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Warren Rychel "has had discussions with the Avs about joining the front office"

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Old
06-09-2017, 01:57 PM
  #126
Bonzai12
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Billington has been there since he retired. He's not inexperienced at all.

I want him gone though. He's been the captain of mediocrity.

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06-09-2017, 02:14 PM
  #127
Cullen Bohannon
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Billington is pretty awful but it's not like he's had a competent scouting department pumping in good prospects to help him out.

His arm must be sore trying to polish all the turds he's had to work with.

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06-09-2017, 02:50 PM
  #128
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I would argue development, which he is in charge of, is at least half the problem.

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06-09-2017, 04:03 PM
  #129
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I think it makes sense for Billington to be replaced, but more just based on the amount of time he's been in a similar role, and the lack of results.

I don't think he's a big part of the problem though.

If he were to be blamed for the lack of NHLers the team has found through the draft, then that would mean their junior head coaches and assistant coaches, and European head and assistant coaches, and AHL head and assistant coaches, and the players themselves have very little impact on their actual development. Something which I don't think is true at all.

There hasn't been results, but the development staff can't work miracles either. To me the amateur scouting, and draft philosophy (especially in the past) is a much bigger problem.

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06-09-2017, 04:45 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by tigervixxxen View Post
I would argue development, which he is in charge of, is at least half the problem.
Curious, what development problems?

Not saying you're wrong because defensive wise it has been atrocious. However, forward and goaltending wise they've been good to okay, there are worst teams in the league in both aspects.

I would say that Avs signing and drafting low potential, but high character forwards have more to do with it. Rendulic, Bleackley, Magyar, Clarke, Blandisi, Will, Everberg, Siemens, and Bourke never really had much talent to begin with.

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06-09-2017, 05:44 PM
  #131
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This is a much more of a philosophical debate than I want to get into right now but take Blandisi for example, he's somewhat of a NHL player and I very highly doubt he would have done anything more than Bourke had he signed here. Bourke remember a lot of people thought had some decent skill and potential and they did absolutely nothing with his game for three years. Maybe he wasn't that good to begin with, maybe it's they have no idea how to turn skilled junior forwards into NHL players.

And yeah I agree they need to move away from limited upside high floor type players because they can't get NHL players out of those guys anyway so what's the point of having a high floor?


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06-10-2017, 02:14 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by tigervixxxen View Post
This is a much more of a philosophical debate than I want to get into right now but take Blandisi for example, he's somewhat of a NHL player and I very highly doubt he would have done anything more than Bourke had he signed here. Bourke remember a lot of people thought had some decent skill and potential and they did absolutely nothing with his game for three years. Maybe he wasn't that good to begin with, maybe it's they have no idea how to turn skilled junior forwards into NHL players.

And yeah I agree they need to move away from limited upside high floor type players because they can't get NHL players out of those guys anyway so what's the point of having a high floor?
It's hard to tell with hypothetical situations like Blandisi though. Maybe he wouldn't have been more than Bourke with the Avs, but is that an example of New Jersey developing him more, or them being more willing to play him in the NHL?

To me I think it's definitely the latter. The Avs are reluctant to give players like him much of a look, unless they really impress offensively, and buy into the system they play.

That doesn't mean NJ managed turn him into something the Avs didn't though. He's still very much a borderline NHLer. He spent half of each of the last two seasons in the AHL, and in the NHL he averages around 13 minutes, which is 3rd/4th line minutes. A role that's gonna be tough for him to handle on a consistent basis.

He could very well end up a career AHLer that had some NHL looks in his early 20's, but didn't contribute much. If that's the case, then yeah the Devils got more NHL games out of him, but that's not an example of the Devils getting more out of him than the Avs. That's an example of them being more willing to play him, while the Avs preferred to play other players.

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06-10-2017, 10:38 AM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic MacK View Post
It's hard to tell with hypothetical situations like Blandisi though. Maybe he wouldn't have been more than Bourke with the Avs, but is that an example of New Jersey developing him more, or them being more willing to play him in the NHL?

To me I think it's definitely the latter. The Avs are reluctant to give players like him much of a look, unless they really impress offensively, and buy into the system they play.

That doesn't mean NJ managed turn him into something the Avs didn't though. He's still very much a borderline NHLer. He spent half of each of the last two seasons in the AHL, and in the NHL he averages around 13 minutes, which is 3rd/4th line minutes. A role that's gonna be tough for him to handle on a consistent basis.

He could very well end up a career AHLer that had some NHL looks in his early 20's, but didn't contribute much. If that's the case, then yeah the Devils got more NHL games out of him, but that's not an example of the Devils getting more out of him than the Avs. That's an example of them being more willing to play him, while the Avs preferred to play other players.
Personally I think it's a combination of drafting low potential players and also having a terrible development system. When you look at the very few players that have made it through that nightmare of an AHL team to the NHL squad, they tend to be developing in spite of the system, rather than as a part of the system.

