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Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2016-17 Part XXII

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Old
06-04-2017, 10:07 PM
  #51
hughdreamz
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Originally Posted by tigervixxxen View Post
Maybe Sakic already agreed to give assets for Vegas to take someone so he doesn't care who is protected.
I hope this isn't the case. I much rather have picks. This team needs all the players in the farm system they can get.

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06-04-2017, 10:10 PM
  #52
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I hope this isn't the case. I much rather have picks. This team needs all the players in the farm system they can get.
I wouldn't love it either but I think it's a big possibility.

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06-04-2017, 10:10 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by tigervixxxen View Post
Maybe Sakic already agreed to give assets for Vegas to take someone so he doesn't care who is protected.
More like Sakic gave picks to Vegas ensuring they don't take Comeau or Beauch.

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Old
06-04-2017, 10:10 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by tigervixxxen View Post
Maybe Sakic already agreed to give assets for Vegas to take someone so he doesn't care who is protected.
That would suck a lot. We dont have any quality enough players that are going to be exposed to the point we need to give up assets to protect them. And we dont have any truly awful contracts that hinder us so badly we have to get rid of them.


The only one that comes remotely close is Soderberg, and unless we're giving up like a 7th round pick for them to take him it's a terrible idea. Even a 7th I would rather keep tbh.

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06-04-2017, 10:11 PM
  #55
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I'm just saying we never even talk about this happening and it's certainly an option. It would be a very Avs thing to do.

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06-04-2017, 10:13 PM
  #56
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Buying out Beauchemin makes too much sense.

1. We have all the cap space in the world.
2. We can protect players who actually are "younger and faster."
3. From talk Beauchemin is not really the most popular guy in Colorado.
4. Give fans confidence in management to make smart decisions
5. Opens spot for young guys to develop

There are zero positives to keeping the guy on the roster.

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06-04-2017, 10:14 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by tigervixxxen View Post
I'm just saying we never even talk about this happening and it's certainly an option. It would be a very Avs thing to do.
The possibility of it makes me mad/scared

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06-04-2017, 10:15 PM
  #58
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Yeah sadly its definitely a possibility. I'm generally still a Sakic supporter(Or at least not ready to fire him unlike most others, still think he deserves his chance to run this team without Roy in his ear), but if he did something like this I would pretty quickly be changing my tune on the situation.

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06-04-2017, 10:21 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by hughdreamz View Post
Buying out Beauchemin makes too much sense.

1. We have all the cap space in the world.
2. We can protect players who actually are "younger and faster."
3. From talk Beauchemin is not really the most popular guy in Colorado.
4. Give fans confidence in management to make smart decisions
5. Opens spot for young guys to develop

There are zero positives to keeping the guy on the roster.
1. If the Avs are rebuilding, the cap space doesn't matter at all. Buying him out means nothing in this regard.

2. There's nobody worthy of being protected even if we buy him out, not right now at least. Maybe Nieto, but he's also not going to be selected by Vegas either. They'll take Pickard, Babeiro, or even Comeau before Nieto.

3. No idea where this is coming from. Would like to see a source because Beauch has always been regarded as a good leader in the dressing room on other teams and in his first year here.

4. Again, disagree here. Keeping him, and using him as a deadline trade piece at next years deadline is way more valuable to us than buying him out and getting nothing from him.

5. There will still be plenty of openings on the Defense for our young Dmen to try and earn a spot. Both Weirdo and Tyutin aren't coming back, and nor is Goldybluff. That leaves 2-3 spots open for the taking, and realistically we only have 2 Dmen(Mironov and Bigras) with good shots at taking them. Others would have to have a massive camp.

Buying him out actually doesn't make any sense at all. The hope is he is winning to waive his NMC so that we can protect additional others instead. But we dont want to just buy him out and gain nothing. A Veteran Dman like him who's been through the playoff grind multiple times is worth a lot to contending teams at the deadline. Roman Polak after all got 2 2nds. Beauch can get one at least.

