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Keep Enstrom or not [Enstrom waived NMC for XD]

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Old
06-07-2017, 08:30 AM
  #26
cheswick
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Buy him out and replace him with whom? Team would be worse with whoever the jets would fill his spot with.

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06-07-2017, 08:34 AM
  #27
SCP Guy
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Only way Enstrom waives IMO is if you give him an extension as a bonus for waiving.....
Even then he may just want to hit UFA if the offer is not an obvious over payment.

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06-07-2017, 08:40 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
Buy him out and replace him with whom? Team would be worse with whoever the jets would fill his spot with.

Worse on paper maybe. Having him in the lineup has never translated into wins. With Enstrom gone Chevy might actually be forced to do something for once!

I wouldn't buy Toby out, but he should be shopped hard pre-XD. The return doesn't matter, any capspace gained would be an asset in and of itself.

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06-07-2017, 08:49 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by AWSAA View Post
Worse on paper maybe. Having him in the lineup has never translated into wins. With Enstrom gone Chevy might actually be forced to do something for once!

I wouldn't buy Toby out, but he should be shopped hard pre-XD. The return doesn't matter, any capspace gained would be an asset in and of itself.
So how do you get him to waive his NMC so you can shop him hard?

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06-07-2017, 08:51 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by AWSAA View Post
Worse on paper maybe. Having him in the lineup has never translated into wins. With Enstrom gone Chevy might actually be forced to do something for once!

I wouldn't buy Toby out, but he should be shopped hard pre-XD. The return doesn't matter, any capspace gained would be an asset in and of itself.
Anyone who trades for Enstrom would have to protect him. There won't be huge dmand pre XD

Enstrom is extremely unlikely to allow himself to be "shopped" Even if he somehow agrees to waive, it is likely only to a select few teams like other NMC trades in the past.

Very low probability this is the outcome.

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Old
06-07-2017, 08:52 AM
  #31
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I am assuming a deal gets worked out with LV where we don't have to buy out Enstrom and get to keep Lowry and Perreault.

LV gets another unprotected forward and a draft pick sweetener.
This seems most likely.

Protect Enstrom and Perreault. Expose Lowry/Copp/Dano/Armia.

Vegas either gets a low pick (4th or 5th) to stay away from Lowry in the worst case.

Wouldn't be crazy to think McPhee would actually want Dano more than Lowry anyway. Looking at the projected available lists, offense is going to be hard to come by for them. If I was him, I'd be going after young guys with scoring upside who are buried behind more established players: the kind who could break out with the increased ice time they'll get in Vegas.

I wouldn't be surprised if he and Chevy have already had a frank conversation about who McPhee will be taking out of those 4 young forwards.

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06-07-2017, 09:01 AM
  #32
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Vegas isn't going to select Enstrom. Best case scenario they could turn around and flip him for a 3rd or 4th. There's not much room to grow his value by holding on until the TD. In which case they'd have to sit better/younger D for 60 games. Not going to happen.

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06-07-2017, 09:06 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by AWSAA View Post
Vegas isn't going to select Enstrom. Best case scenario they could turn around and flip him for a 3rd or 4th. There's not much room to grow his value by holding on until the TD. In which case they'd have to sit better/younger D for 60 games. Not going to happen.
Nobody knows what Vegas will do except McPhee. There is certainly a chance Enstrom gets selected if he waives (I don't think he will waive BTW)

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06-07-2017, 09:39 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by mcpw View Post
If the Jets protect Lowry and not Perreault, heads need to roll if we ever want to win anything. That's on about the same level as protecting Hutchinson over Hellebuyck.
Couldn't disagree more.

1. Lowry is a young, big, physical centre who often earns the praise of opponents and opposing coaching staffs. he's just about to hit his prime, he is fairly cheap and we don't exactly have a ton of 3rd line Centers in our system.
2. We have several prospects who could replace Perreault and possibly eclipse him.
3. Over and over and over the "experts" say you draft/keep the centre over the winger, every time.


Not sure what your on about mate, but it doesn't pass the smell test.


