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Signing Jacob Trouba

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Old
05-24-2017, 03:20 PM
  #26
Huffer
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Letang: signed in 2014
Burns: market level deal for one of the highest producing defensemen in the league
Karlsson: signed in 2012

Upwards price pressure - you can't compare those older contracts to what would be handed out today.

So no, it's not nuts - it's standard fare if you believe him to be a legit #1, which I do.
Agreed. It's fascinating that with sites like Cap Geek that show when contracts were signed, how many UFA years were bought, what the league salary cap was at the time, etc, that people are still clueless about how player valuations are derived.

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05-24-2017, 03:27 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
You can go as high as you want / can afford. I'm not sure what Ovi has to do with Trouba's contract.



That's not how salaries / contracts work in the NHL. You can argue against that, but it's simply a fact that you have to pay to play.

I'd be ecstatic if we can get him for anything under $8M a year for 8 years.
Pretty sure they our a limit on what the limit of the salary cap is
Could be world, but pretty sure you can't be asking for 20 million a year

And how is Ovechkin's contract not relevant to Trouba?
Ovechkin who is the greatest scorer of this era is at a limit of 9.5
Are you telling me if ovechkin was s young and signing a new contract he makes more?

Trouba ain't an 8 million defensman. I don't know who's telling you this, but he's not. I've been looking st other contracts and you're argument is they were signed 3 years ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Agreed. It's fascinating that with sites like Cap Geek that show when contracts were signed, how many UFA years were bought, what the league salary cap was at the time, etc, that people are still clueless about how player valuations are derived.
Trouba isn't a UFA. Buff is and he's making 7.6
Trouba hasn't put numbers up like buff has yet

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05-24-2017, 03:27 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Agreed. It's fascinating that with sites like Cap Geek that show when contracts were signed, how many UFA years were bought, what the league salary cap was at the time, etc, that people are still clueless about how player valuations are derived.
Yup. A similar % of the cap today would put Karlson and Doughty pretty close to 9 million per year.

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05-24-2017, 03:28 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Yup. A similar % of the cap today would put Karlson and Doughty pretty close to 9 million per year.
Yeah Trouba is nowhere near those guys right now

Like I said you're only going to 8 million because he's threatening to leave
Other wise wed be talking 7 million right now at most
"Pay him what he wants"

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05-24-2017, 03:40 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Peggy View Post
Yeah Trouba is nowhere near those guys right now

Like I said you're only going to 8 million because he's threatening to leave
Other wise wed be talking 7 million right now at most
"Pay him what he wants"
Why would you say hes not comparible. He performed better than Doughty this past season and was comparible to Karlson in terms of WAR. He obviously doesn't have as established as a track record but his performance this year was elite.

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Old
05-24-2017, 03:53 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Rambokala View Post
I'm sorry but that is actually ****ing insane. If that's what it would take to keep him i say trade him away.

You people actually believe that he should be making Burns/Karlsson/Letang/Hedman money....are you nuts?
If he has another year like this yes(7-7.5M).

He'll be entering his prime when the next contract starts, you are going to buy lot of UFA years, and Karlsson will be making 10.x soon, Burns starts making 8M at 32y.

2nd pairing UFA guys are already in the 6M range.

I'd rather see them overpay Trouba than trade him. Like I've said before (too) many times replacing a guy like Trouba is so damm difficult.

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05-24-2017, 04:04 PM
  #32
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Excluding ekblab who was overpaid all exceptional dmen like jones and lindholm are making around 5.4 mill for year 4-9 of their careers. Jones 5.4 lindholm 5.2 and hamilton 5.7.Trouba shouldn't get a dime more then jones for year 6-9. Doesn't matter he took less for a bridge, that's his fault cause of his play. Regardless of what they pay him if he wont sign by aug 1 they should trade him. If chevy cant find the courage to trade him because he wont re-sign hope trouba loves the left side for the next couple of years.

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05-24-2017, 04:09 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by ffh View Post
Excluding ekblab who was overpaid all exceptional dmen like jones and lindholm are making around 5.4 mill for year 4-9 of their careers. Jones 5.4 lindholm 5.2 and hamilton 5.7.Trouba shouldn't get a dime more then jones for year 6-9. Doesn't matter he took less for a bridge, that's his fault cause of his play. Regardless of what they pay him if he wont sign by aug 1 they should trade him. If chevy cant find the courage to trade him because he wont re-sign hope trouba loves the left side for the next couple of years.
The problem again is that Trouba will be few years older and closer to UFA than those guys, were you have to pay more.

Also none of those guys were #1D's at the time they were signed. Trouba very well could be 24y #1D, and signing someone like that is going to get expensive.
The good thing for Jets if they could sign Trouba at 24y to 8y term is that they'd buy all his prime years with that contract.

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Old
05-24-2017, 04:26 PM
  #34
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Players often sign similar deals to whomever is being signed at the same time. Are there any comparable defensemen who are expected to sign this summer (or next summer)? for that matter, who in the NHL would be considered a rough equivalent to Trouba?

