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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

NHL viewer median age is now 49

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Old
06-11-2017, 04:13 PM
  #51
Fenway
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Xfinity/Comcast is getting creative on keeping customers - they are now offering very inexpensive cell service IF you are an existing internet/cable customer. I made the switch and I will save roughly $60 a month that I was paying AT&T for phone. Xfinity is using Verizon's towers so voice coverage is excellent.

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06-11-2017, 04:39 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by PuckProphet View Post
I have thought about this ....tv still being the biggest venue back in 2013 2014 .... However the thought of growing the league creating interest and revenue through association not on ice play or fandom was mocked .... they didn't want the players wives on tv they didn't want to play game shows they didn't want productions catered to new fans ( they are doing an ok job of productions related to already fans) while not your point the post is insightful .....no new blood or innovation


Add in the internet for which now they need Growth Hackers A term they didn't get until the last coulee of years .... Add in the fact most tv is a big production company that has several shows ...that employs a demographic that shuns Hockey .... them = both the players and owners ....
Oh ya, US based television productions that featured hockey in the storylines & Canadian productions though not to quite the same extent early on stereotyped hockey & hockey fans along with players. On Cheers for example Carla the waitress played by Rhea Perlman had a husband "Eddie", Goalie for the Bruins, sometime vistor to the bar but written out of the script. Apparently ran away & joined the Ice Capades... The unforgettable Puddy of Seinfield fame, Elaines BF, "Face Painter" episode. Dennis Leary, a big fan himself & Rec Player featuring hockey in many of his episodes of Rescue Me including cameo's from Cam Neeley & Phil Esposito. Its somewhat marginalized, a joke, certainly no serious treatment really given to it, Slapshot, Mighty Ducks etc with the exception of the family film Miracle on Ice starring Kurt Russell. Even in Canada a lot of the productions comedies (wasnt there recently an "NHL Wives" reality series as well?) though there have been a few exceptions; The Rocket, Net Worth.

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06-11-2017, 05:10 PM
  #53
Kyle McMahon
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
There are business reasons to "care" in the sense of advertising, who's watching and where/when they're watching, just to name a few.
Yes, but again, why should this concern the average hockey fan? At this point, what is there to gain by further growth/expansion to the sport? More money for owners, TV executives, and players...lots of parties with plenty to gain financially, but "fans" are not one of them.

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Originally Posted by RedBruin View Post
Yup, never got this either. Never ever got a proper reply to it. Even if the NHL was to "stop growing" and did pretty bad economically for years there still would be pro hockey played at the highest level 10-20 years down the road.
I can understand fans of teams from markets that are not stable being interested in growing the sport on a regional level to prevent their team from moving, but other than that...
Exactly. This isn't a league like the CFL where there are legitimate concerns that bad business decisions could actually cause significant risk of teams folding, the league going under, etc.

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06-11-2017, 05:15 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Oh ya, US based television productions that featured hockey in the storylines & Canadian productions though not to quite the same extent early on stereotyped hockey & hockey fans along with players. On Cheers for example Carla the waitress played by Rhea Perlman had a husband "Eddie", Goalie for the Bruins, sometime vistor to the bar but written out of the script. Apparently ran away & joined the Ice Capades... The unforgettable Puddy of Seinfield fame, Elaines BF, "Face Painter" episode. Dennis Leary, a big fan himself & Rec Player featuring hockey in many of his episodes of Rescue Me including cameo's from Cam Neeley & Phil Esposito. Its somewhat marginalized, a joke, certainly no serious treatment really given to it, Slapshot, Mighty Ducks etc with the exception of the family film Miracle on Ice starring Kurt Russell. Even in Canada a lot of the productions comedies (wasnt there recently an "NHL Wives" reality series as well?) though there have been a few exceptions; The Rocket, Net Worth.
In the late 70's SI did a survey and one of the questions was who is your favorite hockey player. Gordie Howe finished 3rd, Bobby Orr finished second.

#1?


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06-11-2017, 05:29 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
In the late 70's SI did a survey and one of the questions was who is your favorite hockey player. Gordie Howe finished 3rd, Bobby Orr finished second.
... hey, Paul Newman. Who doesnt like Paul Newman? I assume it was random choice with photo's, obvious is obvious, meant to be fun with Reggie Dunlop thrown in there so sure.... I'd have voted for him too.

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06-11-2017, 06:31 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Urbanskog View Post
The NHL is the only Big Four league without a single nationality constituting the majority while American players make up 70% of NBA players.

