HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Which direction should we go

View Poll Results: What direction should we go
Stay the course, resign who we can and do the best we can replacing depth we lose this offseason 20 39.22%
Major shakeup, trade some of the following( Ovi, Holtby, Backstrom, Carlson, Mojo) 24 47.06%
Fire Trotz 21 41.18%
Keep Trotz 2 3.92%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-27-2017, 02:06 PM
  #1
TheDayMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 1,245
vCash: 500
Which direction should we go

I understand this may lead to a roster discussion thread for which we already have a thread for, so mods bare with me. This is to see what us fans want to see regarding the future of the team at this point, as there seems to be many different "camps" for what we should do.

TheDayMan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2017, 02:45 PM
  #2
PB12
Registered User
 
PB12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,378
vCash: 500
What i want to see is what everybody THINKS will happen. Not what everybody wants. We have seen everybodys opinion.

PB12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2017, 04:41 PM
  #3
amjay13
Registered User
 
amjay13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 3,986
vCash: 500
Would be foolish to blow it up right now. They won't be the favorite to win the Cup next year but they'll be a contender. As Caps fans we have been spoiled by being that almost every year of the Ovechkin era. There are only a handful of teams each year that are legit contenders. The Caps probably have two more years of that before it is truly time to rebuild.

amjay13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2017, 04:54 PM
  #4
Ovechkins Wodka
Registered User
 
Ovechkins Wodka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: DC
Posts: 6,551
vCash: 500
Sneak into the playoffs and be out in the 2nd round

Ovechkins Wodka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2017, 04:54 PM
  #5
hockeykicker
Moderator
 
hockeykicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 21,877
vCash: 500
People need to realize that they really can't trade ovechkin. Holtby has to be traded within the next two weeks or he isn't going anywhere. Backstrom has a 23 team no trade clause so good luck finding one of the remaining 8 teams and who knows on Carlson

hockeykicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2017, 04:56 PM
  #6
um
Registered User
 
um's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,921
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeykicker View Post
People need to realize that they really can't trade ovechkin. Holtby has to be traded within the next two weeks or he isn't going anywhere. Backstrom has a 23 team no trade clause so good luck finding one of the remaining 8 teams and who knows on Carlson
that's BS. Him being traded would be like Subban or Weber being traded last year.

um is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2017, 05:45 PM
  #7
SpinningEdge
Registered User
 
SpinningEdge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 4,369
vCash: 500
Build from the net out.

This team never gets secondary scoring anyways, and hasn't figured out that a Eller/Beagle centering half your lines are going to do nothing.

Might as well build the team around Holtby - and that means somehow going out and finding a way to get a true #1 D guy. Then build out best D corps you can from there.

SpinningEdge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2017, 06:43 PM
  #8
TheDayMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 1,245
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeykicker View Post
People need to realize that they really can't trade ovechkin. Holtby has to be traded within the next two weeks or he isn't going anywhere. Backstrom has a 23 team no trade clause so good luck finding one of the remaining 8 teams and who knows on Carlson

Does holtby have a nmc kicking in, in two weeks or something ?

TheDayMan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2017, 07:01 PM
  #9
Capsman
Registered User
 
Capsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,525
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinningEdge View Post
Build from the net out.

This team never gets secondary scoring anyways, and hasn't figured out that a Eller/Beagle centering half your lines are going to do nothing.

Might as well build the team around Holtby - and that means somehow going out and finding a way to get a true #1 D guy. Then build out best D corps you can from there.
Our d-corps was plenty good enough to win it all. Who was Pittsburgh's true #1 D in the playoffs? I agree on a 3rd line center, although I'm not convinced Eller can't be the guy with a viable system in place.

Capsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2017, 07:07 PM
  #10
PB12
Registered User
 
PB12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,378
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDayMan View Post
Does holtby have a nmc kicking in, in two weeks or something ?
No. Most people here and around the league are expecting our old friend GMGM to take Grubby. So you keep Holtby or trade hime before the Vegas Draft

PB12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2017, 07:25 PM
  #11
SpinningEdge
Registered User
 
SpinningEdge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 4,369
vCash: 500
Back to back Vezina finalist - and people want him to be traded?

