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What Should the Bruins do this Summer? II

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Old
06-19-2017, 11:37 AM
  #876
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
No way a team could ever win with Phil Kessel. I was told that in 2010. Then again, in the spring of 2011 I was told that Tyler Sequin was a 2way beast who was committed to being the best player he could possibly be. And in 2012 I was told that Dougie Hamilton was a physical Dman who was elite already.
i think the qualifier is with kessel as your 'star leader'

hes so good he would be the best player on half the teams in nhl... and a horrible leader for those teams. pittsburg has 2 much better players. kessel is sometimed on their 3rd line. hes a support player who can take advantage of matchups and play with world class playmakers on the pp

hes always been a good player at playoffs but during regular season he doesnt lead his team during tough times... and hes a bad example.

im happy for him he found a good home... but i wouldnt want him on my team unless he was just a support player here too

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06-19-2017, 11:46 AM
  #877
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Originally Posted by GloryDaze4877 View Post
Adapt and overcome.

I'm sorry, but I thinks it's ridiculous to get all over Boston's **** for not adding an impact guy in a deal and then saying you will still be giving the Pens credit for Kessel 6 years from now.

Whoo! How about that awesome trade for Kunitz back in 2008/09!!

I'm not sure how many times I have to say it, but the B's window closed in 2014. Given that, they were not in a situation to be making 3 for 1 deals, because they weren't "one player a way" since Sweeney took over.
Was I unclear? Have the Penguins been winning Cups every year since 2008-09? Cause if not, then it's about a football field left of the point. You're being obtuse if you don't count Kessel as an impact acquisition that has been instrumental in the Penguins success of the last two seasons.

And is it your assertion (once again I ask) that the Bruins have not TRIED to make those deals any time in the last six years? Or that Sweeney hasn't tried? Because if you believe he has, it kinda flies in the face of your latter point. Which is moot anyway as teams make those trades all the time even if they aren't just "one player away" as it is their job to make their respective teams better.

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06-19-2017, 11:53 AM
  #878
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Originally Posted by RetiredWBC8 View Post
Two things on Kessel.

First, people have short memories, his Toronto contract was looked upon everywhere as one of the worst in the entire NHL, and it was unmovable "as is"

Secondly, EM called it years ago, where he said Kessel will be a great player and best served when he is the third best forward on the team..not first, not second. Obviously Jim Rutherford had the exact same thoughts in mind when he made the deal and looks like a genius. Phil is a complimentary player.
No short memory here. I don't disagree with a thing you've said here. Except maybe the implication that it was only a good move for Pittsburgh in hindsight... If that is in fact a correct interpretation on my part.

I called Horton an impact trade acquisition for the Bruins. If that's true, Kessel is impact and then some. Not sure this is even debatable.

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06-19-2017, 11:54 AM
  #879
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Originally Posted by Mr. Make-Believe View Post
Was I unclear? Have the Penguins been winning Cups every year since 2008-09? Cause if not, then it's about a football field left of the point. You're being obtuse if you don't count Kessel as an impact acquisition that has been instrumental in the Penguins success of the last two seasons.

And is it your assertion (once again I ask) that the Bruins have not TRIED to make those deals any time in the last six years? Or that Sweeney hasn't tried? Because if you believe he has, it kinda flies in the face of your latter point. Which is moot anyway as teams make those trades all the time even if they aren't just "one player away" as it is their job to make their respective teams better.
Tend to agree with the bolded...with the caveat that sometimes you pass on a deal that makes the team better now, if you're far enough away from contention that the organization would be better off with a longer-term focus.

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06-19-2017, 12:21 PM
  #880
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Tend to agree with the bolded...with the caveat that sometimes you pass on a deal that makes the team better now, if you're far enough away from contention that the organization would be better off with a longer-term focus.
Of course. Absolutely.

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06-19-2017, 12:29 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Mr. Make-Believe View Post
Was I unclear? Have the Penguins been winning Cups every year since 2008-09? Cause if not, then it's about a football field left of the point. You're being obtuse if you don't count Kessel as an impact acquisition that has been instrumental in the Penguins success of the last two seasons.