Which one is more diverse?
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Originally Posted by DoyleG View Post
In his mind, the NBA due to its 'blackness'.
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Originally Posted by RainierBeat View Post
Lol I didn't realize the fact most players come from the United States and are black means multiple countries and races? NHL players come from many different European countries, but I guess that's not enough because of being white right?
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
that is a touchy subject

if you break down diversity by skin colour I see the point--but if breakdown by country it is diverse
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Originally Posted by MayDay View Post
"Lack of diversity"? The NHL is the most diverse North American sports league. Think about all the nationalities represented. All the different languages spoken in dressing rooms. That's true diversity.

Compare to something like the NFL, where 99% of players all come from the same country and speak the same language. That's not diverse at all.
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Unless you define "diversity" in a very shallow and superficial way to mean "the number of non-white people."

But I assume posters here would not think about these issues in such a simple-minded way.
These are all mostly white upper middle class countries other then Russia. Why isn't the NHL marketing PK Subban better? Why do so many current NHL fans get bugged by him. Think about it. The NHL is losing out on new fanbases with it's old school attitude.
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Not to pick on you two, but do you understand how divided the US is right now, and much of that is based on race, religion, gender, orientation, etc.? I think you actually do understand. Furthermore, if you ask a person from one of the groups above, their definition of diversity would different to what you state here.









I think you're underestimating the gap in our country right now between people - due to their skin color, socioeconomic status, or other factors.

So to make it relevant to this discussion, it would seem that many NHL fans are indeed Caucasian, with higher income levels, higher education levels, and older -- which IS relevant to the people buying ad space or promotions, for example.

I think the point Fenway was trying to make is that the times are changing.
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Originally Posted by berklon View Post
Not according to cable providers... the ones effected by it.

Cord-cutting is a concern and is growing each year. Many kids have barely experienced cable. The idea of watching something at a specific time each week and only in their living room is archaic to them. They want to watch whatever they want, whenever they want and wherever they want.

I grew up watching TV in the 70's and even I find the restrictions now annoying. I've cut the cord for years and haven't regretted it one bit.

I don't think the NHL drawing more affluent fans is a good thing. It shows how limited the fan base is. Basically it's being watched by old white folks. We already see how little attention the NHL gets compared to MLB, NFL and the NBA... it will only get worse if the fanbase continues to remain white and gets older.
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
Not really my thread, but I think the discussion of diversity needs a comment.....

It's not the diversity of the players that's in question. It's the diversity of the fans. NHL fans skew to "older" "upper middle class" "white"

And, again, as has been said earlier, the issue is not "how many are streaming", but it's "If TV viewership is down and/or skewing to older fans, what does that say about what NBC or Rogers might or might not want to pay for the next media rights contract?"
Exactly.

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06-11-2017, 07:09 PM
  #57
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One of the biggest problems about the NHL is that they are not seen as cool by the upcoming generation for whatever reason. I recently worked at an environment around a lot of college students in their 1st year or 2nd year and a lot of them preferred to watch the NBA and didn't even bother to know much about hockey despite the fact that these are Canadians who have a professional hockey franchise in their backyard.

For whatever reason, they just weren't interested in watching the game, playing the game or even talking about the game. Be it the entertainment factor of the actual sport itself, the lack of iconic mainstream superstars, the relatively low key and boring nature of hockey players or the on screen presentation. Whatever it is, it's a telling sign of what's to come and to those who say it isn't a big deal, it's a big big deal to any and all executives, shareholders of these sporting leagues and TV networks.

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06-11-2017, 07:20 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by qwerty View Post
One of the biggest problems about the NHL is that they are not seen as cool by the upcoming generation for whatever reason. I recently worked at an environment around a lot of college students in their 1st year or 2nd year and a lot of them preferred to watch the NBA and didn't even bother to know much about hockey despite the fact that these are Canadians who have a professional hockey franchise in their backyard.

For whatever reason, they just weren't interested in watching the game, playing the game or even talking about the game. Be it the entertainment factor of the actual sport itself, the lack of iconic mainstream superstars, the relatively low key and boring nature of hockey players or the on screen presentation. Whatever it is, it's a telling sign of what's to come and to those who say it isn't a big deal, it's a big big deal to any and all executives or shareholders of these sporting leagues.
Well, its a myth that the majority of Canadians are or ever were rabid hockey fans and that goes way back, during & before the Golden Era circa 47~67. Climate & other options play a big role in it, costs, access. In Calgary youve got access to some of the best skiing & hiking terrain in the World, Chinook effect in the city, Vancouver as well access to spectacular mountain terrain, rainforest climate. Soccer, baseball & football along with rugby & basketball all very popular. Lacrosse as well though not so much today as it was in the past.

