HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Winnipeg Jets
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Mistakes the Jets Still Regret

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-04-2017, 05:29 PM
  #51
Aavco Cup
Registered User
 
Aavco Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 25,475
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Since the Jets 2.0 have nothing to do with the Jets 1.0 it's wrong to include mistakes made by the 1.0 team in with the 2.0 team. Different team, different time, different world.

And since the Jets 1.0 have actually been the dogs for longer than they were in Winnipeg, if we are making a list of mistakes the franchise has made.... I can list more than a few major ones done by the mess they call management in Glendale.
I got the impression he was looking primarily for 1.0 history from the OP.

Aavco Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2017, 05:56 PM
  #52
PhoenixCoyotes19
Registered User
 
PhoenixCoyotes19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 364
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to PhoenixCoyotes19 Send a message via Yahoo to PhoenixCoyotes19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
I got the impression he was looking primarily for 1.0 history from the OP.
Ibwas actually looking at both Jets 1.0 and 2.0 as I wasn't sure if there would be enought mistakes made by the Jets 1.0. However, after reading all everyone's postd there is more than enough to work with. The Wayne Gretzky story is very interesting and i had not even heard of it prior to this thread.

Thanks a lot guys.

PhoenixCoyotes19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2017, 05:59 PM
  #53
DowntownBooster
Registered User
 
DowntownBooster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
I got the impression he was looking primarily for 1.0 history from the OP.
This is one of those situations in which some posters don't think of Jets 1.0 being linked in any way to Jets 2.0 whereas many of us do. They are content to keep the Thrashers history as our history even though most could care less about that history. I find that it's a common theme held by people outside our city but I always find it odd when it's a fellow Winnipegger who wants to keep our heritage separate from our current Jets. I know it's been talked about ad naseum in many threads about linking the histories of various franchises that were separated after relocations but then reuniting the records when a city gets a team back (i.e Charlotte Hornets, Cleveland Browns, Montreal Alouettes, etc.). I will point out again the Montreal Alouettes since they are a Canadian team that even though this version of the team was originally the Baltimore Stallions, they have inherited the history of the original Alouettes and is recognized as such by the CFL. Just because the NHL won't do the same doesn't mean the fans have to follow suit. After all, we are the same fans cheering on the Winnipeg Jets. We can compare both versions of the Jets as one if we choose just like we choose to view the WHA Jets and NHL Jets as one entity even though they played in different leagues and in spite of the NHL not recognizing the WHA.



Last edited by DowntownBooster: 06-04-2017 at 06:04 PM.
DowntownBooster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2017, 06:06 PM
  #54
KingBogo
Admitted Homer
 
KingBogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 14,380
vCash: 1310
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixCoyotes19 View Post
Ibwas actually looking at both Jets 1.0 and 2.0 as I wasn't sure if there would be enought mistakes made by the Jets 1.0. However, after reading all everyone's postd there is more than enough to work with. The Wayne Gretzky story is very interesting and i had not even heard of it prior to this thread.

Thanks a lot guys.
There was lots and lots of mistakes made by the Jets 1.0. You wouldn't think it by some people's opinions, but the Jets 2.0 are far and away better run than the team we had the 1st time around. Mike Smith's selecting of Bautin 17th OA in 1992 was one of the most absurd selections in the history of the entry draft. Imagine Chevy selecting a 25 y/o LHD from the KHL with 3 points last season that no one ever heard of. That was the Bautin pick.

KingBogo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2017, 06:07 PM
  #55
Jets4Life
Registered User
 
Jets4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hellebuyck County
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,403
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsCameHome View Post
But did you get the sweet welcome to the Thunderdome poster?

It was actually the "Thunderdomi." That trade worked well for Winnipeg, and added some much needed physical presence. The Jets turned the corner after that, and ended up 40-37-7 at seasons end.

Jets4Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2017, 06:11 PM
  #56
Jets4Life
Registered User
 
Jets4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hellebuyck County
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,403
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
There was lots and lots of mistakes made by the Jets 1.0. You wouldn't think it by some people's opinions, but the Jets 2.0 are far and away better run than the team we had the 1st time around. Mike Smith's selecting of Bautin 17th OA in 1992 was one of the most absurd selections in the history of the entry draft. Imagine Chevy selecting a 25 y/o LHD from the KHL with 3 points last season that no one ever heard of. That was the Bautin pick.
The Bautin pick was horrible, but Smith did select a few gems from Russia. Zhamnov was a steal. Davydov started off on fire, but he just did not ahve a passion for the game. Ulanov was an ok pick. Khabiboulin was an absolute steal. Interestingly enough, Smith was desperate to draft Pavel Bure, but the NHL informed him, the Oilers, and another team that he was ineligible. Vancouver found a loophole and drafted him anyway, which caused a number of teams to rush the podium in the 89' Draft.