It's not going to happen. Zero chance.

If Caps want to move players - move players who have been at fault for Caps playoff losses. Holtby has one average playoffs and all of a sudden is being ridiculed.

Do people not see what Pitt and Toronto were like offensively in the regular season? Two offensive juggernauts

SpinningEdge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2017, 08:09 PM
  #12
um
Registered User
 
um's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,921
vCash: 500
The only reason to trade Holtby is to free up some cap or your super high on Grubauer, I don't really agree with either reasons. I'd do it if we can get a really good return, like Philly's 2nd overall pick.

I'd much rather trade Ovechkin (9.5), Orpik (5.5), and Johansson (4.5) and free up 19.5 million. Obviously I'd expect 10-15 million back with good players coming back, plus we'd still have enough room to bring back Oshie and others.


Last edited by um: 05-27-2017 at 08:41 PM.
um is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2017, 09:15 PM
  #13
g00n
Global Moderator
♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
 
g00n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 16,583
vCash: 500
IMO fans seem much more open to a lot of different scenarios this year. In the past it was probably 80% chatter about trading 2 or 3 whipping boys who people hoped would bring some kind of Lindros value.

I would like to see big, meaningful changes from the top down. I expect to see about the same thing we saw the last few years: a few guys walk and a few others come in.

__________________
g00n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2017, 11:48 PM
  #14
twabby
Registered User
 
twabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,211
vCash: 500
Fire Trotz. He's a great guy and has a general idea how to build a team for an 82 game stretch but he absolutely cannot adapt or build series-specific strategies, instead opting for long grind-fests.

I'd trade Carlson. Unlike Ovechkin he has a great cap hit that many contenders could find palatable. Tampa seems like a good trade partner, perhaps Toronto. Both have good young forwards (which I think the Caps need) and both need a D and are contenders next season. I'm not interested in signing Carlson long term so I'd trade him now and get a potentially great return since he is a RHD.

I'd look to trade Ovechkin if a good deal comes around but it doesn't look likely. Absolutely no interest in trading Backstrom or Niskanen, and 100% interested in finding a way to dump Orpik.

Play the young AHL guys. Bowey, Vrana, Djoos, Barber, etc. should be given legitimate shots.

twabby is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2017, 08:28 AM
  #15
g00n
Global Moderator
♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
 
g00n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 16,583
vCash: 500
These trades aren't happening. This organization is paralyzed by the restraining aspects of Prospect Theory

https://www.behavioraleconomics.com/...ospect-theory/

Not winning the Cups is not prioritized over having a CHANCE to win the Cup. So the bigger loss is perceived as not making the playoffs no matter what they say. Hence the big moves after the last playoff miss, and the constant "this is fine, we just didn't do X like we should have" background message through little changes after playoff disappointments.

This means the organizational attitude is always "anyone can win in the playoffs", which may be true in the sense that seeding seems to be less important in the current format, or else they for SOME reason believe they keep putting together playoff-ready teams that inexplicably fall short. Since they've had this "just get in" attitude prior to the changes to playoff format I'm inclined to believe they see themselves as viable playoff contenders based on regular season success, and think that "anyone can win" because they don't recognize what separates winners from losers in the postseason. Which means they don't understand what it takes to go deep and will keep repeating these mistakes while making tweaks.

If failure was defined as anything short of winning the Cup in Y years then the script would flip and the loss aversion would change to risk taking. We heard about this "window" for the last 3 years but that's likely going to be another half-measure solution and just more talk.

-Dr. g00n


Last edited by g00n: 05-28-2017 at 08:35 AM.
g00n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2017, 01:37 PM
  #16
CapitalsCupFantasy
Wasted opportunities
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 36,947
vCash: 500
I'd make one foundation shaking trade and rebuild the other losses, start from there.

