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Friedman: Avs have asked for, and gotten, permission to talk to Kyle Dubas

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Old
05-23-2017, 10:06 PM
  #51
tigervixxxen
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Thinking about it a bit more, it would be kinda strange to bring in someone new to run the show a month before the draft. It's a Toronto guy so you know it'll be discussed everywhere tomorrow. Very curious to see what, if anything, comes of this.
Not just that but expansion, Duchene trade. The combine starts on Monday. Like a month ago would have been a good time?

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05-23-2017, 10:06 PM
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He is one of the few gms that understands that trading a few spots back in the draft to gain assets is a good idea. He also has been with old man Lou and probably learned a great deal about working with the old boys club.

This would be the best case scenario for the avs if they could get him. My leaf fan friends are already starting the young and inexperienced narrative so you know it's good.

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05-23-2017, 10:08 PM
  #53
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Someone asked the 411 on Dubas on our board, but i think it got buried with some of the freaking out. (I would also argue if you did get Dubas - you'd probably also inherit Keefe as those two seem to be two peas in a pod).

Dubas was Shanahan's first significant hire in the new regime.. People were excited because of the things he did in the Soo, and because the Leafs were one of the most backwards thinking organizations (ie: not looking at analytics at all), people thought this was Shanahan's way of stepping into the analytics foreground.

Dubas spear-headed the Leafs super analytics compound (basically shutting down a lot of the well-known websites, because he poached all their guys). He also hired Keefe to work for the Marlies, and while I don't know what the GM of the AHL does (some will argue not v. much, some will argue build the minors outside of organizational drafted picks) had an amazing season two years ago (but had a lot of the super rookies), and then had a challenging first half (the Marlies were dead last) but then they made the playoffs, culminating in a 3rd round exit and a 2nd round exit (both game seven losses i think).

Dubas was also our acting GM when Nonis got fired (along with Hunter), and was responsible for the deals made during the 2015 draft., and the UFA signings of that year as well. (though seen as committee based as Babcock did a lot of phone calls too). he did NOT run point on the Kessel trade - that was Shanahan. Some believe that that the Babcock vs. Hunter debate (Marner vs. Defenseman/Hanifin) resulted in Shanahan getting Lou in the first place.

people will feel attached to him because a lot of people thought he'd be instantly named GM when lou stepped down (actually before Lou got here), and Lou said if Dubas wasn't GM here when he goes that's his fault (this was during his introduction speech). However, with Hunter being named something (also Ass. GM?) on top of his head of player development, and this was actually in the papers, how "far" Dubas can go here because Lou said he felt "rejuvenated" and Babcock isn't going anywhere (meaning Keefe can't advance) - this doesn't surprise me this is coming at all.

This also didn't mean Dubas was also the "heir apparent" because Shanahan always seemed like the kind of person who would search EVERYWHERE before deciding. (not just handing it over to Dubas). If he were to be your new GM, you'd probably be seeing a lot of interesting moves - as well as some traditional ones as well, I think.

to be dead honest with you - I don't know if this would be a good thing/bad thing" for you guys. most Leafs fans are freaking out (but they freaked out when Eakins got hired from Edmonton, and some freaked out when Benning/Desjardin got hired in Vancouver). I also cotton to the theory that everyone deserves a chance. (and there's no reason to believe that he can't do a good/great job for you guys) - and I think it will open up some trade lines between Toronto/Colorado which is always good imo.

but you do run the risk of having someone who is an NHL executive virgin for the most part. one thing I didn't like what he did was that he got cute during the 2015 draft and tried to gather many picks as he can (YAY) but at the cost of NOT Drafting Jacob Larsson at 24 (and Anaheim sniped him one spot before we did when Dubas traded down). and that one hurts especially as a lot of people think this kid is gonna be a beast. (but that's just like one thing) - and then Lou took over so who knows. so that's something to keep in mind as well.

i always did like Colorado so i hope whatever happens, y'all can get better real quick.

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05-23-2017, 10:10 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by tigervixxxen View Post
Not just that but expansion, Duchene trade. The combine starts on Monday. Like a month ago would have been a good time?
It'll be fine I think. I assume Sakic is hands-off with drafting (at least I hope he is judging by how bad he is at evaluating talent) so I'm sure Hepple and co have their own lists.

