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The 2017 NHL Entry Draft: Part V

View Poll Results: 61.2% of you voted for Hieskanen. Do you expect Avs to draft a defender that high?
Yes, without a doubt. 13 14.13%
Yes, but I do have concerns. 22 23.91%
Yes, but I'm fine with any prospect regardless of position. 13 14.13%
No, but I'm fine with any prospect regardless of position. 24 26.09%
No, but Avs will be making the wrong choice. 20 21.74%
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-05-2017, 02:31 PM
  #76
Balthazar
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
I wouldn't call Mittlestadt a physical project... he just needs taught what to do and how it will help him. By the time he leaves college, he will be fine. Lest we forget Doughty...

Mittlestadt isn't the greatest fit here, but I believe he will be the best player out of this draft. I'd be thrilled if he was selected by the Avs.
What kind of soon-to-be-exposed-to-the-ED defensemen package would the Wild give up for homeboy Mittlestadt at #4? Hmm...

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06-05-2017, 02:33 PM
  #77
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Anybody else going to be really disappointed if we take glass? I think hes a very solid player but just doesnt have to offensive talent id want with a 4th pick. Id prefer tippett over him if they decided not to take vilardi, heiskanen or mittelstadt
Quite the opposite in fact.

I'd be very upset if they took Tippett at #4. Probably the player I want least.

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06-05-2017, 02:37 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Pacman33 View Post
Anybody else going to be really disappointed if we take glass? I think hes a very solid player but just doesnt have to offensive talent id want with a 4th pick. Id prefer tippett over him if they decided not to take vilardi, heiskanen or mittelstadt
Not really. Right now he looks like he's probably going to be more of a strong utility 2C who can play in all situations, but he's been trending upwards fast, and you can't necessarily assume that he's not going to continue that path. I do see some good offensive upside in him, too, especially as a playmaker.

Yes, we have Jost already who fits that profile, but Glass gives us a lot of flexibility in the top six, as well as filling a dire need for two-way players. I wouldn't be upset if we picked him, although I have him 5th on my board.

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06-05-2017, 02:39 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
Quite the opposite in fact.

I'd be very upset if they took Tippett at #4. Probably the player I want least.
Dont get me wrong, im not advocating for tippett but at least he brings much needed ability to score. I dont really think glass has a huge ceiling. My top 5 in no particular order are nico, patrick, vilardi, heiskanen and mittelstadt. So us being 4th id be disappointed with anyone outside them. Not that glass isnt a good prospect, just dont think he is worth it at 4

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06-05-2017, 02:40 PM
  #80
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I prefer Vilardi but no I wouldn't mind Glass at all. I think his offensive upside is pretty good too. He can score goals and he has a wicked backhand. He's not as physical as he needs to be but he's got a good frame, hopefully he grows into it. I think I prefer Heiskanen to Mittlestadt at this point, probably Makar too. I'd be pounding the table for Tippett at 10, I just don't think he's the type you draft at 4.

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06-05-2017, 02:45 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by tigervixxxen View Post
I prefer Vilardi but no I wouldn't mind Glass at all. I think his offensive upside is pretty good too. He can score goals and he has a wicked backhand. He's not as physical as he needs to be but he's got a good frame, hopefully he grows into it. I think I prefer Heiskanen to Mittlestadt at this point, probably Makar too. I'd be pounding the table for Tippett at 10, I just don't think he's the type you draft at 4.
Where would glass rank for you compared to mittlestadt, makar and heiskanen

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06-05-2017, 02:50 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Pacman33 View Post
Anybody else going to be really disappointed if we take glass? I think hes a very solid player but just doesnt have to offensive talent id want with a 4th pick. Id prefer tippett over him if they decided not to take vilardi, heiskanen or mittelstadt
Glass has a very high upside to go along with his high floor. He put up better numbers than Vilardi+Tippett in a tougher league to score in on a worse team. The biggest mistake the Avs could make is taking Mittelstadt or Liljegren

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06-05-2017, 02:55 PM
  #83
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Canucks' board is off the Mittlestadt train and soured on Glass too. They are all on the Pettersson train now.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=902

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06-05-2017, 02:59 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Pacman33 View Post
Where would glass rank for you compared to mittlestadt, makar and heiskanen
Right now I'm probably

Vilardi
Glass
Heiskanen/Makar
Mittlestadt/Pettersson
Valimaki/Tippett

That's taking the Avs into account. If I was just going on pure prospect rank I might put Makar and Mittlestadt a touch higher.

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06-05-2017, 03:06 PM
  #85
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I have:

1) Patrick
2) Hischier
3) Vilardi
4) Heiskanen
5) Glass
6) Mittelstadt
7) Pettersson
8) Valimaki
9) Tippett
10) Liljegren

Just an opinion ranking, based on who I like the most.