Hard to disagree with you Goon.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2017, 03:23 PM
  #17
G F O P
Registered User
 
G F O P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 259,220
vCash: 500
Was listening to mvw and wyshinski favors staying the course

G F O P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2017, 03:48 PM
  #18
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
 
Jags's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Kent Island, MD
Country: United States
Posts: 399
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by g00n View Post
These trades aren't happening. This organization is paralyzed by the restraining aspects of Prospect Theory

https://www.behavioraleconomics.com/...ospect-theory/

Not winning the Cups is not prioritized over having a CHANCE to win the Cup. So the bigger loss is perceived as not making the playoffs no matter what they say. Hence the big moves after the last playoff miss, and the constant "this is fine, we just didn't do X like we should have" background message through little changes after playoff disappointments.

This means the organizational attitude is always "anyone can win in the playoffs", which may be true in the sense that seeding seems to be less important in the current format, or else they for SOME reason believe they keep putting together playoff-ready teams that inexplicably fall short. Since they've had this "just get in" attitude prior to the changes to playoff format I'm inclined to believe they see themselves as viable playoff contenders based on regular season success, and think that "anyone can win" because they don't recognize what separates winners from losers in the postseason. Which means they don't understand what it takes to go deep and will keep repeating these mistakes while making tweaks.

If failure was defined as anything short of winning the Cup in Y years then the script would flip and the loss aversion would change to risk taking. We heard about this "window" for the last 3 years but that's likely going to be another half-measure solution and just more talk.

-Dr. g00n
It's the "inexplicably fall short" part I disagree with. If we were losing to teams that get knocked out themselves, sure. But when you're losing to a team that goes on to win the Cup (maybe twice), the narrative changes a bit. And I agree that it's not an excuse, but it IS different to get ousted by an inferior team than it is to get knocked out late in a series by the champs.

So if you mean "inexplicably" like "this team is finding a way to lose," I disagree. They lost to great teams. But if you mean it in the sense that the organization can't seem to identify and repair their own weaknesses and failures, I definitely agree with that. Trotz has to shoulder a lot of the blame this time, and since it looks like he's not getting fired, I hope his feet are held to the fire so he'll open his eyes.

Jags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2017, 05:03 PM
  #19
g00n
Global Moderator
♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
 
g00n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 16,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jags View Post
It's the "inexplicably fall short" part I disagree with. If we were losing to teams that get knocked out themselves, sure. But when you're losing to a team that goes on to win the Cup (maybe twice), the narrative changes a bit. And I agree that it's not an excuse, but it IS different to get ousted by an inferior team than it is to get knocked out late in a series by the champs.

So if you mean "inexplicably" like "this team is finding a way to lose," I disagree. They lost to great teams. But if you mean it in the sense that the organization can't seem to identify and repair their own weaknesses and failures, I definitely agree with that. Trotz has to shoulder a lot of the blame this time, and since it looks like he's not getting fired, I hope his feet are held to the fire so he'll open his eyes.

You're overthinking it and over analyzing one word in a phrase. The point is they keep creating teams that dominate the regular season and they expect these teams to go deep in the playoffs. For some reason they can't seem to fathom, that doesn't happen. That's the meaning.

They/we can't keep looking at how far the team that beat us goes in the playoffs as if that means anything when the goal is to get PAST those teams.

They have to figure out WHY this keeps happening and take different steps to correct it, not just throw (mostly the same ) crap at the wall and hope things work out.

g00n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2017, 06:00 PM
  #20
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
 
Jags's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Kent Island, MD
Country: United States
Posts: 399
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by g00n View Post
You're overthinking it
No, I'm picking at you overthinking it. The difference between winning and losing was one game. It would have been nice if our offense showed up for that game. It's that simple.

That you guys want to dissect the minutiae to find the mental block or problem player or system or coach or whatever else... THAT is overthinking it.