And is it your assertion (once again I ask) that the Bruins have not TRIED to make those deals any time in the last six years? Or that Sweeney hasn't tried? Because if you believe he has, it kinda flies in the face of your latter point. Which is moot anyway as teams make those trades all the time even if they aren't just "one player away" as it is their job to make their respective teams better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathews28 View Post
Tend to agree with the bolded...with the caveat that sometimes you pass on a deal that makes the team better now, if you're far enough away from contention that the organization would be better off with a longer-term focus.


I do count Kessel as an "impact acquisition"...in 2015-16 (never said otherwise). In 2016-17, the Pens added Hainsey, not what I would call an "impact player". Not sure if you are being obtuse, but my point was that every year is a new year.

The Pens acquired Kunitz in 2008-09 and won a Cup that year, so he was an impact acquisition that year. Is he an impact acquisition in 2015-16 and 16-17 because he's STILL on the team?

Chia supposedly tried to add Iginla in 2012-13 (got Jagr instead). If he had been successful, I believe the B's win the Cup that year. I have no idea what he tried to do in the years after that. Just like I have no idea what Sweeney has tried to do in his tenure.

What I have been saying as well (which M28 points out) is that since Sweeney took over, I don't think the B's have been in a position to make a 3 for 1 deal where they get the "best player". Personally, I'm happy that he didn't give in to the temptation to make a deal like that and stuck to the draft/develop plan because IMO the B's were nowhere near a Cup.

If the GM's for CAR, PHI, BUF, or a number of mediocre NHL teams had not made "impact" deals for the last three seasons, would you say they were failures, or just being prudent?

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06-19-2017, 12:56 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by Mr. Make-Believe View Post
No short memory here. I don't disagree with a thing you've said here. Except maybe the implication that it was only a good move for Pittsburgh in hindsight... If that is in fact a correct interpretation on my part.

I called Horton an impact trade acquisition for the Bruins. If that's true, Kessel is impact and then some. Not sure this is even debatable.
Like Horton here, Pittsburgh was the perfect place for Phil. That's all I meant.

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06-19-2017, 01:32 PM
  #883
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Originally Posted by GloryDaze4877 View Post
I do count Kessel as an "impact acquisition"...in 2015-16 (never said otherwise). In 2016-17, the Pens added Hainsey, not what I would call an "impact player". Not sure if you are being obtuse, but my point was that every year is a new year.

The Pens acquired Kunitz in 2008-09 and won a Cup that year, so he was an impact acquisition that year. Is he an impact acquisition in 2015-16 and 16-17 because he's STILL on the team?

Chia supposedly tried to add Iginla in 2012-13 (got Jagr instead). If he had been successful, I believe the B's win the Cup that year. I have no idea what he tried to do in the years after that. Just like I have no idea what Sweeney has tried to do in his tenure.

What I have been saying as well (which M28 points out) is that since Sweeney took over, I don't think the B's have been in a position to make a 3 for 1 deal where they get the "best player". Personally, I'm happy that he didn't give in to the temptation to make a deal like that and stuck to the draft/develop plan because IMO the B's were nowhere near a Cup.

If the GM's for CAR, PHI, BUF, or a number of mediocre NHL teams had not made "impact" deals for the last three seasons, would you say they were failures, or just being prudent?

The point I was trying to make was that every single great team has had to add players via trade, whether they do that the year they win or 2 years before has nothing to do with it. They don't sit around and wait to see if all their prospects will turn into impact guys.

The Bruins have made 5 1st round picks in the last 2 years, so I'm not buying them not being a position to do a 3 for 1 trade to aquire a player.

Is there a player in the system that you think could step onto Krejci's LW and be effective for a full season? I'm not seeing one and if they don't take care of that they will struggle again this season.

Do you think JFK, Bjork, DeBrusk, Heinen, Gabrielle, Senyshn, Cheralik, Acciari, Czarnik etc are all going to play for the Bruins in the near future in a full time capacity? If not, then why not package some of them up and try to get someone that will?

