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2016-17 General NHL Fan Talk - Part the Fourth (News n' Scores n' Stuff) ‎

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Old
05-23-2017, 12:24 PM
  #1
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2016-17 General NHL Fan Talk - Part the Fourth (News n' Scores n' Stuff) ‎

previous: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=2211039

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05-23-2017, 04:47 PM
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I think the longer BMac goes without talking, the dicier it gets for Trotz. Or at least, the closer to a 50/50 shot it becomes. I personally think he's both looking how the rest of the playoffs play out as well as evaluating the talent/team on hand. If the Penguins go all the way again, maybe he looks more favorable on the team, if they don't get past Ottawa..?

I mean there's gotta be something with him still not having talked to the Media.

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05-23-2017, 04:55 PM
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I think the longer BMac goes without talking, the dicier it gets for Trotz. Or at least, the closer to a 50/50 shot it becomes. I personally think he's both looking how the rest of the playoffs play out as well as evaluating the talent/team on hand. If the Penguins go all the way again, maybe he looks more favorable on the team, if they don't get past Ottawa..?

I mean there's gotta be something with him still not having talked to the Media.
Maybe they want to poach and assistant from one of the teams that have still been playing.

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05-23-2017, 05:53 PM
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I think the longer BMac goes without talking, the dicier it gets for Trotz. Or at least, the closer to a 50/50 shot it becomes. I personally think he's both looking how the rest of the playoffs play out as well as evaluating the talent/team on hand. If the Penguins go all the way again, maybe he looks more favorable on the team, if they don't get past Ottawa..?

I mean there's gotta be something with him still not having talked to the Media.
We wanted to play this year, like the 15/16 Pens.
Will we copy them again next year? With Hershey guys.

Putting a Boyd/Barber/Vrana on Nicky's wing. Playing with Lewington, Ness and Chorney on defense.

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05-23-2017, 07:35 PM
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Brian23
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We wanted to play this year, like the 15/16 Pens.
Will we copy them again next year? With Hershey guys.

Putting a Boyd/Barber/Vrana on Nicky's wing. Playing with Lewington, Ness and Chorney on defense.
I'd hope they're identifying why the Pens have been successful last year (this year, not so much). The Caps need an identity and Trotz doesn't have one that fits. I'd like to think that's what GMBM is evaluating right now.

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05-24-2017, 06:54 AM
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I'd hope they're identifying why the Pens have been successful last year (this year, not so much). The Caps need an identity and Trotz doesn't have one that fits. I'd like to think that's what GMBM is evaluating right now.
The Pens finished with the second best record in the NHL and are one game away from reaching their second consecutive SCF. They're winning in the playoffs despite at one point missing all of their top four defensemen and a slew of other forward injuries. In what world is that not successful?

The Pens are successful because they're laser focused on who they are and what they're about. All top organizations are like this. The coaches know exactly how they want to play and management finds players that fit their schemes. When one player goes down they plug in another guy and that guy knows his role and how to play. As an organization, from top to bottom, they are a cohesive unit.

Trotz, meanwhile, tries to copy cat other schemes and their team identity changes based on the flavor of the week. The Caps have no vision. They throw a bunch of talented players together and hope for the best. Watching how the Pens play on the ice and hoping to emulate that is completely missing the point.

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05-24-2017, 07:38 AM
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It's not just on Trotz, though I agree he's been out coached in probably 4 of the 6 playoff series he's been in - the Flyers series may be the only one you can say he wasn't out coached.

But it's very hard to strike an identity as a team that plays a cohesive 5-man unit game, when the team is led by Ovie who basically plays like he's an on an island. It used to be that teams could find success with star players that played like that - Brett Hull comes to mind. It's just not possible any more - successful teams are constantly in motion, constantly inter-changing with one another and have players that constantly adjust and adapt their responsibilities on both sides of the ice in real-time throughout the lineup. For whatever reason, Ovie sucks at that stuff - and you can't suck at that and lead an NHL team in 2017

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05-24-2017, 07:47 AM
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I think its safe to assume that after 15 years, Trotz has tried all the tricks in his book. In the end, he just wants grind em out victories.

I still think the monster scoring run this team went on in January and February deserves greater scrutiny. What happened during our spring break. Was it all just the players improvising, and he had to reign them in? Did defenses take that week to adjust, or did he pull the plug?

If that period was symbolic of the best Trotz has to offer, he has to get the team to peak in the playoffs, not January. That is the scoring we lack every playoffs. Where did it come from, and where did it go.