Quote:
They/we can't keep looking at how far the team that beat us goes in the playoffs as if that means anything when the goal is to get PAST those teams.
Right. It's immaterial to look at the reality of teams that advance when your problem is not advancing. It means nothing to quantify the degree of your loss to ascertain whether it's something small or something that needs blowing up.

The rational thing to do is to start dismantling a league-leading team over a single loss because of your overanalysis and frustration.

It was one game. The issues were depth scoring and coaching, same as last year.

Quote:
They have to figure out WHY this keeps happening and take different steps to correct it, not just throw (mostly the same ) crap at the wall and hope things work out.
Right, cut your nose off to spite your face, throw the baby out with the bathwater, and all that other cliched nonsense.

They know why this keeps happening. Whether they fix it remains to be seen, but you're acting like they got blown out by a crap team. They didn't. They got narrowly beaten by champions. Stop overreacting.

Jags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2017, 06:43 PM
  #21
g00n
Global Moderator
♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
 
g00n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 16,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jags View Post
No, I'm picking at you overthinking it. The difference between winning and losing was one game. It would have been nice if our offense showed up for that game. It's that simple.

That you guys want to dissect the minutiae to find the mental block or problem player or system or coach or whatever else... THAT is overthinking it.



Right. It's immaterial to look at the reality of teams that advance when your problem is not advancing. It means nothing to quantify the degree of your loss to ascertain whether it's something small or something that needs blowing up.

The rational thing to do is to start dismantling a league-leading team over a single loss because of your overanalysis and frustration.

It was one game. The issues were depth scoring and coaching, same as last year.



Right, cut your nose off to spite your face, throw the baby out with the bathwater, and all that other cliched nonsense.

They know why this keeps happening. Whether they fix it remains to be seen, but you're acting like they got blown out by a crap team. They didn't. They got narrowly beaten by champions. Stop overreacting.
Yeah, that sure resembles what I actually said.

g00n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2017, 07:27 PM
  #22
blokeyhighlander
May = :golfnana:
 
blokeyhighlander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NC
Country: United States
Posts: 2,120
vCash: 500
Let Trotz go if you can get a (good) veteran coach who has won the Cup before, otherwise keep him and then keep an eye towards firing him during a slump during the regular season and bring in an up and coming coach who can provide a spark.

Keep Holtby, try to keep as many other players as possible. No big trades unless we're filling a big need for a marginal loss.

Ask Ovi to come in much lighter.

Make playoffs as a mid seed.

blokeyhighlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2017, 07:59 PM
  #23
Mr Gone
Green = Man of Glass
 
Mr Gone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,024
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blokeyhighlander View Post
Let Trotz go if you can get a (good) veteran coach who has won the Cup before, otherwise keep him and then keep an eye towards firing him during a slump during the regular season and bring in an up and coming coach who can provide a spark.

Keep Holtby, try to keep as many other players as possible. No big trades unless we're filling a big need for a marginal loss.

Ask Ovi to come in much lighter.

Make playoffs as a mid seed.
You sound like you think the past 10 season have a complete success.


Last edited by Mr Gone: 05-29-2017 at 09:52 AM.
Mr Gone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2017, 03:50 AM
  #24
Revelation
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,519
vCash: 500
If they replace Trotz with Sutter, dump Orpik and tread water everywhere else (keep Oshie, Williams and their top 4, lose Grubauer and Johansson and replace Johansson well enough) they could Nashville their way in next year. Pitt will be exhausted after 2 consecutive cup runs.

Revelation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2017, 05:47 PM
  #25
Eazy for Kuzy
Forever a Caps fan
 
Eazy for Kuzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Montreal
Country: France
Posts: 20,890
vCash: 439
Staying the course makes no sense to me, there's obviously something wrong with this team. Firing Trotz is a risk, we could end up with a worse coach.

The one thing that makes sense is to shake up the core. I'd target the blue line more than the forwards. Move Alzner, Carlson and Orpik. Start again with a top D, and fill out the rest of the top 4 with Niskanen, Orlov and Schmidt.

Eazy for Kuzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:42 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.