The Duchene trade needs to happen asap but if it he's hired by next week then that still gives him enough time to negotiate, plus Duchene can be traded any time in the summer and same with Landeskog or whomever. Sakic does things at a glacial pace anyways if he does them

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05-23-2017, 10:13 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
From Puck Daddy:



https://sports.yahoo.com/news/kyle-d...-sh&soc_trk=tw

I hadn't heard that before but if true, that'd be a good explantation why he might be looking to leave now.
FWIW, Hunter was promoted to AGM to make it less likely he'd leave.

When he and Dubas were co-gm's, Hunter continued his usual duties running the drafting/development/scouting departments, and itbwas Dubas who handled the GM day-to-day stuff.

It's likely when Lou Lamoriello is ready to take a step back, it'd be a similar set up.

We also allowed ARI to talk to Dubas, and they apparently offered him the job, but he wanted to stay in Toronto.

All in all, I don't know what is going on, but Dubas is a fantastic front office guy, was a fantastic OHL GM, so will that lead to NHL GM success? I hope so.

This likely brings zero actual insight, but it's all I got

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05-23-2017, 10:13 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Daisy Jane View Post
Someone asked the 411 on Dubas on our board, but i think it got buried with some of the freaking out. (I would also argue if you did get Dubas - you'd probably also inherit Keefe as those two seem to be two peas in a pod).

Dubas was Shanahan's first significant hire in the new regime.. People were excited because of the things he did in the Soo, and because the Leafs were one of the most backwards thinking organizations (ie: not looking at analytics at all), people thought this was Shanahan's way of stepping into the analytics foreground.

Dubas spear-headed the Leafs super analytics compound (basically shutting down a lot of the well-known websites, because he poached all their guys). He also hired Keefe to work for the Marlies, and while I don't know what the GM of the AHL does (some will argue not v. much, some will argue build the minors outside of organizational drafted picks) had an amazing season two years ago (but had a lot of the super rookies), and then had a challenging first half (the Marlies were dead last) but then they made the playoffs, culminating in a 3rd round exit and a 2nd round exit (both game seven losses i think).

Dubas was also our acting GM when Nonis got fired (along with Hunter), and was responsible for the deals made during the 2015 draft., and the UFA signings of that year as well. (though seen as committee based as Babcock did a lot of phone calls too). he did NOT run point on the Kessel trade - that was Shanahan. Some believe that that the Babcock vs. Hunter debate (Marner vs. Defenseman/Hanifin) resulted in Shanahan getting Lou in the first place.

people will feel attached to him because a lot of people thought he'd be instantly named GM when lou stepped down (actually before Lou got here), and Lou said if Dubas wasn't GM here when he goes that's his fault (this was during his introduction speech). However, with Hunter being named something (also Ass. GM?) on top of his head of player development, and this was actually in the papers, how "far" Dubas can go here because Lou said he felt "rejuvenated" and Babcock isn't going anywhere (meaning Keefe can't advance) - this doesn't surprise me this is coming at all.

This also didn't mean Dubas was also the "heir apparent" because Shanahan always seemed like the kind of person who would search EVERYWHERE before deciding. (not just handing it over to Dubas). If he were to be your new GM, you'd probably be seeing a lot of interesting moves - as well as some traditional ones as well, I think.

to be dead honest with you - I don't know if this would be a good thing/bad thing" for you guys. most Leafs fans are freaking out (but they freaked out when Eakins got hired from Edmonton, and some freaked out when Benning/Desjardin got hired in Vancouver). I also cotton to the theory that everyone deserves a chance. (and there's no reason to believe that he can't do a good/great job for you guys) - and I think it will open up some trade lines between Toronto/Colorado which is always good imo.

but you do run the risk of having someone who is an NHL executive virgin for the most part. one thing I didn't like what he did was that he got cute during the 2015 draft and tried to gather many picks as he can (YAY) but at the cost of NOT Drafting Jacob Larsson at 24 (and Anaheim sniped him one spot before we did when Dubas traded down). and that one hurts especially as a lot of people think this kid is gonna be a beast. (but that's just like one thing) - and then Lou took over so who knows. so that's something to keep in mind as well.

i always did like Colorado so i hope whatever happens, y'all can get better real quick.
It's a long-term win. The Avs are known as an old boys club, and hiring Dubas is a sign showing that the philosophy has changed. We already had the lowest of the lows this season, so even if Dubas turns out to be too inexperienced for the job, in the long term it's still the right move.