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06-05-2017, 03:09 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
Wow I didn't realize Foote was one of the better kids tested at the agility/lateral test at the combine. That's impressive for a kid 6'4, 214 lbs. He also did really well in the V02MAX. Foote's biggest concern is his skating but this gives a pretty good indication that it's likely power and not foot speed which is much easier to work on.

I've compared Foote to a slightly worse skating, but much more skilled version of Brandon Carlo based on what I've seen come out of the W the last few years. If he improves that straight line skating he's going to be a damn good defenseman.
Yep. He showed up in a lot of the top25 lists. Valimaki was in like every single one except one or two.

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06-05-2017, 03:26 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by raistlin76 View Post
Do we have Zads signed longterm? No! Is he linked with KHL teams? Yes! We even don't know if he is here next year. Hope he is but we won't know until he signs. Are we sure Meloche will be top4 or at least top6 d-man in NHL? No, he is still prospect/project however you called it. Of course we hope he will be NHLer sooner than later but we also thought Siemens will be NHLer. Unfortunately looks like he won't. Does Bigras already has two or three concussions? Yes! Are we sure he will be in NHL next season? No! He looks like injury-prone guy, whos career stalled at least a bit probably because of health problems. Why draft not one but two d-men who could be in NHL in next 2-4 years? Because we are very, very weak on defense and we don't have some slum dunk defensive prospects who are sure to be in NHL soon.
Do we know Foote will ever be an NHLer? No! He is still just a prospect/project however you call it...

This logic is just so fallacious. Either we have some trust in this organizations ability to develop defensive prospect or we don't. You can't distrust them with Meloche and Zads, but then turn around and trust them with Foote/Valimaki...who are even further away and so would require more work from the same staff who can't be trusted with the already in the NHL Zadorov, or the year away Meloche. Either they're so incompetent that trusting them with any valuable picks is pointless, or they're competent enough for us to have some trust in the prospects in the pipeline.

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06-05-2017, 03:31 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
He will be a NHL player, and likely a solid one. I'd say him being a middle paring guy is fairly safe. I just don't see enough progress or ability in those areas to think he can be a #1 sort. I believe that if he does become a #2 level, he will still be a very frustrating player.
I guess we just see the kid completely differently. IMO either he can't ever put it together and makes it as a bottom pairing guy on his tools alone, or he puts it together and becomes a legit top pairing guy...who makes the odd frustrating/unnecessarily-risky play and isn't dominant enough defensively to be a true franchise #1 but like EJ can be the #1 on a successful team with a legit supporting cast.

But I really like his creativity with the puck, even if part of it is being so much bigger/faster/more-skilled that he can get away with stuff that most guys he's playing against can't.


Last edited by cgf: 06-05-2017 at 04:32 PM.
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06-05-2017, 04:14 PM
  #89
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I still like Brannstrom at #32 eh...is Makar really a full draft round better than the Swedish dynamo? I know Makar is gaining some steam as a potential target at #4 but wonder if Vilardi+Brannstrom or even Heiskine+Brannstrom is possible?

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06-05-2017, 04:26 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Foppa View Post
I still like Brannstrom at #32 eh...is Makar really a full draft round better than the Swedish dynamo? I know Makar is gaining some steam as a potential target at #4 but wonder if Vilardi+Brannstrom or even Heiskine+Brannstrom is possible?
I like Brannstrom a lot too. He's got a similar offensive skillset to Makar, but none of the questions about his competition levels, given his tournament performances and long stint in the SHL. He's tiny, which will limit his ultimate upside, but he's got a good defensive stick and very strong instincts. Middle pair dynamic PPQB if all goes right, though. If he was even 5'11 I think he could be the first D gone this year.

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06-05-2017, 04:27 PM
  #91
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I wouldn't want Makar at 4... simply too much risk in that pick. 8-10-12... sure why not.

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06-05-2017, 04:29 PM
  #92
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Devils told Hischier they'll make him the 1stOA pick but he has to do something first.

Listen to Button...


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06-05-2017, 04:31 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Do we know Foote will ever be an NHLer? No! He is still just a prospect/project however you call it...

This logic is just so fallacious. Either we have some trust in this organizations ability to develop defensive prospect or we don't. You can't distrust them with Meloche and Zads, but then turn around and trust them with Foote/Valimaki...who are even further away and so would require more work from the same staff who can't be trusted with the already in the NHL Zadorov, or the year away Meloche. Either they're so incompetent that trusting them with any valuable picks is pointless, or they're competent enough for us to have some trust in the prospects in the pipeline.
Ive been kinda bringing this up. Its not to say just throw up our hands and say nobody will ever develop but I think it's important to consider what type of development a kid is going to need and if he's going to get it here. I've been feeling that anyone who needs offensive help just isn't a good fit here at all. I like two-way guys on both sides myself and have bought into the whole well if they don't reach their ceiling they at least have a floor to fall back on. Well not here, there is no fallback but they can still contribute in the NHL here apparently. So I think they need to target guys with a certain skill level is how I'm feeling. I'm not going all the way and saying only draft those dangle heroes but I think anyone we take is going to need to meet a certain offensive standard already. If it's a Mikko level prospect where they only need a touch of seasoning then I'm not as worried but someone that's a good 3-4 years away then I am concerned that they'll be able to grow their game enough here.