Did anyone here think they were going to make those 3 consecutive picks in 2015 leading up to the draft? Or both the picks last year? Hell, lots of people here think they'll end up dealing this year's first rounder for something. Why is that? I would say it's because they need some immediate help and they also don't really have the room for all those prospects.

I remember when Subban was untouchable and every team was asking about him and the Bruins refused to trade him, even though they had just signed Rask to a long term deal. Now look, they'd be lucky to get a md round pick for the guy and he's unlikely to crack this lineup as a back up. I would be lying if I said that I'm not worried about some of the current crop of prospects being in that same situation in 3 or 4 years from now.

As cool as it is to stockpile prospects and fantasize about how great the future will be, they should still be trying to ice the best team they can right now while guys like Marchand are having career years and Rask is still a top flight goalie.

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06-19-2017, 01:39 PM
  #884
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Wow.......Phil the Thrill is getting more attention in this thread than he did the entire time he played here.

I have a question regarding Dumba/Brodin/Vatenan/Trouba etc

After the expansion draft, if deals were made so they wouldnt be selected( Trouba/Brodin were protected) is there still talk of them getting dealt or was it all expansion related?

Second question is has anyone heard any rumblings about any of the UFA's this summer? Any potential targets or will changes only be made by trades?

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06-19-2017, 02:12 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
The point I was trying to make was that every single great team has had to add players via trade, whether they do that the year they win or 2 years before has nothing to do with it. They don't sit around and wait to see if all their prospects will turn into impact guys.

The Bruins have made 5 1st round picks in the last 2 years, so I'm not buying them not being a position to do a 3 for 1 trade to aquire a player.

Is there a player in the system that you think could step onto Krejci's LW and be effective for a full season? I'm not seeing one and if they don't take care of that they will struggle again this season.

Do you think JFK, Bjork, DeBrusk, Heinen, Gabrielle, Senyshn, Cheralik, Acciari, Czarnik etc are all going to play for the Bruins in the near future in a full time capacity? If not, then why not package some of them up and try to get someone that will?

Did anyone here think they were going to make those 3 consecutive picks in 2015 leading up to the draft? Or both the picks last year? Hell, lots of people here think they'll end up dealing this year's first rounder for something. Why is that? I would say it's because they need some immediate help and they also don't really have the room for all those prospects.

I remember when Subban was untouchable and every team was asking about him and the Bruins refused to trade him, even though they had just signed Rask to a long term deal. Now look, they'd be lucky to get a md round pick for the guy and he's unlikely to crack this lineup as a back up. I would be lying if I said that I'm not worried about some of the current crop of prospects being in that same situation in 3 or 4 years from now.

As cool as it is to stockpile prospects and fantasize about how great the future will be, they should still be trying to ice the best team they can right now while guys like Marchand are having career years and Rask is still a top flight goalie.
You can buy or not buy whatever you choose, but if I am the GM of a team, I don't make a "3 for 1" deal just because I have a lot of assets and I can. I make it when the time is right, and that move will help propel the team to the Finals (at least).

If you are good/lucky enough to make a deal that helps the team be better now, and going forward, when the team is ready to compete, that's great, but those deals are few and far between.

PIT was in a completely different place than the B's the last couple of years and I would not expect their gameplans to be the same.

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06-19-2017, 02:39 PM
  #886
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Originally Posted by Dizzay View Post
Wow.......Phil the Thrill is getting more attention in this thread than he did the entire time he played here.

I have a question regarding Dumba/Brodin/Vatenan/Trouba etc

After the expansion draft, if deals were made so they wouldnt be selected( Trouba/Brodin were protected) is there still talk of them getting dealt or was it all expansion related?

Second question is has anyone heard any rumblings about any of the UFA's this summer? Any potential targets or will changes only be made by trades?
I haven't read anywhere that Trouba is available, and in my opinion, I don't see him available. He is the Jets' #1D going forward.