Last edited by Skidooboy; 06-07-2017 at 09:45 AM.. Reason: spellering ;-)
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06-07-2017, 10:00 AM
  #35
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4 years of perreault or 6 years of lowry is worth more than 1 year of a 32 year old 3rd pairing pending ufa dman. He may retire for all we know. Not worth the risk. Buff myers morrissey and trouba are all playing ahead of him. Not that hard to replace 12 minutes a game. Won't get taken anyways if he waives.

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06-07-2017, 10:04 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by ffh View Post
4 years of perreault or 6 years of lowry is worth more than 1 year of a 32 year old 3rd pairing pending ufa dman. He may retire for all we know. Not worth the risk. Buff myers morrissey and trouba are all playing ahead of him. Not that hard to replace 12 minutes a game. Won't get taken anyways if he waives.
He won't waive

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06-07-2017, 10:08 AM
  #37
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watch out for that door on the way out timbits

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06-07-2017, 10:12 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
He won't waive
You don't know that. [mod]


Last edited by YWGinYYZ; 06-07-2017 at 11:26 AM.. Reason: natd.
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Old
06-07-2017, 10:26 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
https://jetsnation.ca/2017/05/25/pil...rom-2016-2017/

There's a good chance he's still the 4th best defender on the team next year...
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Originally Posted by mcpw View Post
Buying out Enstrom all but guarantees we'll see a lot of games with Stuart, Chiarot, Melchiori in the lineup.

The right move is to keep Enstrom and sign a defenseman who's better than Stuart, Chiarot, Melchiori. Actually, make that two.
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
This, and this. Is he declining? Probably, but he's still better than our other options, and he's only got one year left on his contract. He's unlikely to waive his NMC anyway, even if you did want to ditch him.
This, this and this.

Only complications are the XD and his pending UFA status. I would ask him to waive and take the chance that LV takes someone else. No side deal to protect him. I don't believe TNSE will do that though.

I'm also leaning toward exposing Myers because of his health, or lack of it. That would make asking Toby to waive unnecessary.

If we can acquire a 2LHD better than Toby I would look to extending him, 2x2.5 to play 3rd pair. If we can't acquire that 2LD it becomes more imperative that we retain Toby. Maybe we have to pay a little more to ensure getting him. Still no more than 2 years though. And no NTC/NMC's.

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06-07-2017, 10:26 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by AWSAA View Post
You don't know that. [mod]
What's in it for Toby to waive? And don't say help that team that's not how it works


Last edited by YWGinYYZ; 06-07-2017 at 11:27 AM.. Reason: QEP
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06-07-2017, 10:34 AM
  #41
DEANYOUNGBLOOD17
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If he waives for the expansion draft....... his N.M.C. is Still in effect after/ if he is selected by Vegas.
- He can then refuse to be traded .

- Toby for 1 year@ 5.75 mill and no option of trading him is (zero) of little value to Vegas.

Vegas will choose Copp/ Dano/ + depending on what trades Chevy makes between now and E.D.

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06-07-2017, 10:38 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by AWSAA View Post
You don't know that. [mod]
And you also have no idea. Your opinion is not more valid than mine. I never mentioned the GM BTW. I just don't believe Toby has any interest in waiving.


Last edited by YWGinYYZ; 06-07-2017 at 11:27 AM.. Reason: QEP
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Old
06-07-2017, 10:40 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by DEANYOUNGBLOOD17 View Post
If he waives for the expansion draft....... his N.M.C. is Still in effect after/ if he is selected by Vegas.
- He can then refuse to be traded .

- Toby for 1 year@ 5.75 mill and no option of trading him is (zero) of little value to Vegas.

Vegas will choose Copep/ Dano/ + depending on what trades Chevy makes between now and E.D.
He would waive at the TD for a chance to win the Stanley Cup. Don't be ridiculous. He has Zero attachment to Vegas.

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06-07-2017, 10:41 AM
  #44
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I don't quite why people are framing this as Enstrom vs Perreault or Lowry. In my mind it's Enstrom vs Myers.

1 year of Enstrom vs 2 years of Myers seems a more reasonable conversation than 1 year of Enstrom vs 4 years of Perreault or all of Lowry's Career.