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06-11-2017, 07:40 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Well, its a myth that the majority of Canadians are or ever were rabid hockey fans and that goes way back, during & before the Golden Era circa 47~67. Climate & other options play a big role in it, costs, access. In Calgary youve got access to some of the best skiing & hiking terrain in the World, Chinook effect in the city, Vancouver as well access to spectacular mountain terrain, rainforest climate. Soccer, baseball & football along with rugby & basketball all very popular. Lacrosse as well though not so much today as it was in the past.
This is not really just an issue that's unique to Calgary or the rest of Canada. The numbers seem to point that there's a large contingency of the younger generation who are ignoring the sport.

This is a generation issue. The question is how does the NHL get young people to care about their product like their biggest rival the NBA. I'm sure a playoff run like we're seeing in Nashville right now would surely bring interest from a younger crowd in Nashville and area. But it's unrealistic to hope for an epic playoff run from all 31 franchises in the near future.

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06-11-2017, 07:54 PM
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Seems legit. I work at a high school and NBA is easily king. Only one student could tell me who is still in the playoffs for NHL

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06-11-2017, 07:55 PM
  #61
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Well, its a myth that the majority of Canadians are or ever were rabid hockey fans and that goes way back, during & before the Golden Era circa 47~67. Climate & other options play a big role in it, costs, access. In Calgary youve got access to some of the best skiing & hiking terrain in the World, Chinook effect in the city, Vancouver as well access to spectacular mountain terrain, rainforest climate. Soccer, baseball & football along with rugby & basketball all very popular. Lacrosse as well though not so much today as it was in the past.
For most of the 50's of you owned a TV in Canada and could not afford a roof antenna you got one station in Toronto and 2 in Montreal ( one English and one French ) and on Saturday night you got hockey.

CBC lost its TV monopoly in 1961 when CTV (English) and what is now TVA (French) went on the air. Cable TV also exploded which gave most Canadians access to US TV and viewers in Toronto could watch local news from Buffalo to see the latest fire in North Tonawanda.

Canadians are more inclined to watch hockey than Americans but today if the local team is eliminated it is not must see TV.

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06-11-2017, 08:47 PM
  #62
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Yes, but again, why should this concern the average hockey fan? At this point, what is there to gain by further growth/expansion to the sport? More money for owners, TV executives, and players...lots of parties with plenty to gain financially, but "fans" are not one of them.

You're asking that question on the Business of Hockey board on the world's largest hockey forum. The regulars here really love to discuss all these topics, as strange as that may sound to everyone else.

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06-11-2017, 09:11 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
For most of the 50's of you owned a TV in Canada and could not afford a roof antenna you got one station in Toronto and 2 in Montreal ( one English and one French ) and on Saturday night you got hockey.

CBC lost its TV monopoly in 1961 when CTV (English) and what is now TVA (French) went on the air. Cable TV also exploded which gave most Canadians access to US TV and viewers in Toronto could watch local news from Buffalo to see the latest fire in North Tonawanda.

Canadians are more inclined to watch hockey than Americans but today if the local team is eliminated it is not must see TV.
.... Seriously, I still dont half wonder sometimes if Buffalo's isnt still burning. Like whoever wrote the building codes way back when was in fact a Pyromaniac of epic proportions. Eyewitness News lead damn nearly every night, "Irv Weinstein with "Another 5 Alarm Fire in".... great station for kids as well with Commander Tom, Adventures of Superman outta Buffalo & yes, you needed an antenna to get WKBW Buffalo. With Rabbit Ears however starting in 1954 you could get CHCH TV 11 Hamilton in Toronto, a CBC affiliate which disaffiliated itself from CBC (CBLT Toronto) in 1961.... also in 61 (I think it was) CFTO TV came on the air and in 64 became a CTV affiliate. So two stations you got clearly absent an antenna, Hamilton "grainy", WKBW Buffalo "ghostly", with an antenna all 4 clearly. For hockey, at least in my household, seriously old school listening to many games on the radio even after getting a TV. CBC radio Toronto covered the Leafs (CBC Montreal the Canadiens, french & english), Foster Hewitt doing the play x play for eons. Believe it or not, considered by many of the era superior to watching it on television. Left more up to the imagination, the play x play & color commentary far more enthusiastic, descriptive, polished, colourful & professional than TV. CBC HNIC Radio picked up in the Northeastern US as well by 10's of 1000's of fans in Boston, NY, Detroit & Chicago on the Skywave network, ratings for games from Maple Leaf Gardens in those cities often beating out the highest rated local stations broadcasting by a considerable margin. Very popular indeed. This all before cable which didnt really hit until the mid-to-late 60's.