Jets4Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2017, 06:26 PM
  #57
nobody important
Won'tGetFooledAgain
 
nobody important's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: a quiet suburb
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,958
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Can you imagine Tarasenko sprinkled in amongst our talented forwards? Yikes.
OK, but back to that whole discussion on changing one event and expecting everything else that follows to stay the same...

Pretty sure if we have Tarasenko, we don't have Laine.

nobody important is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2017, 06:43 PM
  #58
Mortimer Snerd
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,633
vCash: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Can you imagine Tarasenko sprinkled in amongst our talented forwards? Yikes.
If the Thrashers had drafted better in those last 3 years we would not likely have the same forwards we have now. We certainly would not have Armia, Myers, Lemieux, Roslovic - or Boston's 5th.

Mortimer Snerd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2017, 07:19 PM
  #59
Lempo
I heart Toby Enström
 
Lempo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Country: Finland
Posts: 4,581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post
It was actually the "Thunderdomi." That trade worked well for Winnipeg, and added some much needed physical presence. The Jets turned the corner after that, and ended up 40-37-7 at seasons end.
Was it perhaps a "two men enter, one man exits" deal?

Lempo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2017, 09:17 PM
  #60
blues10
Registered User
 
blues10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,280
vCash: 500
Of course it is always easy to look back and criticize.

1. Winnipeg Enterprise Corporation and their involvement with the Jets.
2. Protecting Scott Campbell
3. Drafting Jimmy Mann
4. Mike Smith - Bautin pick and running Ducky out of town is just the start of the list- yes he did some good things but had some major blunders.
5. Selanne trade
7. Babych for Neufeld
8. NHL's opposition to ownership groups
9. Rudy Pilous's scouting report on Gretzky
10. Elynuik for John Druce. In 5 seasons with the Jets Elynuik had 20+ goals 3 times and 30+ goals twice. Druce scored a whopping 6 goals in a Jets uniform.
11. Christian trade.
12. Draper for $1
13. Giving up on Stu Barnes and trading him for Randy Gilhen. Barnes went on to play 1136 NHL games totalling 597 points and playing in two Cup finals.
14. Bob Murdoch's playoff goalie rotation
15. The hype surrounding Paul and Perry Pooley.
16. Losing Hedberg and Nilson to the Rangers
17. Pavelec contract
18. Frolik over Stafford
19. Claude Noel and Wade Flaherty
20. Jets affinity for face punchers

Honourable mention - Logan Stanley pick - I really hope this pic/trade up - works out but will remain a work in progress for sometime.


The Hayward trade was a blip in Jets v 1.0 as was the Ward trade. Fehr was no big deal, Setogucci was much worse. Sutter draft pick sucked but trading up for Zac Yuen was not so good.

blues10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2017, 11:12 PM
  #61
Kyosama
Registered User
 
Kyosama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,282
vCash: 500
Drafting Aaron Ward instead of Peter Forsberg?

Kyosama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2017, 11:38 PM
  #62
Jets4Life
Registered User
 
Jets4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hellebuyck County
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,403
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
If the Thrashers had drafted better in those last 3 years we would not likely have the same forwards we have now. We certainly would not have Armia, Myers, Lemieux, Roslovic - or Boston's 5th.
Would not have mattered that much. We needed a goalie. After six years, we still are looking for a goalie. Once we have a keeper that can post 0.915 or above, things will fall into place. As for Bogosian, Kane, and Burmistrov, they may have turned out better if the Thrashers had not been such a clusterf**k in the last couple of years, and rushed them into the NHL when they each could ahve used a year in the AHL (especially Burmi).

Jets4Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-04-2017, 11:41 PM
  #63
Jets4Life
Registered User
 
Jets4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hellebuyck County
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,403
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
15. The hype surrounding Paul and Perry Pooley.
.
Never heard of them. Do tell...

Jets4Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2017, 07:56 AM
  #64
Peggy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,402
vCash: 500
Not really a regret, But 2015 was not the season to make it to the playoffs, or maybe it was considering we still got a player like Connor

But imagine if we got top 10 and drafted a defenseman like werenski

Peggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2017, 09:27 AM
  #65
WaveRaven
Registered User
 
WaveRaven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Peg
Posts: 1,451
vCash: 109
Wasting picks and letting guys walk ... When you preach draft and develop.

