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Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2016-17 Part XXII

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Old
06-05-2017, 07:51 AM
  #76
Cousin Eddie
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Originally Posted by UncleRisto View Post
So according to Pierre, Vegas has a deal in place where they receive a pick with a cap dump who has some kind of name value and should be a decent player. I wonder who it is.

Beauchemin obviously.
I don't understand who this could even be. What player is really good, but his contract is so bad that he requires a pick to take on? Phaneuf? Hossa? Perry? Ryan?

FTR I don't think any of those guys are "really good" but Pierre probably does.

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06-05-2017, 07:53 AM
  #77
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Yeah no question Pierre is overselling this guy's level of play.

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06-05-2017, 07:54 AM
  #78
Cousin Eddie
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Yeah no question Pierre is overselling this guy's level of play.
Lol watch it be Dustin Brown or Callahan.

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06-05-2017, 07:55 AM
  #79
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Lol watch it be Dustin Brown or Callahan.
Or Gaborik.

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06-05-2017, 08:02 AM
  #80
Cousin Eddie
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Elias Lindholm + Haydn Fleury + 12th overall for Duchene

Too much from Carolina? It's a deal I'd do in a hurry (assuming top level D kiddos like Hanifin/Chabot/Sergachev aren't options). Lindholm will be a fine 2C to play behind Mackinnon. He can also shift to wing if Jost proves to be a better option. Lindholm played really well with Landy in the WC this year too.

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06-05-2017, 08:09 AM
  #81
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One scenario I haven't seen suggested for not buying out Beauchemin is Sakic has a trade lined up which moves a guy they would have to protect, like Duchene.

It means that the Avs would be getting back a player who is ineligible for the expansion draft though. Noah Hanifin is exempt for example... And the Canes are actually set up really well before the expansion draft. They will for sure go the 7-3-1 route, and could add another forward worth protecting.

Now the Avs protect: MacKinnon, Landeskog, EJ, Barrie, Zadorov, Beauchemin (NMC), Andrighetto, and one of Comeau/Nieto/Barberio.

Just food for thought.

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06-05-2017, 08:13 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleRisto View Post
So according to Pierre, Vegas has a deal in place where they receive a pick with a cap dump who has some kind of name value and should be a decent player. I wonder who it is.

Beauchemin obviously.
I think it's supposed to be Bobby Ryan

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06-05-2017, 08:23 AM
  #83
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I think it's supposed to be Bobby Ryan
Yeah, I suppose. Pick would be very late in the round too.

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06-05-2017, 08:31 AM
  #84
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What do you mean "as much"? It's 100% AVS fault, 0% Beauchemin's. Beauchemin didn't cheat, they offered him that contract and ice time. It's not up to him to sacrifice himself for the last year of possibly his last contract.

If he's not good, it's Bednar's reponsibility to not play him and that's it.
Beauchemin needs to take responsibility for his play at some point. I am fully capable of blaming Bednar for being an idiot with how much he plays him and capable of blaming Beauchemin for playing like an idiot.

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06-05-2017, 08:39 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
Elias Lindholm + Haydn Fleury + 12th overall for Duchene

Too much from Carolina? It's a deal I'd do in a hurry (assuming top level D kiddos like Hanifin/Chabot/Sergachev aren't options). Lindholm will be a fine 2C to play behind Mackinnon. He can also shift to wing if Jost proves to be a better option. Lindholm played really well with Landy in the WC this year too.
I admire your guts, Kento. You are consistently on one of the forums deemed "most like a cesspool" (Trade forum), and submitted what I thought was a fair offer (you went above this one and put it at Duchene at 50% retained)--and you of course got people laughing in response.

So Duchene at 3M for the next two years (and only the next two years--remember, Carolina fans have this complex where they don't believe ANYONE will re-sign with them) isn't worth what you just put up? Ridiculous (them, not you).

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06-05-2017, 08:39 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
One scenario I haven't seen suggested for not buying out Beauchemin is Sakic has a trade lined up which moves a guy they would have to protect, like Duchene.