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06-04-2017, 10:38 PM
  #60
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It doesn't make much sense to trade before the expansion draft unless it's a trade that has expansion draft implications (trading a player you can't protect or trading for a player you can).

I suspect most trades that are already in the works will happen after the expansion draft.

As for Bad Luck Beau, the main reason for buying him out is to not have him play hockey for Avalanche. If they can find another way to accomplish that, go for it. That means a) finding a way for him to waive his NMC and finding someone who wants him or b) having a coach that will ice box him.

I just don't see how Avs can bring him back and play him for another year with how big a disaster he was last year. He's going to be one year worse. Bringing him back just says to everyone, including the players, that improving isn't that big of a priority. Time to purge the veterans and hand the team back to the younger players. The veteran movement has been a complete disaster.


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Old
06-04-2017, 10:55 PM
  #61
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I don't take Dater's speculation as fact so we'll just have to wait and see what happens. They might keep Beauchemin around but that would be one of the more inexplicable decisions they've made recently because there's literally zero upside to having him on the team.

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06-04-2017, 11:03 PM
  #62
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Dater said two weeks ago that he expected Beauch to be bought out, so I don't know why everybody is taking his word as gospel now.

Oh right, it's because he speculated something bad, and everybody jumps on bad news like it's the last donut in the break room.

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06-04-2017, 11:56 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
1. If the Avs are rebuilding, the cap space doesn't matter at all. Buying him out means nothing in this regard.

2. There's nobody worthy of being protected even if we buy him out, not right now at least. Maybe Nieto, but he's also not going to be selected by Vegas either. They'll take Pickard, Babeiro, or even Comeau before Nieto.

3. No idea where this is coming from. Would like to see a source because Beauch has always been regarded as a good leader in the dressing room on other teams and in his first year here.

4. Again, disagree here. Keeping him, and using him as a deadline trade piece at next years deadline is way more valuable to us than buying him out and getting nothing from him.

5. There will still be plenty of openings on the Defense for our young Dmen to try and earn a spot. Both Weirdo and Tyutin aren't coming back, and nor is Goldybluff. That leaves 2-3 spots open for the taking, and realistically we only have 2 Dmen(Mironov and Bigras) with good shots at taking them. Others would have to have a massive camp.

Buying him out actually doesn't make any sense at all. The hope is he is winning to waive his NMC so that we can protect additional others instead. But we dont want to just buy him out and gain nothing. A Veteran Dman like him who's been through the playoff grind multiple times is worth a lot to contending teams at the deadline. Roman Polak after all got 2 2nds. Beauch can get one at least.
1. Yes exactly. Rebuilding. How can you rebuild when you're giving a crucial position in your line up to an old man who can't play anymore? The cap space allows us to open that up. His cap does not hurt us at all which makes it an incredibly easy decision to make.

2. Um yes there are. Andrighetto has great chemistry with Mack. Barberio is a useful third pairing D. Nieto is great for depth. Letting one of them go for a guy who has no future on your team besides this false idea of "wisdom" that has done nothing for us so far 2 years in, it horrible asset management and show complete incompetency.

3. There were reports of him screaming at practice and when game time was here he never pulled his own weight. Wish I could give a source, but from what I recall not everyone was a fan of this while he sucked even worse than the rest of the team.

4. Doubt we get anything for him or are even able to trade him. Iginla, who was still useful (he provided LA a few goals), netted us nothing in the end. Beauchemin is already at or will be at Tyutin level next year at deadline time. Nobody will pay to have him fail on their team. Plus he can reject a trade you put out there because of his clause.

5. Rather see Lindholm, Barberio, or even a decent young signing in his position. Beauchemin makes this team worse.

You can't put Roman Polak and Beauchemin in the same category at all. Polak is 6 years younger and has a lot more to offer. Beauchemin can no longer keep up with today's game. He can't play, he takes up a spot, he can easily be bought out, and you will not get anything for him in a trade come deadline next year. There is no excuse for him to still be on this team.