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06-07-2017, 10:50 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by csk View Post
I don't quite why people are framing this as Enstrom vs Perreault or Lowry. In my mind it's Enstrom vs Myers.

1 year of Enstrom vs 2 years of Myers seems a more reasonable conversation than 1 year of Enstrom vs 4 years of Perreault or all of Lowry's Career.
More and more I'm thinking this is correct. With all the issues surrounding those 2 players it just seems ridiculous to protect both at the cost of a much younger and quite probably more valuable forward.

Given that choice, I expose Myers. Even though he is a pending UFA Toby is the 2nd best LHD we have. The 3rd best one is not an adequate replacement. So expose Myers and hope that the health issue dissuades LV from taking him.

Protect Scheifele, Wheeler, Little, Perreault, Lowry, Armia, Copp. VGK can choose among Myers, Dano, Matthias, Chiarot and Stuart.

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06-07-2017, 11:17 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
More and more I'm thinking this is correct. With all the issues surrounding those 2 players it just seems ridiculous to protect both at the cost of a much younger and quite probably more valuable forward.

Given that choice, I expose Myers. Even though he is a pending UFA Toby is the 2nd best LHD we have. The 3rd best one is not an adequate replacement. So expose Myers and hope that the health issue dissuades LV from taking him.

Protect Scheifele, Wheeler, Little, Perreault, Lowry, Armia, Copp. VGK can choose among Myers, Dano, Matthias, Chiarot and Stuart.
I agree with you and this might have been done already.

I hope after the playoffs LV starts announcing one trade a day so this site does not go down, starting with us. Hoping a Dano + a 3rd to bypass Myers.

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Old
06-07-2017, 11:26 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by AWSAA View Post
Worse on paper maybe. Having him in the lineup has never translated into wins. With Enstrom gone Chevy might actually be forced to do something for once!

I wouldn't buy Toby out, but he should be shopped hard pre-XD. The return doesn't matter, any capspace gained would be an asset in and of itself.
Jets aren't hard against the cap next season at all. Enstrom's deal is up at the end of the season so before we have to extend Ehlers or try to renegotiate Trouba.

The return does matter, not that it will happen, because Stuart-Chiarot-Melchiori. Hate on Enstrom all anyone likes but he IS a far better option still than any of those three. Playoffs included.

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06-07-2017, 11:28 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
He would waive at the TD for a chance to win the Stanley Cup. Don't be ridiculous. He has Zero attachment to Vegas.
Why would Vegas take that chance?

If they were to select Enstrom there is a 50/50 chance that enstrom would use his N.M.C while in Vegas and not allow them to recoup any assets from him. Then they are stuck with him for 1 year at 5.75 mill which is double what he is currently worth.

If we expose Enstrom........Vegas will not select him!

" Don't be ridiculous"........ you should not be so naive.

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Old
06-07-2017, 11:34 AM
  #49
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Wow Toby is getting undervalued in this thread... I realize he didn't have a great (normal) season but considering how much trouble Jets had with defending last season there sure is a lot of people that want to make the defense worse. Claiming he is a third pairing defender on the team makes me think people don't know who is on the roster

I say let him play out this season to see if he bounces back. Then offer him a cheaper contract than what he has now and let him move down the lineup as we get players that are actually better than him. As of now, we only have one player ahead of him on the left side and three defenders that I consider better than him overall.

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Old
06-07-2017, 11:41 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by ffh View Post
Consensus 5th best dman on this team. Pending ufa who will more then likely be on 3rd pairing. Does toby take 2 million next year to be 3rd pairing or does he leave. So for 1 year of 3rd pairing dman we lose 4 years of perreault or half a dozen years of lowry. Get him to waive or buy him out.
isn't this essentially the question?

the certainty of keeping Lowry, Copp, Armia and/or Dano versus the uncertainty of losing one of them or Enstrom in expansion.

if exposed, i would be quite certain Enstrom would be selected, even as a trade chip.
D are worth more than forwards and i think Enstrom has more value (to this team) than Dano, Copp and likely Lowry.

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