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Roster Speculation 2017-18 Part 3

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05-30-2017, 09:25 AM
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makeitburn
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Roster Speculation 2017-18 Part 3

Lehner ain't worth a contract that gets us into cap trouble (longer term). He lost us more games on his own than he won us last year. Goalie is the last thing this team should be focusing on right now.

Previous thread: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=2346407


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05-30-2017, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by makeitburn View Post
Lehner ain't worth a contract that gets us into cap trouble (longer term). He lost us more games on his own than he won us last year. Goalie is the last thing this team should be focusing on right now.
What kind of contract do you think Lehner might get?

I don't think he will get something that will get the Sabres into cap trouble.

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05-30-2017, 09:56 AM
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What kind of contract do you think Lehner might get?

I don't think he will get something that will get the Sabres into cap trouble.
I'd have to imagine that it will have to be close to, or exceed, what Carolina gave Darling (4 x $4.150m).


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05-30-2017, 10:14 AM
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My original point: it's not about finding the next Fleury or Miller. It's about maintaining a cost-controlled goaltender duo which features a starter on the edge of big money, and a young back up ready to be a starter.

GMJB should re-sign Lehner for about what Darling got, and work a protection deal for Ullmark. When Lehner is near the end of his contract, let him go and give that type of deal to Ullmark. Petersen is the back up.

That keeps Buffalo out of Fleury/Crawford goalie jail.

Note: I'm a goalie. No anti-tender agenda. Every team isn't finding a Renne. And even if you do, there's a shelf life on elite play in net.

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05-30-2017, 10:18 AM
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My original point: it's not about finding the next Fleury or Miller. It's about maintaining a cost-controlled goaltender duo which features a starter on the edge of big money, and a young back up ready to be a starter.

GMJB should re-sign Lehner for about what Darling got, and work a protection deal for Ullmark. When Lehner is near the end of his contract, let him go and give that type of deal to Ullmark. Petersen is the back up.

That keeps Buffalo out of Fleury/Crawford goalie jail.

Note: I'm a goalie. No anti-tender agenda. Every team isn't finding a Renne. And even if you do, there's a shelf life on elite play in net.
seconded.

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05-30-2017, 10:27 AM
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My original point: it's not about finding the next Fleury or Miller. It's about maintaining a cost-controlled goaltender duo which features a starter on the edge of big money, and a young back up ready to be a starter.

GMJB should re-sign Lehner for about what Darling got, and work a protection deal for Ullmark. When Lehner is near the end of his contract, let him go and give that type of deal to Ullmark. Petersen is the back up.

That keeps Buffalo out of Fleury/Crawford goalie jail.

Note: I'm a goalie. No anti-tender agenda. Every team isn't finding a Renne. And even if you do, there's a shelf life on elite play in net.
I'd be down with that. If we give 4.5 mil+ long term deal to Lehner I'm gonna shoot myself. I almost rate Ullmark higher than him already and he's not even been given a chance to play as the confidence of a starter yet. And my point about drafting a good goalie prospect in the other thread is so that we have someone to step in later in case of need - goalies go up and down. Also I'm not optimistic Cal re-signs here, especially if Ullmark stays. I just love how everyone is defending Lehner as a long term starter and solution. If he does Niemi numbers next year, everyone will be crucifying him and wanting him out... Have realistic expectations about an unproven goalie now so that you don't cry foul later. Short show me deal with new coach, GM and system, then go from there depending on if he performs well and consistently enough for an NHL starter, rather than put all your eggs in one basket with a big long-term contract. I love the guy's attitude and I like he's a bit of psycho, but I just don't rate his skillset too highly right now. I hope he proves me wrong of course as I realize he's our starter for at least an year or two.

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05-30-2017, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
My original point: it's not about finding the next Fleury or Miller. It's about maintaining a cost-controlled goaltender duo which features a starter on the edge of big money, and a young back up ready to be a starter.