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06-11-2017, 09:23 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
In the late 70's SI did a survey and one of the questions was who is your favorite hockey player. Gordie Howe finished 3rd, Bobby Orr finished second.

#1?

It hasn't improved much since then. In 2017 most Americans that are not hockey viewers think TJ Oshie is the best player in the world simply because of the Olympics. At least now the best player is not fictional, that's something.

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06-11-2017, 09:42 PM
  #65
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It hasn't improved much since then. In 2017 most Americans that are not hockey viewers think TJ Oshie is the best player in the world simply because of the Olympics. At least now the best player is not fictional, that's something.
Oh c'mon syc. You dont actually believe that the readers of Sports Illustrated when voting on "best hockey player - Howe, Orr or"...... Paul Newman as Reggie Freakin Dunlop didnt know a joke when they saw it & rather than choosing between Howe & Orr decided "thats funny, Im goin with Reggie"!?!?!.... Ha?.... Do you not know, have any idea just how famous Paul Newman was by the time he'd made Slapshot?... Instantly recognizeable. By 77 when Slapshot was made, he'd won dozens of International Awards, something like 3 Oscars for Best Actor, major major movies like Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, Hud, The Hustler, The Sting, *hctuB Cassidy & the Sundance Kid.... He was as recognizable as Elvis, JFK & the Beatles... HUGE Star. So SI was havin fun. Not to be taken seriously.


Last edited by Killion: 06-11-2017 at 09:47 PM. Reason: *filter circumvention... are you freakin kiddin me?.... and dont you kids do this at home, y'hear?...
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06-11-2017, 10:07 PM
  #66
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You're asking that question on the Business of Hockey board on the world's largest hockey forum. The regulars here really love to discuss all these topics, as strange as that may sound to everyone else.
I understand why people would be interested in discussing topics about growing the game, etc, and curious about what the NHL is/isn't doing when it comes to how they run their business. What I don't understand is the actual concern and perpetual hand-wringing over these issues.

One poster in here seems worried that not enough black people are fans of the NHL. My question is, how does this particular circumstance detrimentally affect your enjoyment of the sport? If a whole bunch of black people (or just more people, period, of any background) suddenly started tuning into games, filling arenas, and buying jerseys, would this somehow enhance the NHL experience for you personally?

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06-11-2017, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
I understand why people would be interested in discussing topics about growing the game, etc, and curious about what the NHL is/isn't doing when it comes to how they run their business. What I don't understand is the actual concern and perpetual hand-wringing over these issues.

One poster in here seems worried that not enough black people are fans of the NHL. My question is, how does this particular circumstance detrimentally affect your enjoyment of the sport? If a whole bunch of black people (or just more people, period, of any background) suddenly started tuning into games, filling arenas, and buying jerseys, would this somehow enhance the NHL experience for you personally?
Because of money. The NHL, from what's stated in the OP, needs to get a younger fanbase.

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06-12-2017, 12:14 AM
  #68
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One of the biggest problems about the NHL is that they are not seen as cool by the upcoming generation for whatever reason. I recently worked at an environment around a lot of college students in their 1st year or 2nd year and a lot of them preferred to watch the NBA and didn't even bother to know much about hockey despite the fact that these are Canadians who have a professional hockey franchise in their backyard.

