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Roster Speculation 2017-18 Part 3

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Old
05-31-2017, 12:37 PM
  #76
Sabresfansince1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boots electric View Post
i know we would have to add. i'm asking what, in addition to lehtonen's contract, would buffalo have to add.
Buffalo isn't a great trade partner for Dallas because they need D-men.

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05-31-2017, 01:02 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by HeartforReinheart View Post
He doesn't have a choice. What will he do sit out for the year? Come on, what kind of leverage do you think this guy has? We have his rights for 2 years.
The leverage that there seems to be a better chance than not that the organization's top goaltending prospect is going elsewhere, and Vegas may choose Ullmark - and ignoring Ullmark's lack of AHL success, to date. Then what? Keep playing hardball with your incumbent starter? You pretty clearly want Lehner gone sooner than later - see your "promise Petersen the job" comment, despite Petersen having never seen a shot from a professional hockey player before - so you want Botterill to engage in a ****-measuring contest with Lehner in an attempt to force him into taking a one-year deal.

Fortunately, Botterill seems far more measured than you, and I expect he'll look at comparable deals and try to find something that works for both Lehner and the team. Given that Botterill is new to the organization, I doubt that he'll want to marry himself to Lehner for four years, but I'm expecting a three-year deal in the neighborhood of guys like Darling and Talbot.

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Old
05-31-2017, 01:24 PM
  #78
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http://www.pensburgh.com/2017/5/31/1...th-olli-maatta

Quote:
Conclusions and What to Do Next

So, yes Maatta's numbers this year were not good. But context is important: he got the worst zone starts (when compared to his teammates) and the worst regular partner of his career (Trevor Daley's individual CF% of 46.47 is worst on the team among defense-men).

All of this data also reveals something else: Maatta is not a #1 guy. He's not Kris Letang. He can't drive play at elite levels, carry a pairing all on his own, and make bad possession players serviceable. And that's OK. He's not being paid to be that guy. Defensemen with cap hits comparable to Maatta's $4.08 million are guys like Jake Gardiner, Cam Fowler, Alexei Emelin, Alec Martinez, and Niklas Hjalmarsson. None of those guys is a true #1 defenseman. Some aren't even the clear #2 on their teams. But they all have one thing in common: they spend most of their time paired with other good defensemen. In 2016-2017, the most common partners for the aforementioned players were Carrick, Vatanen, Weber, Muzzin, and Keith, respectively.

And Maatta is a guy who plays great when given a good partner. The numbers bear that out. He's done his best work with Niskanen and Letang. In both cases, the pairing wasn't just average; they excelled.

And further proof of that can be seen in his limited work with Schultz this year. Together, they posted a 56.2 CF% in about 65 minutes of ice time during the regular season; that's really good and it bears giving them an extended look.

So at this point the path forward should be fairly clear: if the Penguins want to get the most out of the beleaguered 22 year old they've invested so much faith and money in, they need to give him a better partner. I say play him with Letang and watch them dominate as they have in the past. Worried about breaking up the Dumoulin-Letang pairing? Don't be. Just play Dumo with Schultz. In 254 5v5 minutes this year, they posted a 52.12 CF%. That's darn good in it's own right and the sample is big enough to show it's no fluke.

Ideally, Trevor Daley is not re-signed this off-season. If Cole is still with the team, he should be the #5 defenseman and spots 6 through 8 can be filled with players already in the organization or with inexpensive free agents if need be.

Either way, the team should be set with a very capable top-4 and Maatta should return to form, so long as they don't tie another boat anchor around his neck and expect him, and his numbers, to stay afloat.
A good read on a D that Botts knows well.

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Old
05-31-2017, 01:25 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by HeartforReinheart View Post
Give Lehner a 1 year deal and tell Cal Peterson he is the future. See if he signs. I wouldn't be against trading Lehner perhaps to Las Vegas? Not sure we would get the value back or what Kind of Goalies will be available to LV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartforReinheart View Post
He doesn't have a choice. What will he do sit out for the year? Come on, what kind of leverage do you think this guy has? We have his rights for 2 years.
You were a Murray hater, and yet you propose this nonsense?

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05-31-2017, 01:43 PM
  #80
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Maata made Bobby Ryan look fast. Abort, abort

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05-31-2017, 05:04 PM
  #81
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05-31-2017, 05:32 PM
  #82
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Unless Treliving isn't good at counting to 30, I'm confused at to why ALL the GM's wouldn't be there for the prospect interviews. Who else would a team want to lead the interviews other than their GM's??


Last edited by lancaster14: 05-31-2017 at 05:49 PM.
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Old
05-31-2017, 05:37 PM
  #83
Jame
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If we sign Petersen...
8th overall and Lehner
For
TJ Brodie

?

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Old
05-31-2017, 05:47 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
If we sign Petersen...
8th overall and Lehner
For
TJ Brodie

?
its an....idea, but who is starting in net for Buffalo? I still want to see another season of Lehner as the starter behind a better D & no Disco before moving on. Ullmark & Petersen obviously need more seasoning.