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06-05-2017, 05:18 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Do we know Foote will ever be an NHLer? No! He is still just a prospect/project however you call it...

This logic is just so fallacious. Either we have some trust in this organizations ability to develop defensive prospect or we don't. You can't distrust them with Meloche and Zads, but then turn around and trust them with Foote/Valimaki...who are even further away and so would require more work from the same staff who can't be trusted with the already in the NHL Zadorov, or the year away Meloche. Either they're so incompetent that trusting them with any valuable picks is pointless, or they're competent enough for us to have some trust in the prospects in the pipeline.
I disagree with this. It's precisely that I don't trust the prospects to develop that I would want more defensemen. I'm not experienced in developement or prospects, but I still think developement in a player rests with the player and their will to improve more than an organization's efforts. Basically, I see all prospects as lottery tickets. I will never buy a lottery ticket and just assume it's a winner.

You just want to pencil in Bigras and Meloche as 20+ min/game defensemen when they are years away from that at best. In fact, you seem to trust these kids in these roles more than proven vets in Johnson and Barrie. At this point, I'll be impressed if Bigras even plays another NHL game, let alone sticks as a top 4 defender. This goes especially so for Meloche. They were second round picks. I know that doesn't mean much, but they are still long shots in the grand scheme of things. I will never pencil in a lineup further than a month or two away, and I will never pencil in a prospect drafted out of the top 2 or so. Yeah I may be excited to see a prospect develop (Jost fits here) but I will never assume they will stick in the NHL in an important role.

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06-05-2017, 05:28 PM
  #95
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I disagree with this. It's precisely that I don't trust the prospects to develop that I would want more defensemen. I'm not experienced in developement or prospects, but I still think developement in a player rests with the player and their will to improve more than an organization's efforts. Basically, I see all prospects as lottery tickets. I will never buy a lottery ticket and just assume it's a winner.

You just want to pencil in Bigras and Meloche as 20+ min/game defensemen when they are years away from that at best. In fact, you seem to trust these kids in these roles more than proven vets in Johnson and Barrie. At this point, I'll be impressed if Bigras even plays another NHL game, let alone sticks as a top 4 defender. This goes especially so for Meloche. They were second round picks. I know that doesn't mean much, but they are still long shots in the grand scheme of things. I will never pencil in a lineup further than a month or two away, and I will never pencil in a prospect drafted out of the top 2 or so. Yeah I may be excited to see a prospect develop (Jost fits here) but I will never assume they will stick in the NHL in an important role.
I think you're underrating 2nd round picks by a lot. A good org should hit on at least 50% of those, they're not long shots by any means. Falling to he 2nd actually usually means they have holes in their games, which is where development comes in. Obviously, some of that is incumbent on the prospect, but good development is half the battle to teach them good habits.

To TV: Your concerns are not unreasonable with regards to development, but I'd like to give the current group of prospects more time before I start to despair. We've seen guys like Nantel, Lindholm, and Boikov succeed here, and Morrison is a prospect who I think improved a lot last year as well. All is not lost yet, and I think people are passing judgement far too hastily in this regard. Bigras is particular is way, way too early to call him a bust.

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06-05-2017, 05:31 PM
  #96
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On drafting vs development... it is a chicken/egg situation. Is it the Avs can't identify talent, or it is they can't develop? All the development in the world won't help without talent. All the talent can still somewhat succeed without development. For the Avs it is probably a bit of both... but I do lean towards the scouts just sucking.

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06-05-2017, 05:37 PM
  #97
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If the rumor of Dallas willing to trade down are true, it would be worth it too me to ensure Miro Heiskanen.

Plus I think any team interested in him feels like they'd have to be at #3 to grab him.

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06-05-2017, 05:43 PM
  #98
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If the rumor of Dallas willing to trade down are true, it would be worth it too me to ensure Miro Heiskanen.

Plus I think any team interested in him feels like they'd have to be at #3 to grab him.
Absolutely do not give up assets to move from #3 to #4.

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06-05-2017, 05:45 PM
  #99
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Moving up one spot in the round always struck me as silly. If the team at 3 doesn't want the guy you want, just let them pick him and get your guy one spot later. And if both teams really want the same guy, it costs so much to move up that one spot that it's rarely worth it.

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06-05-2017, 05:53 PM
  #100
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The more I watch Scooter Brickey, the more I'm sold. If some team goes off the board in the 3rd or 4th to snag this kid, they are going to look like geniuses in five years.


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