On Minnesota in general, them not dealing Brodin on Saturday told me anyways that they value the depth they have on defense. They want to contend and if you want to contend, you need to have good defensive depth. If they traded a defenseman, the return would have had to help them in their pursuit for a deep playoff run (Stanley Cup) more than their defenseman and the loss of another defenseman in the expansion draft. So that leaves us with Dumba, who I don't think is a fit on this team with McAvoy and Carlo as our top 4. I don't think I've read anything saying that Minnesota will make a deal with Las Vegas to not draft someone like Scandella or Dumba, if there is something out there please let me know, but it could be a direction Minnesota takes. What I have read regarding Las Vegas and Minnesota is that if Las Vegas drafts Dumba and decides to trade him for a 1st + prospect, Minnesota would not be able to match that offer.

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06-19-2017, 02:40 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by GloryDaze4877 View Post
You can buy or not buy whatever you choose, but if I am the GM of a team, I don't make a "3 for 1" deal just because I have a lot of assets and I can. I make it when the time is right, and that move will help propel the team to the Finals (at least).

If you are good/lucky enough to make a deal that helps the team be better now, and going forward, when the team is ready to compete, that's great, but those deals are few and far between.

PIT was in a completely different place than the B's the last couple of years and I would not expect their gameplans to be the same.
The Bruins have basically been in the exact same spot the past 3 seasons points wise, so maybe making a trade would get them closer.

The idea that you only make a trade when you are close to competing for a Cup doesn't make much sense to me. I want them to get a player that can be part of their core going forward, not just a rental for a year.

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06-19-2017, 02:51 PM
  #888
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With Lebrun reporting that Coyotes and Doan are parting ways, I think he'd be a great vet to bring in and play that Mark Recchi role on the Bergy and Marshy line. If he fails there, he can play the 3rd line with Backes or even 4th line with Nash. Bottom line is I think he's a great vet presence to bring into this team. Plus the Bruins can be contenders in the East and I'm sure he'd like a crack at the Cup before calling it a career.

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06-19-2017, 02:58 PM
  #889
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With Lebrun reporting that Coyotes and Doan are parting ways, I think he'd be a great vet to bring in and play that Mark Recchi role on the Bergy and Marshy line. If he fails there, he can play the 3rd line with Backes or even 4th line with Nash. Bottom line is I think he's a great vet presence to bring into this team. Plus the Bruins can be contenders in the East and I'm sure he'd like a crack at the Cup before calling it a career.
Doan will likely retire, before choosing another franchise, very similar to Bourque asking to go to Colorado.... too much of an iconic presence, and it's why COL retired 77....

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06-19-2017, 03:15 PM
  #890
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Not to mention, why do the Bruins need a vet presence when they have Bergeron/Chara/Krejci/Backes/Marchand/etc.? Plenty of veterans on the team as is. They need to worry about adding young, skilled players.

I don't understand why people want to bring in these old guys...the league is moving towards younger/faster/more skilled. The Bruins got in trouble IMO when they re-signed/kept guys like Kelly around too long and I don't want to see them go down that road again.

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06-19-2017, 03:18 PM
  #891
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Not to mention, why do the Bruins need a vet presence when they have Bergeron/Chara/Krejci/Backes/Marchand/etc.? Plenty of veterans on the team as is. They need to worry about adding young, skilled players.

I don't understand why people want to bring in these old guys...the league is moving towards younger/faster/more skilled. The Bruins got in trouble IMO when they re-signed/kept guys like Kelly around too long and I don't want to see them go down that road again.
Yeah I agree. I thought Backes was overkill in the whole "veteran presence" category, so I definitely don't think we need more of that. We need "skill and scoring presence".

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06-19-2017, 03:23 PM
  #892
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A line of Backes and Doan would get completely lit up in the new NHL

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06-19-2017, 03:32 PM
  #893
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Id offer him a PTO for camp so he can see what a real NHL team is like. Nothing more though unless he gives Boston no option but to have him cheaply

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06-19-2017, 04:14 PM
  #894
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Would appear Doan will pursue free agency as per his agent comments in an NBC sports article. Looking for a chance to win Stanley before he calls it a day. Did wonder if Winnipeg would entertain allowing him to return and close out his career in the place where it all started. Do not see the Bruins being interested in his services.