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Old
06-05-2017, 03:45 AM
  #64
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You cannot with a straight face tell your fans that the plan is to get younger and faster, and then bring back Francois Beauchemin.

I don't care if you gave him the NMC when he signed here. Own up to your *** damn mistake and buy him out. Get him out of here. He's horrible on the ice and whatever "leadership" he brings is negated by that fact. Why the hell would players, especially younger players, take after a guy or listen to a guy who is as bad as him? No amount of off-ice leadership makes up for horrible on-ice play.

Now, I'm going to give Sakic the benefit of the doubt here until the expansion draft. There are three scenarios I can see playing out:

1) Beauchemin waives his NMC knowing that Vegas won't select him; Avs proceed to protect EJ, Barrie, and Zadorov.
2) Beauchemin doesn't waive his NMC, but Sakic has a deal lined up prior to the ED where he trades Barrie.
3) Beauchemin doesn't waive his NMC, Sakic does nothing, Zadorov is claimed by Vegas.

Option 3 is highly, highly unlikely but I'm not going to call it impossible. Not until we actually get to the expansion draft lol. The paranoia is real.

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06-05-2017, 03:59 AM
  #65
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Old
06-05-2017, 04:04 AM
  #66
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I highly doubt we'll lose Zads to the ED. That would make the ROR deal from "good" to "horrible".

You rather go the 8 players route (FB, Zads, EJ, Barrie, Dutchy, Rants, Landy, MacK) then.

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06-05-2017, 04:17 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hughdreamz View Post
Buying out Beauchemin makes too much sense.

1. We have all the cap space in the world.
2. We can protect players who actually are "younger and faster."
3. From talk Beauchemin is not really the most popular guy in Colorado.
4. Give fans confidence in management to make smart decisions
5. Opens spot for young guys to develop

There are zero positives to keeping the guy on the roster.
1. We don't get any cap space back for Beauchemin. 35+ contract/
2. There is no one else worth protecting unless we bring someone in through trade
3. First I'm hearing about it. I guess it depends on why he isn't popular.
4. It wouldn't give me any confidence. It's wasting $3m for nothing.
5. That's a valid point.

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Old
06-05-2017, 06:18 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by CB Joe View Post
1. We don't get any cap space back for Beauchemin. 35+ contract/
2. There is no one else worth protecting unless we bring someone in through trade
3. First I'm hearing about it. I guess it depends on why he isn't popular.
4. It wouldn't give me any confidence. It's wasting $3m for nothing.
5. That's a valid point.
1. I think the point is that the cap space is meaningless...we have plenty of room to eat his cap hit, plus the replacement player (an ELC)
2. Neito, Andrighetto, Barberio are all possiblities that could use protection. See below for options.
3. It has been a weak rumor for a while...him mouthing off at practice but still be crap in games does not go over well, etc. Not sure if there has ever been any confirmation on it though.
4. It is saving $1.5M total, and shifts another $1.5M to next years budget (real money, not cap hit). Makes it slightly easier to balance the books this year, when it is expected that attendance will be worst ever in the Can. The smart part that would engender confidence is entirely dependent on personal opinion though. For me, it would be a good sign, YMMV.
5. Kids getting playing time is a good thing, as is not having FB anchoring the team (and not in the good kind of anchoring).


If they do not buy out FB (and he does not waive), then they have to protect EJ, TB4, Zads and FB on D, and MacK, Duchene, and Landy on F...and they have one more slot...so only one of Barbs, Andy, Neito, Soda, Colborne, Grigs, Comeau, Wierdo, Seimens or Gelinas. And while I agree that most of those would be no great loss, I would rather the selection be even skimpier.

Buying FB out, or him waiving, allows them to protect at least one more off that list. So Barbs AND Andy. Or if they are willing to risk Barbs, then they can protect Andy, Neito, Grigs, and Soda (sub others for Grigs and/or Soda per your own preference).