For whatever reason, they just weren't interested in watching the game, playing the game or even talking about the game. Be it the entertainment factor of the actual sport itself, the lack of iconic mainstream superstars, the relatively low key and boring nature of hockey players or the on screen presentation. Whatever it is, it's a telling sign of what's to come and to those who say it isn't a big deal, it's a big big deal to any and all executives, shareholders of these sporting leagues and TV networks.
Qwerty dear Qwerty there are literally dozens of reasons the fans run from the NHL ...Since you wrote so eloquently in the ratings thread and seem to be a voice of reason ...I must give you this advice .....Forget about it .... its a dead end because the NHL REFUSES to pay for customer acquisition ...at least in my case .....
i will offer three example 1 they dont get the rules they cannot comprehend why players are allowed to punch each other in the face they cannot comprehend the idea of offsides they are looking for a hail o mary or the long breakaway pass ...how the game is played .... 2 they are driven off by us diehard fans ...if we argue with each other saying things like thats stupid or whatever insult who do you think a new fan is going to feel my team even implemented fan ambassadors it was not as successful as it could be due to jealousy rivalry and who are you theory ..3 lets say they take it upon themselves to attend a game .... while i could say most i should say some venues are no places for women and children ..lot of time part time fans think fans are supposed to act like jerks .....
i am as passionate as you on this subject however i am not in a bar looking to play the fame game and get some free gold ( thats an insult to the players and league) so i dont say any growth hacks ....
again the only reason i address you because you put thought into your post looking for a solution try to be amicable and use reason ....so i say again forget about it .....its not a priority until attendance drops if it ever does ...they dont want new fans or younger fans ....
think of it this way mention the Kardashians and 6 people hate them 2 people ask why are they famous but the last two are utterly infatuated .... as long as they pull 1 mil 1 .5 mil viewers it does not matter if anyone else hates them ....God Bless

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06-12-2017, 12:29 AM
  #69
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Because of money. The NHL, from what's stated in the OP, needs to get a younger fanbase.
Do you personally have a financial stake in the NHL? Because all the concerns you raise appear to be concerns that an actual NHL owner/league executive/TV executive should have. From a fan perspective (and I'm assuming you are a fan, not an owner or president of an NHL team), increasing popularity of the NHL more or less just leads to you spending more money for tickets, merchandise, TV packages, etc.

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06-12-2017, 12:39 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
Do you personally have a financial stake in the NHL? Because all the concerns you raise appear to be concerns that an actual NHL owner/league executive/TV executive should have. From a fan perspective (and I'm assuming you are a fan, not an owner or president of an NHL team), increasing popularity of the NHL more or less just leads to you spending more money for tickets, merchandise, TV packages, etc.
The sustainability of the league(and any fan's favorite team) should be the concern of every fan. And some posters are interested in the business aspects as well as the on-ice product. I know I'd rather read about advertising and demographics than a dozen different threads whining about how boring hockey is now.

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06-12-2017, 02:20 AM
  #71
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retention rates need to get factored in. You can lower you age by losing your older fans. I'd imagine the NBA does better attracting younger fans (the swagger and the bling) than the other sports but could well lose more older ones. Meanwhile thank soccer moms for a generation of soccer followers - a relatively new phenomenon.


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06-12-2017, 03:01 AM
  #72
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retention rates need to get factored in. You can lower you age by losing your older fans. I'd imagine the NBA does better attracting younger fans (the swagger and the bling) than the other sports but could well lose more older ones. Meanwhile thank soccer moms for a generation of soccer followers - a relatively new phenomenon.
The Boston Celtics between 1957 and 1969 won 11 titles in 13 seasons. The Boston Bruins between 1970 and 1972 won 2 Cups in 3 years. Which team is more revered today? No contest.




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06-12-2017, 09:55 AM
  #73
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You're the guy who thinks the NHL has no problems.
No hockey fan devoted enough to post on the Business of Hockey section of HFBoards honestly thinks the league has no problems.

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06-12-2017, 09:59 AM
  #74
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The Boston Celtics between 1957 and 1969 won 11 titles in 13 seasons. The Boston Bruins between 1970 and 1972 won 2 Cups in 3 years. Which team is more revered today? No contest.
I've grown up in BC/Alberta here in Canada, and it's the Bruins no contest in my experience (it's the Bruins over the entire NBA combined)

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06-12-2017, 10:18 AM
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The sustainability of the league(and any fan's favorite team) should be the concern of every fan. And some posters are interested in the business aspects as well as the on-ice product. I know I'd rather read about advertising and demographics than a dozen different threads whining about how boring hockey is now.
Is there actually anyone that's concerned for the sustainability of the league ?

I think the NHL could easily lose a third to half the teams without concern for sustainability (it'd be an improvement of the product IMO) - IMO marketing and continuous growth don't connect to the sustainability of the league (they connect to the idea that continuous growth and more "casual fans" are a must, which isn't true IMO.....they're necessary for the players/owners to make more money, but I don't believe they're actually necessary for league sustainability)

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