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Old
05-23-2017, 10:13 PM
  #57
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Realize Dubas is likely a major fan of Matt Duchene. Unless Duchene straight up tells him he's ready to move on I have a feeling he will try to find a way to fix this team by keeping him around.
That would be majorly disappointing.

Duchene's already lost a step, the Avs need to sell him while he still has some cache. Of course, if some fans are thinking this could be Dubas stepping into the GM role, with Sakic moving in to a President type role, he might still say that Duchene has to go (while giving Dubas the rest of the roster).

Either way, I don't think it's wise to keep him.

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05-23-2017, 10:15 PM
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I'm more intrigued by Tampa Asst GM Julien Brisebois.

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05-23-2017, 10:18 PM
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Thanks for the background DJ, it's quite a lot to wrap our brains around because this org is very insular and moves at a glacial pace. Change is needed and it would be good to get a bright young mind that's had success this century but just going from where we are here and the transformation to get it up to modern NHL standards is where I feel growing pains would be felt. What type of GM do you think Dubas would be, like what would you expect some typical moves to be or if you have any idea what he'd specifically do with the Avs? I can't imagine he'd see our development system as satisfactory and that would be a welcome change. But how he'd view the existing roster and how to build it, I'd be very curious. I'd imagine he'd like to make a lot of moves but we don't have many assets, it's going to be tough getting traction from the ground floor.

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05-23-2017, 10:23 PM
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So much news today, it's refreshing.

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05-23-2017, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by tigervixxxen View Post
Thanks for the background DJ, it's quite a lot to wrap our brains around because this org is very insular and moves at a glacial pace. Change is needed and it would be good to get a bright young mind that's had success this century but just going from where we are here and the transformation to get it up to modern NHL standards is where I feel growing pains would be felt. What type of GM do you think Dubas would be, like what would you expect some typical moves to be or if you have any idea what he'd specifically do with the Avs? I can't imagine he'd see our development system as satisfactory and that would be a welcome change. But how he'd view the existing roster and how to build it, I'd be very curious. I'd imagine he'd like to make a lot of moves but we don't have many assets, it's going to be tough getting traction from the ground floor.

I think you'd see guys like Soderberg and Colborne moved out quickly. They're not good players from an advanced stats position and they don't pass the eye test either.


He was the one responsible for the Leafs acquiring so many draft picks over the last few years so I think you'd likely see more of that here right away.


He'd also be someone looking to get creative at the draft as well. Try and pull a move where we take on artificial salary like Datsyuk and Bollando last year in exchange for moving up in the draft or getting a prospect he really likes.


Those are the type of moves these younger guys are making. Looking at a cap space as its own form of value but also looking at players, prospects and draft picks as forms of currency as well with the goal of being to build our currency and add more to it either by adding more prospects, trading cap space for currency, or making trades where we come out better then before, etc.

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05-23-2017, 10:27 PM
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Looks like the talk already happened. Maybe he said I'll take it if you make some majors changes. Hence the moves today:



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05-23-2017, 10:30 PM
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Doesn't say that, he's just speculating that he's not sure if it's still ongoing or if it was past conversations.

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05-23-2017, 10:32 PM
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Doesn't say that, he's just speculating that he's not sure if it's still ongoing or if it was past conversations.
If the talks happened already, they could be close to finalizing a deal...

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05-23-2017, 10:32 PM
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Dater tweeted Avs have no comment. So the cone of silence is probably upset about this getting out, especially if it happened and dubas has already turned it down.

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05-23-2017, 10:33 PM
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If the talks happened already, they could be close to finalizing a deal...
That'd be fantastic. Would make my year, Avs wise.

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05-23-2017, 10:44 PM
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I lol'ed more than I should have.
You and me both, tps had cracking up with that line

If it happens, hopefully he can change the organization's negligence of asset wealth, and if not hopefully he can at least bring in better scouting and development people so that we can hit on more of the few assets that we do decide to give a s*** about.

I liked the Macfarlane addition because it brought a different voice to the room, and I'd like a Dubas addition for similar reasons.


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05-23-2017, 10:46 PM
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Thanks for the background DJ, it's quite a lot to wrap our brains around because this org is very insular and moves at a glacial pace. Change is needed and it would be good to get a bright young mind that's had success this century but just going from where we are here and the transformation to get it up to modern NHL standards is where I feel growing pains would be felt. What type of GM do you think Dubas would be, like what would you expect some typical moves to be or if you have any idea what he'd specifically do with the Avs? I can't imagine he'd see our development system as satisfactory and that would be a welcome change. But how he'd view the existing roster and how to build it, I'd be very curious. I'd imagine he'd like to make a lot of moves but we don't have many assets, it's going to be tough getting traction from the ground floor.