It means that the Avs would be getting back a player who is ineligible for the expansion draft though. Noah Hanifin is exempt for example... And the Canes are actually set up really well before the expansion draft. They will for sure go the 7-3-1 route, and could add another forward worth protecting.

Now the Avs protect: MacKinnon, Landeskog, EJ, Barrie, Zadorov, Beauchemin (NMC), Andrighetto, and one of Comeau/Nieto/Barberio.

Just food for thought.
I was thinking this too

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06-05-2017, 09:10 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
Elias Lindholm + Haydn Fleury + 12th overall for Duchene

Too much from Carolina? It's a deal I'd do in a hurry (assuming top level D kiddos like Hanifin/Chabot/Sergachev aren't options). Lindholm will be a fine 2C to play behind Mackinnon. He can also shift to wing if Jost proves to be a better option. Lindholm played really well with Landy in the WC this year too.
Not sure Fleury tops out as more than a solid top 4 defender but I do like Lindholm more than many and the thought of him and Landy teaming on an all-weather second line with a defensive conscious is appealing.

The thing with every single fan base right now in any kind of offer is they just get hung up on using last years stats to prove a point.

"The gap between Player X and Duchene is in no way a top prospect and pick, look at their stats this season!!!" is the reoccurring theme. People just underestimate how dysfunctional this team and this offense was last year. Fortunately, I think most of the insider info seems to slant that executives for other teams are aware of the special kind of suck the Avs were and will value are top players accordingly and not just at face value of basic stats. That's not to say Sakic will get what he wants in the end but having the peanut gallery on the trade forum tell us Duchene is a washed up 40 point player is pretty irrelevant. No doubt when he gets dealt for a solid package and then puts up 30 goals and 70 points next year and re-signs long term on his new club we will be told what idiots we were for dealing him.

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Old
06-05-2017, 09:20 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by UncleRisto View Post
Yeah, I suppose. Pick would be very late in the round too.
5 more years at 7.25M per is a hell of a commitment.

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06-05-2017, 09:28 AM
  #89
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Maybe Sakic thinks he can get something out of beauvh at the deadline that's more valuable than barbeiro?


Maybe the deal with Carolina (if that is the thought) is adding someone like grigorenko, who has some value still and needs a change.

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06-05-2017, 09:33 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by lonelybadger View Post
Maybe Sakic thinks he can get something out of beauvh at the deadline that's more valuable than barbeiro?


Maybe the deal with Carolina (if that is the thought) is adding someone like grigorenko, who has some value still and needs a change.
I proposed Duchene(50% retained) + Grigorenko + Butcher for E Lindholm +12th overall + D prospect not named Hanifin on the main boards and got absolutely roasted for it.

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06-05-2017, 09:36 AM
  #91
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Carolina fans are nuts. If their management shares that viewpoint then I'm not expecting a trade with Carolina. They've got serious 'my daddy ran out on me' issues... I wouldn't even expect a ROR type return from them right now, hopefully it's just HF fans being crazy HF fans because I've seen TSN, NHL, all kinds of articles from NHL analysis that think a Duchene/Hanifin swap works for both teams but mention that on here and you're all of a sudden a lunatic.

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06-05-2017, 09:43 AM
  #92
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The Hurricanes will refuse to draft a player at #12 because he only has a guaranteed 7-year term.

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06-05-2017, 09:48 AM
  #93
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At this point there are probably some Hurricanes fans who wouldn't deal Brock McGinn for Duchene because McGinn is an RFA

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06-05-2017, 09:51 AM
  #94
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It seems like Canes fans think that everyone's just going to run away as soon as their contract ends, and that they're not going to be anywhere near the playoffs for years to come. In that context it makes sense not to want Duchene in their team, even if he would fill their largest need and is possibly the best player available to do it.