WaveRaven is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2017, 09:50 AM
  #66
Mortimer Snerd
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,633
vCash: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post
Would not have mattered that much. We needed a goalie. After six years, we still are looking for a goalie. Once we have a keeper that can post 0.915 or above, things will fall into place. As for Bogosian, Kane, and Burmistrov, they may have turned out better if the Thrashers had not been such a clusterf**k in the last couple of years, and rushed them into the NHL when they each could ahve used a year in the AHL (especially Burmi).
Yes - we certainly needed a goalie the whole time.

There has been speculation to the effect that Chevy left the job of finding a goalie until he had assembled a team to play in front of the goalie. Maybe with those other 3 players he would have tackled the issue of goaltending earlier. Or maybe not.

Just for fun I'll assume the same finishes in '11, '12, '13, '14, '15. It would have taken a while for those players to have made a difference. '15 we made the play-offs, got 17th pick and Connor fell to us. No reason to change that. I'll assume we made the play-offs again in '16 though, so no Laine - and no Stanley.

Ehlers - Scheifele - Wheeler
Perreault - Granlund - Little
Connor - Petan - Dano
Copp - Lowry - Matthias

OEL - Pietrangelo
Morrissey - Trouba
Enstrom - Postma

Helle - Hutch - pending changes

Buff was traded. The bottom 6 doesn't just fall together naturally. I think the top 12 needs a little work but is still very good. Maybe the Buff return helps sort it out. That is some D corps though.

Edit: Had forgotten Connor. Top 12 works out better with him in. Could swap Copp and Petan. Could move a lot of things around. This is just quick, for fun. If Chevy added a proven goalie that would be quite the lineup even without Laine.

Mortimer Snerd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2017, 11:30 AM
  #67
DowntownBooster
Registered User
 
DowntownBooster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post
Never heard of them. Do tell...
Not much to their story except that Jets GM John Ferguson made them sound like good prospects. The Jets signed Paul Pooley and his twin brother Perry during the summer of 1984. Paul played a total of 15 games over the next two seasons with the Jets. Other than his brief appearance with the Jets, Paul and his brother Perry played 2 seasons with the Sherbrooke Canadiens (1984-85 & 1985-86) and then played 1 with in the IHL with the Fort Wayne Komets in 1986-87. That was it for both of their pro careers.




DowntownBooster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2017, 11:34 AM
  #68
cbcwpg
Registered User
 
cbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between the Pipes
Country: United Nations
Posts: 9,931
vCash: 500
Biggest mistake any franchise could ever make... in hindsight of course.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/b...ckgammon-game/

Nelson Skalbania: I called up Michael Gobuty and said, “I’m going to fold the team. If you want Gretzky, I promised him to you first. You can have Gretzky.” I was always going [to offer Gretzky to] Winnipeg because they had the first right. It was a verbal handshake. So he was going to Winnipeg no matter what.

Michael Gobuty: I’m at home. I get a phone call. [Skalbania] says, “Michael, I’m folding. It’ll be my last game in Indianapolis. I’m blowing my brains out. Why don’t you take Wayne?” I took my wife, Adrienne, and my oldest son, Marshall. I had my own jet in those days. We jumped on the plane, flew to Indianapolis and watched Wayne play. I think he scored two goals. After the game, we went for dinner. I had a drink and Nelson had a drink but Wayne couldn’t even have a beer he was so young. My GM at the time was one of the top two or three in the business, Rudy Pilous. He’d won Stanley Cups and everything. I called him after the meeting in Indianapolis. “No, Gretzky’s too skinny,” he said. “He’s too light. They’ll kill him.”

Michael Gobuty: Nelson slept at my house, and the next day he said, “What are you going to do [about acquiring Gretzky]?” “Nelson, my partners say no,” I said. “Rudy Pilous says no.”

Michael Gobuty: I made the biggest mistake. I talked myself out of it.

cbcwpg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2017, 11:41 AM
  #69
DowntownBooster
Registered User
 
DowntownBooster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Biggest mistake any franchise could ever make... in hindsight of course.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/b...ckgammon-game/

Nelson Skalbania: I called up Michael Gobuty and said, “I’m going to fold the team. If you want Gretzky, I promised him to you first. You can have Gretzky.” I was always going [to offer Gretzky to] Winnipeg because they had the first right. It was a verbal handshake. So he was going to Winnipeg no matter what.

