cup, they're afraid to mention it.

One small step for Geoff, one giant leap for your wallet.

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05-20-2017, 01:36 AM
  #793
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Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
Season ticket renewal standard message, including a price hike:



So the goal is not to improve but to be in a "better position to improve".

They'll take all possible steps in order to enhance the team. Enhance by how much? A small incremental "improvement" is an enhancement.

The objective is to be even more competitive across all areas. Yes, but how competitive? Competitive enough to win 3 games in the first round of the playoffs?

And they'll be taking another step toward achieving their ultimate goal. What is that goal? Can't be a Cup, they're afraid to mention it.

One small step for Geoff, one giant leap for your wallet.
Thinly veiled excuses with filaments of low expectations. A serious invitation to spend more money, indeed!

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05-20-2017, 02:18 AM
  #794
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So the goal is not to improve but to be in a "better position to improve".
Transitioning to a position where we can build through the draft.

I don't mind price hikes, but frankly it's embarrassing to do so right now.

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05-20-2017, 04:22 AM
  #795
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Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
So the goal is not to improve but to be in a "better position to improve".

They'll take all possible steps in order to enhance the team. Enhance by how much? A small incremental "improvement" is an enhancement.

The objective is to be even more competitive across all areas. Yes, but how competitive? Competitive enough to win 3 games in the first round of the playoffs?

And they'll be taking another step toward achieving their ultimate goal. What is that goal? Can't be a Cup, they're afraid to mention it.

One small step for Geoff, one giant leap for your wallet.
Boom.

What are seasons tickets going for these days?

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05-20-2017, 05:35 AM
  #796
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Boom.

What are seasons tickets going for these days?
The prices will scare people I am sure...I just can't imagine forking out the $$$ for 41 home games, and some preseason games.....and then more for da playoff!!

I live in NS and go up once a year, to take in two home games, man it's not a cheap weekend by any means...ticket prices will always be about supply/demand and it will never change....

Anyone on here season tix holders? Reds, Whites?

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05-20-2017, 05:56 AM
  #797
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As I said before.....they would love more playoffs games....but what's more important to them is give the illusion that we are winners and will still win. Rebuild will NEVER happen. If it does, it will be by accident and probaby due to another huge Price injury. I suggest to Habs fans to start picking a 2nd team to cheer for. Keep the Habs, I know I will. But I'm cheering for the Montreal Canadiens. This great franchise. Not for the Montreal Molsons/Bergevins. This is not my team. So far. We'll see if it becomes more my team after this summer, I just doubt it very much.

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05-20-2017, 06:22 AM
  #798
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As I said before.....they would love more playoffs games....but what's more important to them is give the illusion that we are winners and will still win. Rebuild will NEVER happen. If it does, it will be by accident and probaby due to another huge Price injury. I suggest to Habs fans to start picking a 2nd team to cheer for. Keep the Habs, I know I will. But I'm cheering for the Montreal Canadiens. This great franchise. Not for the Montreal Molsons/Bergevins. This is not my team. So far. We'll see if it becomes more my team after this summer, I just doubt it very much.
I think Molson really messed up by not hiring a middle man. No question about it. Bergevin needed to report to someone knowledgeable. I don't think he had an issue going through a rebuild, I believe this is what the initial plan was.
Bergevin took over and really said everything right during his opening presser. He wants to build a contender but not a one hit wonder and to do so you need to focus on draft and develop. Spot on. To add, he mentioned how this wasn't going to be done overnight, which means he must have had the okay from Molson when he told him the same thing during the interview. Yes, I assume that he did say that to Molson because I don't believe they had this plan to right away make the POs and that was their sole focus, but lied in the opening presser about it.
Great so far.
He follows this up by not committing to any upcoming free agents. Brings in depth and character guys, let's dead wood go, and simply going with the guys that are there to evaluate his team.
Awesome. PK negotiation was dumb, but hey, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt coming from Chicago and not knowing much about the kid.
Our team bounces back well, it proves to be much better than he probably thought.
Still, doesn't want to commit to it too much as it was only a 40ish game season.
The team got pushed around vs Ottawa so he decides to go for bigger guys. I think that was an inexperienced and shortsighted decision, but hey, it's his 2nd year so I can let it go. He fixes that by going after Vanek in an absolutely great trade at the deadline.
Unfortunately, we suffer some injuries but we had a good team at that point.

This is when it all goes down for him. He just made a promise that he would be patient, wouldn't over commit to free agents, or trade the future. So he's in a bit of a limbo, does very little of significance. Our team actually worsens in depth.
Over the following two years, things don't really improve for us. Our top 6 isn't better. Our depth isn't better. Our prospects, sure, one can argue are better than when he took over, but really there's not much to show for it.

It's been 5 years now, if he opted for a rebuild, it means his plan over the previous five years was a complete failure, and his ego is just way too big to admit this.
How many excuses do we hear coming out of this organization? This from the ''No Excuse'' motto club, who interestingly enough decided to remove that sign. The same guy who says ''It's on me, but I did nothing wrong and would re-do it all''.
Going nuclear now equates failure, and I don't think he's ready to admit that.

It's sad because I think Bergevin cares more about saving face than actually doing the right thing for the team.

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05-20-2017, 07:01 AM
  #799
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And they'll be taking another step toward achieving their ultimate goal. What is that goal? Can't be a Cup, they're afraid to mention it.
This one phrase jumped right out at me as well. Goal I guess is to just make the playoffs since that's the fan's minimum expectations.

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05-20-2017, 07:14 AM
  #800
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I think you answered your own question, Shaws contract the one he wanted was 6 years long.

Not sure the compensation on a 6 year deal would of been. And lets not forget other teams might have made offers/wanted to make offers.

Like I said just because the habs put a contract in front of a player doesn't mean they will sign it. Shaw got 6 years but there is no guarantee he would of signed a 1/2/4/5 year contract. Considering he got 6 I think odds he wouldn't of signed a offer sheet of lesser value.

The question isn't should MB have traded for him thats a different story. Question was why didn't he offer sheet him for only 1 draft pick. Probably because that would not have gotten the deal done.
so what ?? if other teams wants to offer more for Shaw so be it... the guy is a friggin 3rd liner. you just trade for (or sign as a UFA) another 3rd liner...

hell! even better, you don't make both trades and the 3rd liner you already have (Eller) cost a little less (3.5 vs 3.9) and is off the book much sooner.

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