If they have to protect FB, then they are going to lose either Picks, Barbs/Andy (whichever they don't protect), or Neito. Long shot on any of the others IMO. If they dont have to protect him, then it becomes Picks, Barbs or Colborne/Comeau in a 7/3 setup, or Picks or Neito if they go any8. May not be that big a deal....but in combination with the rest of the reasons, it adds up to the right move IMO.

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Old
06-05-2017, 06:32 AM
  #69
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lol at anyone who thinks we can flip someone at the deadline. We could be 0-60 next year and sakic would be saying he didn't move anyone at the deadline because he still likes the group.

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06-05-2017, 06:35 AM
  #70
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There is no way they don't protect Z. They are not going to protect 3 more meh to ok forwards at the expense of him. I don't think even they can stoop to those levels of stupidity. If they lose Z in the expansion draft then the NHL needs to take the keys away from them.

To me there's 3 scenarios

1. Beauch is going to waive
2. Sakic has a deal with Vegas brewing
3. Vet respect

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06-05-2017, 06:36 AM
  #71
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lol at anyone who thinks we can flip someone at the deadline. We could be 0-60 next year and sakic would be saying he didn't move anyone at the deadline because he still likes the group.
Or on an 80 point pace and in a playoff chase!

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06-05-2017, 06:41 AM
  #72
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I don't like the sounds of paying a premium to specifically take someone. Unless it's something minor like we'll give you Grigorenko for free if you take Soderberg.

Don't rule out Blake Comeau as an expansion target for Vegas. Yeah he's pretty bad most of the time, but he's a vet known as a big leader who has scored 25 goals in the NHL. He potted 36 points the season before last (42 point pace the season before that) and is on an expiring contract which if you're any other GM in the NHL sees that as a potential deadline asset if you're out of the race.

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06-05-2017, 06:48 AM
  #73
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lol at anyone who thinks we can flip someone at the deadline. We could be 0-60 next year and sakic would be saying he didn't move anyone at the deadline because he still likes the group.
Who exactly did you think would get moved out at the deadline last year?

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06-05-2017, 07:18 AM
  #74
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What do you mean "as much"? It's 100% AVS fault, 0% Beauchemin's. Beauchemin didn't cheat, they offered him that contract and ice time. It's not up to him to sacrifice himself for the last year of possibly his last contract.

If he's not good, it's Bednar's reponsibility to not play him and that's it.
So Beauchemin owns no responsibility in fulfilling his contract? How about the FACT that these veteran players make zero extra effort to keep themselves in top form as they age? It's one of the main reasons I hate the fact that all contracts in the NHL are guaranteed. I've seen 45 year old males out perform guys in their 20s physically in the Army because they work their ***** off as they get older.

And you are not going to tell me that years in the Army as an infantry soldier are easier than being an NHL player. There is a similarity in that when you are not doing your job your job is to train to do your job however, and both rely on physical endurance as a foundation for the job.

Guys like Iginla and Beauchemin fall off a ****ing cliff because they don't work hard enough in the off season and they are making millions of dollars and have no other work related responsibility than keeping themselves in game shape. If it wasn't such a sharp decline I'd feel differently, but especially in FB's case he went from being arguably our best defender one year to being our worst the next.

Beauchemin has to own the responsibility for not keeping himself at a level necessary to fulfill his contract in good faith. It's not even like he is in a situation like Stuart where a back injury is making it difficult either.

Guys like Beauchemin and Iginla are pathetic in my mind, as they ride off of the coat tails of their careers in their twilight and use it as an excuse to coast down the stretch. It's sad and honestly degrades the level of respect they deserve. Guys like Sakic, Forsberg and Roy stopped playing before embarrassing themselves, and that's just another thing that sets them apart.


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Old
06-05-2017, 07:25 AM
  #75
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So according to Pierre, Vegas has a deal in place where they receive a pick with a cap dump who has some kind of name value and should be a decent player. I wonder who it is.

Beauchemin obviously.

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