GMJB should re-sign Lehner for about what Darling got, and work a protection deal for Ullmark. When Lehner is near the end of his contract, let him go and give that type of deal to Ullmark. Petersen is the back up.

That keeps Buffalo out of Fleury/Crawford goalie jail.

Note: I'm a goalie. No anti-tender agenda. Every team isn't finding a Renne. And even if you do, there's a shelf life on elite play in net.
then come with something more than "a protection deal", if a 6th keeps him from getting selected ok, any more than a 6th and ill sign 1 for pennies on the market and still give Lehner his 4 mil contract, you stay out of Fluery/Crawford by not giving them money

bigger question, with all the goalies out there why is Ullmark the one you think gets taken?

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05-30-2017, 10:32 AM
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Should have a GDT for the expansion draft with this revelation:

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05-30-2017, 10:35 AM
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then come with something more than "a protection deal", if a 6th keeps him from getting selected ok, any more than a 6th and ill sign 1 for pennies on the market and still give Lehner his 4 mil contract, you stay out of Fluery/Crawford by not giving them money

bigger question, with all the goalies out there why is Ullmark the one you think gets taken?
Cause the rest of our exposed players list will suck hard. He's probably the only one Vegas won't mind on their team even if they don't particularly think he will be top 3 G exposed.

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05-30-2017, 10:36 AM
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I'd be down with that. If we give 4.5 mil+ long term deal to Lehner I'm gonna shoot myself. I almost rate Ullmark higher than him already and he's not even been given a chance to play as the confidence of a starter yet. And my point about drafting a good goalie prospect in the other thread is so that we have someone to step in later in case of need - goalies go up and down. Also I'm not optimistic Cal re-signs here, especially if Ullmark stays. I just love how everyone is defending Lehner as a long term starter and solution. If he does Niemi numbers next year, everyone will be crucifying him and wanting him out... Have realistic expectations about an unproven goalie now so that you don't cry foul later. Short show me deal with new coach, GM and system, then go from there depending on if he performs well and consistently enough for an NHL starter, rather than put all your eggs in one basket with a big long-term contract. I love the guy's attitude and I like he's a bit of psycho, but I just don't rate his skillset too highly right now. I hope he proves me wrong of course as I realize he's our starter for at least an year or two.
I don't know if Lehner is the long term solution. If he proves himself on this next contract then sweet. If not, Buffalo is ready to part ways.

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05-30-2017, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Push Dr Tracksuit View Post
then come with something more than "a protection deal", if a 6th keeps him from getting selected ok, any more than a 6th and ill sign 1 for pennies on the market and still give Lehner his 4 mil contract, you stay out of Fluery/Crawford by not giving them money

bigger question, with all the goalies out there why is Ullmark the one you think gets taken?
McPhee can put him in the AHL. The gap in Vegas' organization will be AHL prospects nearing their NHL time.

Getting a cheap UFA goalie defeats the purpose of what I proposed. When the starter is constantly pushed by the young back up, and the young back up is constantly trying to take the job, the team gets great goalie play. I'll take that over a street free agent backup who isn't going to win the starting job.

Parting with a prospect like Hagel to protect Ullmark is easily worth the goalie set up I proposed.

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05-30-2017, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I'd have to imagine that it will have to be close to, or exceed, what Carolina gave Darling (4 x $4.150m).
If they are looking at signing Lehner to a four year deal, then that neighborhood looks about right given what Dubnyk and Talbot got.

But, that deal doesn't put the Sabres in cap trouble.