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06-05-2017, 09:53 AM
  #95
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One of my favorite comments was lindholm scored as much as duchene without nearly as good linemates. Just shows they dont pay attention

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06-05-2017, 09:53 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Vaslof View Post
It seems like Canes fans think that everyone's just going to run away as soon as their contract ends, and that they're not going to be anywhere near the playoffs for years to come. In that context it makes sense not to want Duchene in their team, even if he would fill their largest need and is possibly the best player available to do it.
Word on the street is that unless your last name is Staal, nobody wants to play in Carolina.

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06-05-2017, 09:57 AM
  #97
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Every fan base (including ours) plays the "for only x years of y player" card. But I don't think GM's are nearly as conservative as the fans are. In the end, players almost always re-sign if they're presented with a reasonable offer. With all the complaining about such a boring July 1, it's crazy people don't understand this. But everybody wants all-reward with no risk. Canes fans do tend to take it to the extremes though.

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06-05-2017, 10:01 AM
  #98
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I like Elias Lindholm. Like, I like him a lot. I understand why they wouldn't want to trade him. But he isn't as good as Matt Duchene. In fact at this point, he isn't close.

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06-05-2017, 10:01 AM
  #99
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1. Yes exactly. Rebuilding. How can you rebuild when you're giving a crucial position in your line up to an old man who can't play anymore? The cap space allows us to open that up. His cap does not hurt us at all which makes it an incredibly easy decision to make.

2. Um yes there are. Andrighetto has great chemistry with Mack. Barberio is a useful third pairing D. Nieto is great for depth. Letting one of them go for a guy who has no future on your team besides this false idea of "wisdom" that has done nothing for us so far 2 years in, it horrible asset management and show complete incompetency.

3. There were reports of him screaming at practice and when game time was here he never pulled his own weight. Wish I could give a source, but from what I recall not everyone was a fan of this while he sucked even worse than the rest of the team.

4. Doubt we get anything for him or are even able to trade him. Iginla, who was still useful (he provided LA a few goals), netted us nothing in the end. Beauchemin is already at or will be at Tyutin level next year at deadline time. Nobody will pay to have him fail on their team. Plus he can reject a trade you put out there because of his clause.

5. Rather see Lindholm, Barberio, or even a decent young signing in his position. Beauchemin makes this team worse.

You can't put Roman Polak and Beauchemin in the same category at all. Polak is 6 years younger and has a lot more to offer. Beauchemin can no longer keep up with today's game. He can't play, he takes up a spot, he can easily be bought out, and you will not get anything for him in a trade come deadline next year. There is no excuse for him to still be on this team.
1. Beauch signed a 35+ contract so there's no actual cap savings by buying him out. It's a 4.5 cap hit regardless of whether he's with the team or not.

2. Pro athletes are hyper competitive and little blowups happen all the time. Beauch has been regarded as a very good leader and a guy who sacrifices his body his entire career. I bet there was a ton of blowups between teammates last year as there should be on a fire tire team like the AVs.

He led all Avs players in blocked shots by a wide margin and when proud vets like him (or Iggy) see so many guys afraid to take a hit or block a shot like so many soft guys on the Avs rosters no wonders he's ticked off.

3. The problem isn't Beauch. The problem is him playing the hardest minutes on a terrible team when he should be slotted as a #5 type Dman at this point in his career. If it wasn't him getting badly exposed it would have been someone else. If he was playing against top lines and a few less minutes a night he'd absolutely look a heck of a lot better.

Polak was played like the # 5 D prior to be traded to the Sharks last season. Trust me when I say he's only a depth Dman. But he was actually played like one. Unlike Beauch because somebody had to be overplayed on the tire fire that was the Avs last year.

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06-05-2017, 10:04 AM
  #100
dahrougem2
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Every fan base (including ours) plays the "for only x years of y player" card. But I don't think GM's are nearly as conservative as the fans are. In the end, players almost always re-sign if they're presented with a reasonable offer. With all the complaining about such a boring July 1, it's crazy people don't understand this. But everybody wants all-reward with no risk. Canes fans do tend to take it to the extremes though.
Seriously, this can't be stated enough. How many times do we see players actually spurn their own team before July 1st?

The last big-name players I can think of to do it are Parise and Suter in 2012.

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