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05-24-2017, 04:49 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Peggy View Post
Yeah, but I honestly could care less
What other teams have signed who for what
Monkey see monkey do?

If buff is/was putting up better numbers than Trouba at 7.6 and scheifele is putting up better numbers at 6
It's crazy talk and you're being pushed around by peer pressure
You're not bothering to do the math. His 2 year bridge needs to be averaged in with his nest contract. That pushes the AAV of the next one up but this is not a choice. Try to pay less and he is gone to somewhere that will pay. That's all there is to it.

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05-24-2017, 04:49 PM
  #36
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Just for comparison, Chevy said he was willing to offer 6 x $5.5M ($33M) last fall. Trouba took 2 x $3M. To just break even with the $33M offer, he'd need a 4 x $6.75M deal.

I think he'll go to arbitration next summer and say he gets $6M. Jets take 2 years of that and he's gone to UFA in 2020. He can then sign where he wants for the moon.

And for some more perspective, an $8M/AAV deal that begins in 2018-19, assuming the cap is $79M, is equivalent in cap percentage to a $6M/AAV deal signed in 2012-13. And it just gets cheaper relative to the cap every year.

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05-24-2017, 04:58 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by DRW204 View Post
I don't how he makes 2 mill more than guys like lindholm, Jones and reilly. I guess since the jets would be eating up some Ufa years?
Its easy. Scheifele, 8x6.125 = 49 mil in 8 years.
Trouba, 2x3 = 6 mil + 6x7.166666 mil = 49 mil in 8 years.
If Trouba signs for 8 years instead of 6 the last 2 years have to be at approximately what he would sign for 7 years from now. So about 10 mil per. Add that to the 43 mil of the 6 year contract = 63 mil over 8 years = 7.875 AAV. If that 8th year is at 11 instead of 10 then it is 64 mil over 8 years = 8 mil per year. All right in line with what Scheifele signed for and right in line with what #1D get.

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05-24-2017, 05:09 PM
  #38
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If he hits UFA in 2020 as a 26 year old, he will have a huge payday. Cap at $83M so $10M x 7 or 8 years. And he's UFA again at 33 or 34. And the cap then is $100M+. This is using 3% cap growth.

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05-24-2017, 05:14 PM
  #39
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I think the chances we trade him are WAY higher then getting him to sign an extension.....

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05-24-2017, 05:26 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
Its easy. Scheifele, 8x6.125 = 49 mil in 8 years.
Trouba, 2x3 = 6 mil + 6x7.166666 mil = 49 mil in 8 years.
If Trouba signs for 8 years instead of 6 the last 2 years have to be at approximately what he would sign for 7 years from now. So about 10 mil per. Add that to the 43 mil of the 6 year contract = 63 mil over 8 years = 7.875 AAV. If that 8th year is at 11 instead of 10 then it is 64 mil over 8 years = 8 mil per year. All right in line with what Scheifele signed for and right in line with what #1D get.
i understand the math lol, it was more a hypothetical as in i dont see him being 2 mill $ better than lindholm, jones and reilly. obviously buying the ufa years make the AAV increase

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05-24-2017, 05:27 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
You're not bothering to do the math. His 2 year bridge needs to be averaged in with his nest contract. That pushes the AAV of the next one up but this is not a choice. Try to pay less and he is gone to somewhere that will pay. That's all there is to it.
You can try and pay less
Just be reasonable about it

Sounds like were dealing with a player who doesn't want to be reasonable
Sounds like a real team player

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05-24-2017, 05:38 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by BB88 View Post
If he has another year like this yes(7-7.5M).

He'll be entering his prime when the next contract starts, you are going to buy lot of UFA years, and Karlsson will be making 10.x soon, Burns starts making 8M at 32y.

2nd pairing UFA guys are already in the 6M range.

I'd rather see them overpay Trouba than trade him. Like I've said before (too) many times replacing a guy like Trouba is so damm difficult.

Who cares about ufa years

The issue is salary cap space when signing Laine and ehlers while trying to maintain veteran depth(keeping someone like Little and buff or wheeler)

If ufa is what we're adjusting for I'd rather have the salary cap space and have him for 6 years than 8
We're not gonna be a cheap team in a couple years

Can we get an extension for ehlers right now? And Laine after next year?

If Trouba is getting 8. Ehlers is getting 7 and Laine is getting 9
None of these players need to be that expensive

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05-24-2017, 05:56 PM
  #43
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RFA vs UFA years mean everything in negotiations. It's just the way the system works

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Old
05-24-2017, 06:00 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Peggy View Post
Who cares about ufa years

The issue is salary cap space when signing Laine and ehlers while trying to maintain veteran depth(keeping someone like Little and buff or wheeler)

If ufa is what we're adjusting for I'd rather have the salary cap space and have him for 6 years than 8
We're not gonna be a cheap team in a couple years

Can we get an extension for ehlers right now? And Laine after next year?