"His agent, Terry Bross, then called the team’s decision a “very sad day for Arizona hockey.”
“Shane is ready to enter the free-agent market and see where it goes,” Bross added, per Craig Morgan of Arizona Sports. “Time for him to get a shot at the Cup.”



http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2017/06/19/...th-shane-doan/

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06-19-2017, 04:30 PM
  #895
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Doan will likely retire, before choosing another franchise, very similar to Bourque asking to go to Colorado.... too much of an iconic presence, and it's why COL retired 77....
I can see him going to a select few places.

Maybe Calgary, because it's "kinda" his hometown. But they aren't a contender so I can see him passing.

Maybe Nashville or Dallas because he's a bit of a cowboy, but Dallas isn't a contender.

Don't see any way he comes east.

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06-19-2017, 04:31 PM
  #896
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Id offer him a PTO for camp so he can see what a real NHL team is like. Nothing more though unless he gives Boston no option but to have him cheaply
Zero chance Doan signs a PTO imo. 1) He's a proud guy and 2) Someone will give him a contract

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06-19-2017, 04:47 PM
  #897
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Wow.......Phil the Thrill is getting more attention in this thread than he did the entire time he played here.

I have a question regarding Dumba/Brodin/Vatenan/Trouba etc

After the expansion draft, if deals were made so they wouldnt be selected( Trouba/Brodin were protected) is there still talk of them getting dealt or was it all expansion related?

Second question is has anyone heard any rumblings about any of the UFA's this summer? Any potential targets or will changes only be made by trades?
situation is similar but a little differnt for brodin/trouba

they both basically come down to dealing from strength. if a team has one position over loaded, they often pick a guy in the middle of their depth chart to trade. traditionally we see this with teams that get 3 top centers like pittsburg with staal or colorado with drury or detroit with primeau... it can happen with dmen too like langway in montreal.

the trouba situation involves a contract squabble too. dmen that score points get paid more. winnipeg didnt want to pay trouba. but, trouba felt he wasnt given a chance to score based on icetime. if winnipeg commits to using trouba in better opportunities and pay him accordingly, the trade rumor will go away but... winnipeg still has 3 right shot dmen that arguably are first pairing guys. they will need to deal myers if they dont deal trouba.. imho

as for ufa targets for us based on real life 'rumblings'

until july 1st any leaks from management are tampering and would be punished by the league

dominec moore and drew stafford have both said they are willing/hopeful to be back

jarome iginla moved his family here

my analysis suggests the team wants a winger for krejci... i dont feel backes played well there and pastrnak was better with marchand. i do believe theres a strong chance iginla would wish to come back

as for moore/stafford... they would be bottom line guys and cost a kid a spot to develop. i think the numbers work against them

dont expect anything big and splashy from ufa as we are in a reload and will fill most spots with kids

the one spot we might make a splash is trading for a left hand shot dman. charas future is uncertain after this season and none of our lh shot dmen are bluechip enough to be counted on in our top 4 for the next couple years

neely was candid in his interview he wants a lhs dman with some puck moving ability

brodin obviously fits that description so bruins are likely interested if the price is right

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06-19-2017, 04:57 PM
  #898
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Zero chance Doan signs a PTO imo. 1) He's a proud guy and 2) Someone will give him a contract
Maybe he takes a sweetheart deal to go to the Pens.

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06-19-2017, 05:20 PM
  #899
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If we lose McQuaid I just have a gut feeling Alzner will be signed via UFA.

And I wouldn't sleep on Dmitry Kulikov. He's our type of player.


Last edited by moltisanti: 06-19-2017 at 05:41 PM.
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06-19-2017, 05:56 PM
  #900
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If we lose McQuaid I just have a gut feeling Alzner will be signed via UFA.

And I wouldn't sleep on Dmitry Kulikov. He's our type of player.
Would hate both these moves. There's no reason for either guy, whether McQ is here or not.

Especially with our recent (lack of) success in the FA market.

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