Michael Gobuty: I’m at home. I get a phone call. [Skalbania] says, “Michael, I’m folding. It’ll be my last game in Indianapolis. I’m blowing my brains out. Why don’t you take Wayne?” I took my wife, Adrienne, and my oldest son, Marshall. I had my own jet in those days. We jumped on the plane, flew to Indianapolis and watched Wayne play. I think he scored two goals. After the game, we went for dinner. I had a drink and Nelson had a drink but Wayne couldn’t even have a beer he was so young. My GM at the time was one of the top two or three in the business, Rudy Pilous. He’d won Stanley Cups and everything. I called him after the meeting in Indianapolis. “No, Gretzky’s too skinny,” he said. “He’s too light. They’ll kill him.”

Michael Gobuty: Nelson slept at my house, and the next day he said, “What are you going to do [about acquiring Gretzky]?” “Nelson, my partners say no,” I said. “Rudy Pilous says no.”

Michael Gobuty: I made the biggest mistake. I talked myself out of it.
Definitely the biggest mistake in Jets history. Just to think that we had him and let him go.

Rudy Pilous had also thought the problem with the Jets after the 1974-75 season was that they had too many Europeans. He wanted to get rid of them. Could you imagine if they had listened to him then? Hull thought Pilous's analysis was ridiculous and thank god they kept them as it not only revived and extended Hull's career but gave us some of the best hockey ever played in Winnipeg. Too bad Gobuty didn't dismiss Pilous's observation about Gretzky the same way Hull did about Pilous's observations about the Europeans.



Last edited by DowntownBooster: 06-05-2017 at 11:49 AM.
DowntownBooster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2017, 11:57 AM
  #70
Aavco Cup
Registered User
 
Aavco Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 25,475
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by DowntownBooster View Post
Definitely the biggest mistake in Jets history. Just to think that we had him and let him go.

Rudy Pilous had also thought the problem with the Jets after the 1974-75 season was that they had too many Europeans. He wanted to get rid of them. Could you imagine if they had listened to him then? Hull thought Pilous's analysis was ridiculous and thank god they kept them as it not only revived and extended Hull's career but gave us some of the best hockey ever played in Winnipeg. Too bad Gobuty didn't dismiss Pilous's observation about Gretzky the same way Hull did about Pilous's observations about the Europeans.

If they had taken on Gretzky and protected Nilsson they would have had the 1-2 punch at centre they needed. Who knows if Hawerchuk would have still been in the mix.

Aavco Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2017, 12:10 PM
  #71
Edgar Halliwax
aka Marvin Candle
 
Edgar Halliwax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,835
vCash: 500
Allowing those two blowhard owners who purchased Jets 1.0 in 1995 (or 1996 - it's a long time ago...) to ever step foot in this city - and who subsequently sold the team to someone in the desert - where it has subequently been unprofitable for 20+ years. That's one regret I can think of.

Edgar Halliwax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2017, 02:23 PM
  #72
Mortimer Snerd
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,633
vCash: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by DowntownBooster View Post
Definitely the biggest mistake in Jets history. Just to think that we had him and let him go.

Rudy Pilous had also thought the problem with the Jets after the 1974-75 season was that they had too many Europeans. He wanted to get rid of them. Could you imagine if they had listened to him then? Hull thought Pilous's analysis was ridiculous and thank god they kept them as it not only revived and extended Hull's career but gave us some of the best hockey ever played in Winnipeg. Too bad Gobuty didn't dismiss Pilous's observation about Gretzky the same way Hull did about Pilous's observations about the Europeans.

Biggest mistake in the history of hockey. Anywhere, anytime, ever. But that's life. Learn from mistakes and move on.

Mortimer Snerd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2017, 02:48 PM
  #73
koth
Registered User
 
koth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,900
vCash: 50
How did it come about that Skalbania promised Gretzky to the Jets in the first place?

koth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2017, 03:30 PM
  #74
Aavco Cup
Registered User
 
Aavco Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 25,475
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by koth View Post
How did it come about that Skalbania promised Gretzky to the Jets in the first place?
Gretzky's contract was a "personal services" contract with Skalbania. These were not unusual in the WHA. It protected the player in case the team folded. Skalbania needed to get that off the books. The Jets were probably the most financially secure WHA franchise. It's not surprising that he would start there to find a suitor.

Aavco Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2017, 03:43 PM
  #75
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 19,035
vCash: 500
#NotHiringGarretEarlyOn

garret9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:23 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.