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05-25-2017, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexBrovechkin8 View Post
The Pens are successful because they're laser focused on who they are and what they're about. All top organizations are like this. The coaches know exactly how they want to play and management finds players that fit their schemes. When one player goes down they plug in another guy and that guy knows his role and how to play. As an organization, from top to bottom, they are a cohesive unit.
All of that is a narrative that crumbles with 1 loss.

Seriously imagine if they'd lost a nail-biter to us in Game 7.

Now they're losers, their fans are upset, and they'd focus the blame on injuries. But they'd also be talking about Crosby's concussions and him not being their best player, Fleury playing his way back into "do we keep him?" consideration, the young guys filling in due to injury not being good enough.

All of that would definitely have happened, as it has here. 1 loss is the difference between "we're gutting it out and soldiering on!" and "we suck, blow it up." Some of that will still happen if they lose to Ottawa.

You have to look beyond the bogus narrative. The Pens aren't great because they're a collection of laser-focused, we're-in-this-together players with more resolve. They're great because they won a couple more games than we did. They're better than us because the matchup favors them -- their strengths happen to line up favorably with our weaknesses.

Yes, we need to play better and be more this and that, but the "They're winners and we're losers" narrative is bull****.

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05-25-2017, 03:37 PM
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Getting that one win that matters IS the difference between winners and losers.

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05-25-2017, 04:09 PM
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All of that is a narrative that crumbles with 1 loss.

Seriously imagine if they'd lost a nail-biter to us in Game 7.

Now they're losers, their fans are upset, and they'd focus the blame on injuries. But they'd also be talking about Crosby's concussions and him not being their best player, Fleury playing his way back into "do we keep him?" consideration, the young guys filling in due to injury not being good enough.

All of that would definitely have happened, as it has here. 1 loss is the difference between "we're gutting it out and soldiering on!" and "we suck, blow it up." Some of that will still happen if they lose to Ottawa.

You have to look beyond the bogus narrative. The Pens aren't great because they're a collection of laser-focused, we're-in-this-together players with more resolve. They're great because they won a couple more games than we did. They're better than us because the matchup favors them -- their strengths happen to line up favorably with our weaknesses.

Yes, we need to play better and be more this and that, but the "They're winners and we're losers" narrative is bull****.
No, it doesn't crumble and no, it's not ********. What a weird thing to say. One, because they didn't lose. That's the point. Through all of their injuries they're still playing. Two years in a row they had a chance to end our season and two years in a row they did it. If they did lose it could have easily been blamed on injuries or the wear and tear of last year's Cup run catching up with them. But, they didn't, and instead they plugged in players, played their game, and are in the ECF.

Two, they already have two Cups in the Crosby era. The Caps haven't even gotten out of the second round. Results matter. They have them. We don't. Take off your homer glasses. It's not a bogus narrative. Their GM made some shrewd moves based on their style of play and almost all were a huge success. Getting Kessel. Hornqvist in and Neal out. Cole in and Despres out. Hagelin in and Perron out. All guys vital to their success.

If you want to think it's a ******** narrative and that the Pens are lucky, hey, be my guest. I just hope no one with any decision-making capability in the Caps organization shares your thoughts.

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05-25-2017, 06:54 PM
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You hope the people that make decisions don't feel like me? You'd rather they listen to the hate-spewing fans that are telling them to get rid of everyone?

Okay, good luck with that. Cutting your nose off to spite your face is a great plan.

"No! I'M just saying fire this specific person and trade that guy!"

Yeah, and everyone else has a different list, and the majority have no idea what they're talking about.

The clarity with which some see a certain path forward, exactly who to blame, and exactly how to fix it comes across like they have the secret formula to the Stanley Cup.

It's not just that we definitely have the wrong coach, but THIS is the coach that'd win it for us. It's not just that we have the wrong captain, but it's THIS exact unrealistic trade scenario that would fix it all. It's not just that our GM has no experience, but THIS GM has all the answers.

Arguing so definitively as if you have the foggiest idea what it takes to get this done when the best minds in the sport fail at it most of the time is hubris of the first order.

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05-25-2017, 07:46 PM
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Are you ****ing kidding Pierre: "You gotta make a call there" when you touch my meal ticket. I mean the slurp-osity level there is just absolutely gross

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05-25-2017, 07:58 PM
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Please hockey gods don't be so cruel to us...

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05-25-2017, 08:05 PM
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You hope the people that make decisions don't feel like me? You'd rather they listen to the hate-spewing fans that are telling them to get rid of everyone?