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06-10-2017, 11:13 AM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigervixxxen View Post
This is a much more of a philosophical debate than I want to get into right now but take Blandisi for example, he's somewhat of a NHL player and I very highly doubt he would have done anything more than Bourke had he signed here. Bourke remember a lot of people thought had some decent skill and potential and they did absolutely nothing with his game for three years. Maybe he wasn't that good to begin with, maybe it's they have no idea how to turn skilled junior forwards into NHL players.

And yeah I agree they need to move away from limited upside high floor type players because they can't get NHL players out of those guys anyway so what's the point of having a high floor?
Understandable, but I do have some problems with your theory here. First, I agree with Blandisi, but he did go through that horrible virus and illness which maybe made the Avs back off (which was wrong, but also excusable IMHO). I suggest that Avs have more problems in giving up on players to early than purely development. I'm all for getting rid of Billington and trying something new as with defensive prospects it has never worked out with him. But I personally don't see that development is "awful" to the point we need to fire everyone.

Bourke, even with all the talent, which I do agree he had some was always a tweener. That Bonino or JG Pageau type of player, and for one of those, there are many more that fail. Personally speaking, I consider it more due to Avs hiring that **** of a coach in Dean Chynoweth which destroyed Troy than development. Anyone with horrible eyesight and didn't wear their contacts/glasses could have seen that Coach Dean hated Bourke. Never saw him as anything more than an AHL grinder based on how he played him. Thankfully he's gone and I have much more faith in Eric Veilleux. EV isn't perfect at all, but I saw good things even if they went on that horrible streak towards the end of the season there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic MacK View Post
That doesn't mean NJ managed turn him into something the Avs didn't though. He's still very much a borderline NHLer. He spent half of each of the last two seasons in the AHL, and in the NHL he averages around 13 minutes, which is 3rd/4th line minutes. A role that's gonna be tough for him to handle on a consistent basis.
I agree that MM that Blandisi is the type of player you can find in free agency, Europe, or with overager prospects. But, Avs have to stop missing with those picks. Blandisi is still unknown if he will be an NHL or AHL player, but what he does do is increase the Avs depth which is one of their biggest issues. You want all your draft picks to make the NHL, especially the lower end ones like Blandisi in the sixth round to be part of your squad, even as a 4th line player.

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06-10-2017, 11:28 AM
  #135
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I'll be the first to admit I haven't watched the Avs with as much passion in the last two years, but in recent history it just seems like we are signing guys to play 3rd and 4th lines rather than filling those spots internally. I've always though that is such a strong indication of how bad the development is. We can't get those fringe guys to be good enough to play on a NHL roster. And when we take extremely talented guys in the first round they go straight to the NHL without any type of break-in period.

Granted we don't have the luxury of having a forsberg or sakic to take pressure off a young 1st rounder but I think about how Stastny was brought along as a winger/2nd liner when Sakic was here. He was brought along slowly and learned. I wish we could find a superstar/1st line vet that could help bring some of these kids along slower and take pressure off them.

Anyways - probably a rant here but it just seems like development fails at all levels.

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06-10-2017, 04:12 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Bonzai12 View Post
I'll be the first to admit I haven't watched the Avs with as much passion in the last two years, but in recent history it just seems like we are signing guys to play 3rd and 4th lines rather than filling those spots internally. I've always though that is such a strong indication of how bad the development is. We can't get those fringe guys to be good enough to play on a NHL roster. And when we take extremely talented guys in the first round they go straight to the NHL without any type of break-in period.

Granted we don't have the luxury of having a forsberg or sakic to take pressure off a young 1st rounder but I think about how Stastny was brought along as a winger/2nd liner when Sakic was here. He was brought along slowly and learned. I wish we could find a superstar/1st line vet that could help bring some of these kids along slower and take pressure off them.

Anyways - probably a rant here but it just seems like development fails at all levels.
A lot of it has to do with the Avs preferring proven vets in those roles. Which I think might be more of a coaching preference.

The Avs do have player developmental issues. 2011, 2012, 2014 are proof of that. 2013 is potentially questionable but Mack is a solid NHL player, Bigras has a future and Martin potentially has a role moving forward.

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06-12-2017, 03:17 PM
  #137
Mystic MacK
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It'll be interesting to see how Boughner does in Florida, considering Sakic had the chance to hire Rychel as GM this summer, and seemingly by all accounts he would have accepted it. Then if given the proper autonomy, he probably would have hired Boughner, who likely would have accepted it given that they are close, and Boughner was in discussions for the HC gig last summer.

Potentially another missed opportunity, but I guess we'll have to wait and see how it stacks up with Joe's preferred path, that seems motivated by him staying on as GM for at least another year so he can be the guy to set the table on the rebuild.

All things being equal, if you take your ego and pride out of the equation, and ask yourself what's best for the franchise, it seems to me the most obvious choice is bringing in a new GM as soon as possible. If they're asking for proven guys to come in and prove further that they're worth it by assistant GM'ing for a year, while a guy with very little experience, and a poor track record makes the decisions, that's just another example of incompetent management IMO.


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