Please dont say Mason...or Pavs...or Elliot

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05-31-2017, 06:02 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Sabreality View Post
its an....idea, but who is starting in net for Buffalo? I still want to see another season of Lehner as the starter behind a better D & no Disco before moving on. Ullmark & Petersen obviously need more seasoning.

Please dont say Mason...or Pavs...or Elliot
a warm body with pads on?

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Old
05-31-2017, 06:05 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
If we sign Petersen...
8th overall and Lehner
For
TJ Brodie

?
Yup.

/E-40 voice

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Old
05-31-2017, 06:10 PM
  #87
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8 and Lehner for Brodie? Done. And I am not worried about who will be in net. This is Buffalo, save for Essensa and Lalime every goalie we put out will be fine.

If we did do the trade above maybe we can target cdh and Halak. Taking Halak might lower the cost on cdh and we get our stopgap.

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05-31-2017, 06:26 PM
  #88
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I'd do Lehner and 8OA for Brodie or similar dman even without signing Petersen. Ullmark and Nilsson tandem is fine.

Ristolainen, Brodie, McCabe, Antipin, Guhle, Bogosian, Gorges, Faulk

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Old
05-31-2017, 06:27 PM
  #89
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If Lehner is gone and 8th for TJ Brodie I would resign Nillson to a one-two year cheap contract. At least for this year.

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05-31-2017, 06:35 PM
  #90
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I think they'd want more. Maybe Nylander & Lehner for Brodie? I feel like he's pretty untouchable.

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Old
05-31-2017, 06:51 PM
  #91
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One thing to keep in mind if you're trading Lehner before the expansion draft is we would not have any goaltenders to meet the exposure requirements (assuming we'd protect Ullmark), as Kasdorf is exempt (2nd year pro). You'd need to add an exposable goalie either in the same deal or in a separate deal, or re-sign Nillson before the draft to expose him.

If you make the deal after the expansion draft, then of course there's the risk of Ullmark being taken unless you throw something at Vegas to take someone else.

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05-31-2017, 06:56 PM
  #92
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There not trading Lehner so this is a moot argument. The GM already said he has bigger issues and is fine with Lehner as the starter this year.

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05-31-2017, 07:53 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace View Post
There not trading Lehner so this is a moot argument. The GM already said he has bigger issues and is fine with Lehner as the starter this year.
ya and im sure he'd go "pft brodie, i'm fine with lehner:

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Old
05-31-2017, 07:57 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Push Dr Tracksuit View Post
ya and im sure he'd go "pft brodie, i'm fine with lehner:
I'm sure he can differentiate real offers from hfboard fantasy

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Old
05-31-2017, 08:01 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Push Dr Tracksuit View Post
ya and im sure he'd go "pft brodie, i'm fine with lehner:
No but I'm pretty sure when talking about Brodie, Treliving would go "pft, Lehner".

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Old
05-31-2017, 08:04 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Push Dr Tracksuit View Post
ya and im sure he'd go "pft brodie, i'm fine with lehner:
so Lehners terrible, but he's gonna be the add to a crapshoot at 8 to get CGY to trade a quality Dman entering his prime on a solid 3y deal. HF logic.

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05-31-2017, 08:05 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Sabreality View Post
so Lehners terrible, but he's gonna be the add to a crapshoot at 8 to get CGY to trade a quality Dman entering his prime on a solid 3y deal. HF logic.
Which was exactly my point, if lehner is the add that returns bodie, botts isn't turning it down just because he's fine with lehner

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05-31-2017, 09:08 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Push Dr Tracksuit View Post
i guess i extend my philosophy of just grab a goalie because systems and defense determine their ability more than who has the better one to what Vegas will do, I'd take girgs/carrier/foligno/larsson over Ullmark without much hesitation

I also extend that to if the goalie plays better with competition, put him in a good system with a good defense and he could have lalime as his backup and he'll have good numbers, plus, I know people like getting on Lehner for the shootouts but his regulation numbers were pretty good with a sidewalk sale backup behind him, I'm not sure how much better anyone should expect him to play just because now there's 'competition'

Foligno is garbage. Nothing more than a big 4th liner. He gets the benefit of the doubt among most Sabres fans because he was born in Buffalo and his Dad was a good player for us. Ullmark all day over Foligno.

Girgs isn't even a shadow of what he used to be. I'd trade him. Girgs are pretty easy to find nowadays.

Larsson and Carrier are good bottom 6 players.

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05-31-2017, 09:10 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Sabreality View Post
so Lehners terrible, but he's gonna be the add to a crapshoot at 8 to get CGY to trade a quality Dman entering his prime on a solid 3y deal. HF logic.
Brodie entered his prime a few seasons ago.

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Old
05-31-2017, 09:19 PM
  #100
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Of the wingers, besides the guys on the trash heap (Moulson, Ennis), Foligno is the one I'm most confident will be moved before the season. He's somewhere between good 4th liner and average 3rd liner, but he's arb-eligible and he's working off a $2.25m salary. Based on his last name, size, and the grit-character combo, I'm sure a team or two would overvalue Marcus. I think Botterill knows that, and Foligno gets moved this offseason.

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