Okay, good luck with that. Cutting your nose off to spite your face is a great plan.

"No! I'M just saying fire this specific person and trade that guy!"

Yeah, and everyone else has a different list, and the majority have no idea what they're talking about.

The clarity with which some see a certain path forward, exactly who to blame, and exactly how to fix it comes across like they have the secret formula to the Stanley Cup.

It's not just that we definitely have the wrong coach, but THIS is the coach that'd win it for us. It's not just that we have the wrong captain, but it's THIS exact unrealistic trade scenario that would fix it all. It's not just that our GM has no experience, but THIS GM has all the answers.

Arguing so definitively as if you have the foggiest idea what it takes to get this done when the best minds in the sport fail at it most of the time is hubris of the first order.
Why are you arguing so definitely that everyone suggesting this change or that change is wrong? What suddenly qualifies you? Who cares what posters suggest here? Does that offend you, the offering of ideas?

Beyond that, the ultimate measuring stick is Championships. You're a champion or you're a loser period. No insult, just fact. The Penguins are a near model franchise. Hard to intelligently argue anything otherwise, call them great or whatever you want to.

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05-25-2017, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Jags View Post
You hope the people that make decisions don't feel like me? You'd rather they listen to the hate-spewing fans that are telling them to get rid of everyone?

Okay, good luck with that. Cutting your nose off to spite your face is a great plan.

"No! I'M just saying fire this specific person and trade that guy!"

Yeah, and everyone else has a different list, and the majority have no idea what they're talking about.

The clarity with which some see a certain path forward, exactly who to blame, and exactly how to fix it comes across like they have the secret formula to the Stanley Cup.

It's not just that we definitely have the wrong coach, but THIS is the coach that'd win it for us. It's not just that we have the wrong captain, but it's THIS exact unrealistic trade scenario that would fix it all. It's not just that our GM has no experience, but THIS GM has all the answers.

Arguing so definitively as if you have the foggiest idea what it takes to get this done when the best minds in the sport fail at it most of the time is hubris of the first order.
Serious question. What exactly are you babbling about? Was there a point to this rant?

You're missing my point, so I'll spell it out for you. The Pens have a vision of how they want to play under Mike Sullivan. He wants to play fast from the backend, break out quickly through the neutral zone, and enter the zone with speed. They play a fast game predicated on quick and deadly counter attacks. They don't like to play defense. They don't want to cycle for the sake of cycling. They want to put as much pressure on opposing teams as possible by not allowing them to play set defense and by constantly getting to the net. Once that vision was establish, they then acquired guys to play that way. Out went guys who didn't fit the mold (Neal, Sutter, Despres, Perron) and in came guys that played the style MS was looking for (Hornqvist, Bonino, Cole, Hagelin).

In my opinion, the Caps do not have a vision. In 2015 the Caps wanted to play a "heavy" game, like the Kings. They said as such. After they lost to the Pens last year, they said they needed to play a "speed" game and get faster, like the Pens. They also said as such in public. So to sum it up, you have a coach who is trying to copy cat other teams rather than trusting in his own systems. That, to me, is not a vision. That, to me, is not a recipe for success. What about that do you disagree with?

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05-25-2017, 08:21 PM
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God damn it

EDIT: Spoke too soon

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05-25-2017, 09:03 PM
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Whatever happens - much respect to the Sens. Boucher makes his players believe, Anderson has been Halaking the Pens since the 7-0 game 5 loss, Karlsson has totally stepped up to the responsibilities and expectations of being a top 10 player in the league, and the whole Sens lineup plays with commitment

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05-25-2017, 09:19 PM
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Pens dive to get a call late in the 3rd. You can almost script this as much as our choke jobs.

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05-25-2017, 09:20 PM
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Lol that was one of the worst dives I've ever seen

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05-25-2017, 09:20 PM
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Right on schedule. The Pens get a PP with 9 minutes to go in a 1-1 tie in a Game 7.

Naturally they score.

Buttman is esctatic.

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05-25-2017, 09:23 PM
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Lol and now the whistle blows when kessel falls down but sens have the puck.....

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05-25-2017, 09:23 PM
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Classic

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Old
05-25-2017, 09:23 PM
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Pens hit their own player with the puck and get an instant whistle late in game 7. Kessel of course fresh off a previous dive, sold it to be safe.

The Sens may need to dive to get a PP.

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Old
05-25-2017, 09:24 PM
  #25
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Meh, that was a penalty by Dion.

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