It's hard to say. because everything he's done was as an AGM (so like what actually was Nonis vs. What did Dubas actually influence) - most leafs fans (me included) think that Shanahan put the lockdown on Nonis doing stupid things so maybe Dubas influenced a lot of moves (ie: Franson for Leipsic and the 1st round pick, which turned out to be more 2nds with that first).

I think what he'd do is try to quickly build (or rebuild) your analytics department. Now I don't know if Avs have a lot of money to fling around (to be fair compared to the MLSE bank, not a lot of teams do). so maybe you don't get the tech/sponsorship deals but you can get the brain trust. that will help.


He'll probably ascertain what you need (ie: a rebuild and try to get the best deals for Duchene, Landy etc, and do the whole burn it, and rebuild thing) OR he'll try to move out your yuckiest contracts (how?) and try to do your own version of Robidas Island. (though he'll not have Pridham who is our cap-guy and he helped build the CBA. but i think working with him for 2 years and Lou too he COULD know some wizardry to help it out).

He'll make some 'analytical" based moves. Again. Marincin and Morin were seen as pure analytical gets.I couldn't even tell you if Morin is even in the organization now (how quickly the Leafs depth has gotten). and most people hate Marincin. BUT Babcock seems to believe there is something there, and there are some stats to back it up so if he gets you a good coach (who could easily be Keefe - so y'all may want to decide if you like Keefe's past. this was an issue when he first got hired but most Leafs fans got over it). you might have some projects like so.

he'll really work hard on the development side of things which is ALWAYS a good thing. but again because he has like ZERO things to do (as far as we know) with the Leafs. (because again from what we "know" - Shanahan (not dubas) Ran point on the Kessel deal. however, Dubas was the one who stressed to Shanahan after Murarry, and Maatta were off the table to go hard after Kapanen - and Kapanen to most Leafs fans is right up there with the Big 3. so you can take that to work with). OH! He also brought in Hyman. He worked that deal (I almost forgot). and while Leafs fans are hard on Hyman (no pun intended there), he's a really good get for us, more so when he moves off Matthews line. So imo. he's about .500 on his projects. a big YAY for Kapanen and Hyman (on my end) and a big. "mehhh" on Marincin and a flop on Morin. which is pretty good for 4 deals (that i can think of).


like I said. for me. i run on the whole. the worst case scenario you're still bad. but you got some inroads into analytics, and some good projects. and maybe he can run some mumbo-jumbo and get you a lot of picks and stuff. that's ALWAYS good. the best case scenario is that he's awesome and gets you guys humming again. because he was only acting GM for 4 months there's only very little we can actually say he did. (which again imo is about .500 or so). but he did accomplish a lot AGm wise but i think you could equally get that with say a BriseBois or Botterill (you know if Botterill was still available). as I think most AGMs nowadays are very stats savvy.

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05-23-2017, 10:48 PM
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For the love of god can we please just bring in experienced GM's and coaches and quit screwing around!!!! I am so sick of these guys with little to no NHL experience learning on the job, stumbling, and then getting replaced by someone else with no experience learning on the job and stumbling.

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05-23-2017, 10:52 PM
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Doesn't this all seem to be coming a little late? A new GM probably wants to surround himself with his own guys. Harder to do that when it's almost June.

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05-23-2017, 10:56 PM
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Thanks for the explanation, DJ. We'll see how it all shakes out.

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05-23-2017, 10:59 PM
  #72
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Doesn't this all seem to be coming a little late? A new GM probably wants to surround himself with his own guys. Harder to do that when it's almost June.
Friedman making it sound more past tense makes sense. I guess question is are the Avs only going to do this if they get the guy they want?

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05-23-2017, 11:01 PM
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Thanks for the explanation, DJ. We'll see how it all shakes out.
you are welcome

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05-23-2017, 11:19 PM
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I'm excited because even though I don't think analytics mean that much, I love adding players who play the style that provide postive analytics numbers. Then again, I was excited for Bednar so who knows. Either way, change is coming which is awesome even though some on this board will have you believe the opposite.


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05-23-2017, 11:39 PM
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Avs are proud to announce the new/old GM of the Avalanche.... Pierre Lacroix

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