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05-30-2017, 11:14 AM
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I'd be down with that. If we give 4.5 mil+ long term deal to Lehner I'm gonna shoot myself. I almost rate Ullmark higher than him already and he's not even been given a chance to play as the confidence of a starter yet. And my point about drafting a good goalie prospect in the other thread is so that we have someone to step in later in case of need - goalies go up and down. Also I'm not optimistic Cal re-signs here, especially if Ullmark stays. I just love how everyone is defending Lehner as a long term starter and solution. If he does Niemi numbers next year, everyone will be crucifying him and wanting him out... Have realistic expectations about an unproven goalie now so that you don't cry foul later. Short show me deal with new coach, GM and system, then go from there depending on if he performs well and consistently enough for an NHL starter, rather than put all your eggs in one basket with a big long-term contract. I love the guy's attitude and I like he's a bit of psycho, but I just don't rate his skillset too highly right now. I hope he proves me wrong of course as I realize he's our starter for at least an year or two.
Antti Niemi won a Cup.

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05-30-2017, 11:17 AM
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05-30-2017, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
McPhee can put him in the AHL. The gap in Vegas' organization will be AHL prospects nearing their NHL time.

Getting a cheap UFA goalie defeats the purpose of what I proposed. When the starter is constantly pushed by the young back up, and the young back up is constantly trying to take the job, the team gets great goalie play. I'll take that over a street free agent backup who isn't going to win the starting job.

Parting with a prospect like Hagel to protect Ullmark is easily worth the goalie set up I proposed.
i guess i extend my philosophy of just grab a goalie because systems and defense determine their ability more than who has the better one to what Vegas will do, I'd take girgs/carrier/foligno/larsson over Ullmark without much hesitation

I also extend that to if the goalie plays better with competition, put him in a good system with a good defense and he could have lalime as his backup and he'll have good numbers, plus, I know people like getting on Lehner for the shootouts but his regulation numbers were pretty good with a sidewalk sale backup behind him, I'm not sure how much better anyone should expect him to play just because now there's 'competition'

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05-30-2017, 11:37 AM
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i guess i extend my philosophy of just grab a goalie because systems and defense determine their ability more than who has the better one to what Vegas will do, I'd take girgs/carrier/foligno/larsson over Ullmark without much hesitation

I also extend that to if the goalie plays better with competition, put him in a good system with a good defense and he could have lalime as his backup and he'll have good numbers, plus, I know people like getting on Lehner for the shootouts but his regulation numbers were pretty good with a sidewalk sale backup behind him, I'm not sure how much better anyone should expect him to play just because now there's 'competition'
I don't see any of girgensons-foligno-Larsson-carrier being available. Those 4, Okposo, ror and kane are the 7

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05-30-2017, 11:39 AM
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I don't see any of girgensons-foligno-Larsson-carrier being available. Those 4, Okposo, ror and kane are the 7
I guess so, we are pretty thin

point stands, I don't really care where Ullmark ends up

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05-30-2017, 11:50 AM
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I'd have to imagine that it will have to be close to, or exceed, what Carolina gave Darling (4 x $4.150m).
Nowhere close to worth it on dollar nor term.

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05-30-2017, 12:11 PM
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i guess i extend my philosophy of just grab a goalie because systems and defense determine their ability more than who has the better one to what Vegas will do, I'd take girgs/carrier/foligno/larsson over Ullmark without much hesitation

I also extend that to if the goalie plays better with competition, put him in a good system with a good defense and he could have lalime as his backup and he'll have good numbers, plus, I know people like getting on Lehner for the shootouts but his regulation numbers were pretty good with a sidewalk sale backup behind him, I'm not sure how much better anyone should expect him to play just because now there's 'competition'
Most of goaltending is about mental focus. System and defense doesn't sharpen focus. Competition, both opposition and the other goalie, sharpens focus. You want Lehner to improve? Put a motivated and talented Ullmark as his backup. A Lalime type won't do it.

That's worth trading a prospect for me. And I do care where Ullmark ends up. Buffalo has spent years developing him, and I think he'll eventually develop into a starter.


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05-30-2017, 12:33 PM
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There are so many goalies that are going to be available to Vegas - young ones, 'middle aged' ones and some older guys. I do think Ullmark is in the mix but he doesn't stand out really from guys like Pickard, Grubauer, Subban. But I don't think we should gamble, we need to keep Ullmark and get rid of one of Ennis or Moulson. Both those players make sense for an expansion team that will struggle to score goals - either of them could score 20. We have an extra 2nd round pick for currency.