If Trouba is getting 8. Ehlers is getting 7 and Laine is getting 9

None of these players need to be that expensive
UFA years are important and I think having Trouba signed from 24-32 would be awesome. Gives the Jets a long contending window(potentially).

I don't think having Scheifele, Laine, Ehlers, Morrissey, Trouba core signed longterm would cause a cap hell. Jets have a great u25y and they can push cheap contracts to the roster from the system. Chevy has done a great job with the cap so far.

Another thing is Stuart's 2.6M will be soon gone, Enstrom has 1 year left at 5.75M, Matthias 1 year left with 2.1M, Myers 2 years with 5.5M cap hit. Perreault(4.1M) could be moved if must.

I would also try to sign Helle for 3-5 year contract with a low cap hit right now. Instead of giving him a 1-2 year contract.

I wouldn't mess up with the teams most valuable players, Trouba/Laine/Ehlers.


Last edited by BB88: 05-24-2017 at 06:06 PM.
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Old
05-24-2017, 06:02 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Peggy View Post
Who cares about ufa years
Uhh, the player? Those are presumably the years when they can START earning the most money, if they are signing lower priced, tonger term contracts during their RFA years because they have less leverage, they are losing big time on their lifetime earnings. When this adds up to millions of dollars, you bet your ass they care.

Quote:
The issue is salary cap space when signing Laine and ehlers while trying to maintain veteran depth(keeping someone like Little and buff or wheeler)
Time seems to take care of this. In 3-5 years, Wheeler will be done, Schiefele will be the grizzled vet, and Laine will be considered a vet already too. We'll have new shiny pieces that we'll be afraid of missing their prime, just like now, they will just have different names.

Quote:
If ufa is what we're adjusting for I'd rather have the salary cap space and have him for 6 years than 8
We're not gonna be a cheap team in a couple years
Yeah. That's the cost of contending. That's why I'm glad we're not spending like morons now. When we have the pieces that earn the paycheques we're talking about, we'll be a perennial playoff team. That's okay!

Quote:
Can we get an extension for ehlers right now? And Laine after next year?

If Trouba is getting 8. Ehlers is getting 7 and Laine is getting 9
None of these players need to be that expensive
The only way you're getting any player coming off an ELC to sign a long term contract is by paying big for them. Especially these two players, and especially if they eat into UFA years.

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05-24-2017, 06:16 PM
  #46
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I'm ready for Trouba to be traded. In fact I expect it just not until he signs long term. Or at least goes through arbitration twice.

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05-24-2017, 06:49 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Bristo View Post
Uhh, the player? Those are presumably the years when they can START earning the most money, if they are signing lower priced, tonger term contracts during their RFA years because they have less leverage, they are losing big time on their lifetime earnings. When this adds up to millions of dollars, you bet your ass they care.



Time seems to take care of this. In 3-5 years, Wheeler will be done, Schiefele will be the grizzled vet, and Laine will be considered a vet already too. We'll have new shiny pieces that we'll be afraid of missing their prime, just like now, they will just have different names.



Yeah. That's the cost of contending. That's why I'm glad we're not spending like morons now. When we have the pieces that earn the paycheques we're talking about, we'll be a perennial playoff team. That's okay!



The only way you're getting any player coming off an ELC to sign a long term contract is by paying big for them. Especially these two players, and especially if they eat into UFA years.
I meant who cares as an exaggeration
It wasn't genuine

I said it because I'd rather have 6 year then 8, if he's gonna cost 8 million
It kind feels like he's taking a million away from scheifele tho

Scheifele gives a deal and Trouba asks for full price

I still don't think he's worth 8, but if it's 8 because you're paying for 2 ufa years? 7.5 for 8

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05-24-2017, 06:57 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peggy View Post
Pretty sure they our a limit on what the limit of the salary cap is
Could be world, but pretty sure you can't be asking for 20 million a year

And how is Ovechkin's contract not relevant to Trouba?
Ovechkin who is the greatest scorer of this era is at a limit of 9.5
Are you telling me if ovechkin was s young and signing a new contract he makes more?

Trouba ain't an 8 million defensman. I don't know who's telling you this, but he's not. I've been looking st other contracts and you're argument is they were signed 3 years ago
We're not going to agree, and you have some ... curious thoughts regarding how contracts in the NHL work, so let's just agree to disagree.

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Old
05-24-2017, 07:06 PM
  #49
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I still don't think Trouba signs an 8 year deal. If he signs long term with the Jets I expect a 5 year deal in around $7 M AAV. Keeps him in his 20's for an absolute monster UFA deal to take him into his late 30's. I think the Jets could roll with that. I will add Trouba will have to prove worth it, which he hasn't yet.

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Old
05-24-2017, 07:09 PM
  #50
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Young Jacob may get exactly what he wants and yet still be unhappy after the second year of a long contract then what ?
I really hope this organization does its homework on Jacob's desire to be in Winnipeg long term.
THAT trumps everything else,
An unhappy player with a longer contract can be devastating to morale.

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