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05-30-2017, 12:53 PM
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There are so many goalies that are going to be available to Vegas - young ones, 'middle aged' ones and some older guys. I do think Ullmark is in the mix but he doesn't stand out really from guys like Pickard, Grubauer, Subban. But I don't think we should gamble, we need to keep Ullmark and get rid of one of Ennis or Moulson. Both those players make sense for an expansion team that will struggle to score goals - either of them could score 20. We have an extra 2nd round pick for currency.
I have been saying this since the start but it is complete wishful thinking on the Sabres part.

Put yourself in Vegas' position. In what world do Ennis or Moulson make sense from a Vegas pov?

Ullmark is the only even vaguely attractive asset they can claim from us. If they decide on another goalie combination even then, what would possess them to take on a bad contract? More likely they decide we have nothing they really want and burn the pick on a guy like falk.

Not every pick they make has to become part of their squad. 30 into 23 doesn't go.

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05-30-2017, 01:21 PM
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I have been saying this since the start but it is complete wishful thinking on the Sabres part.

Put yourself in Vegas' position. In what world do Ennis or Moulson make sense from a Vegas pov?

Ullmark is the only even vaguely attractive asset they can claim from us. If they decide on another goalie combination even then, what would possess them to take on a bad contract? More likely they decide we have nothing they really want and burn the pick on a guy like falk.

Not every pick they make has to become part of their squad. 30 into 23 doesn't go.
Vegas is an expansion team in a brand new non-traditional hockey market, what's available to them via the expansion draft especially at forward depth is a dog's breaksfast. Moulson had an ok season this past year, he competed hard, scored 14 goals - and let's face it he will play for us on a team we think can compete for a playoff spot. Ennis' career has been derailed the past 2 seasons due to concussion problems, he seemed to be showing signs of returning to form late this past season. He is 27 and when healthy an entertaining player who has scored 20 goals multiple times. We could make a deal with McPhee conditional on the number of games he plays for Vegas.

As a Sabres fan at this point I kinda prefer Moulson to Ennis, he can play on the 4th line and 2nd PP unit for me until his deal is up.

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05-30-2017, 01:22 PM
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I protect Ullmark. I do not want to pay 4 million a year for 4 years for Lehner when still not sure what we have with him. There are a lot of goalies in and around his skill set that will be available and likely cheaper. Protect ROR,Okposo, Kane, Girgensons, Foligno, Carriere, and Larsson. Protect Risto, McCabe and Falk. Now Vegas will have to take money off our payroll if I have this figured right--and someone will tell me if I am wrong!

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05-30-2017, 01:30 PM
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I have been saying this since the start but it is complete wishful thinking on the Sabres part.

Put yourself in Vegas' position. In what world do Ennis or Moulson make sense from a Vegas pov?

Ullmark is the only even vaguely attractive asset they can claim from us. If they decide on another goalie combination even then, what would possess them to take on a bad contract? More likely they decide we have nothing they really want and burn the pick on a guy like falk.

Not every pick they make has to become part of their squad. 30 into 23 doesn't go.
Obviously with 30 picks and 23 roster spots someone will have to go to the AHL. That someone could be Ullmark.

Vegas can take a bad goalie contract (1-2yrs left) and then have Ullmark step in then.

Your notion that Ennis/Moulson does not make sense for Vegas is shortsighted. Ennis or Moulson would be attractive to Vegas... for a price. That goes for virtually any bad contract in the league on 30 other teams.

Ullmark is definitely one of the only "valuable" pieces Vegas can pick from Buffalo due to our roster.

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05-30-2017, 01:59 PM
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Antti Niemi won a Cup.
So? Does that mean we will with a G with him? Hell no.

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