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Phoenix CXXVIII: The Grass is Always Greener On The Other Side Of The I-17

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Old
06-12-2017, 04:43 PM
  #26
Llama19
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Moore: With a sole owner in place, here's a priority list for the Arizona Coyotes

To quote:

"No. 1 - Get a place to play. Downtown."

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/sport...anc/390405001/

I will let you read the rest...

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06-12-2017, 04:47 PM
  #27
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It's a fine list, but none of those things are going to happen.

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06-12-2017, 04:48 PM
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Assuming there's got to be a new arena for the Coyotes, without chasing rabbits down holes it's almost got to be done in conjunction with the Suns, right?

If they've got market research that says they'd do a lot better downtown and someone has got a few hundred million that can get their hands on, is there any reason there couldn't be a cooperative effort with the Suns and Coyotes?

In other words, if the Coyotes didn't currently exist and Phoenix was all but named as an expansion market (much like Seattle now) the default position would almost have to be that the hockey and basketball teams would share the venue, wouldn't it?

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06-12-2017, 04:55 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BattleBorn View Post
Assuming there's got to be a new arena for the Coyotes, without chasing rabbits down holes it's almost got to be done in conjunction with the Suns, right?

If they've got market research that says they'd do a lot better downtown and someone has got a few hundred million that can get their hands on, is there any reason there couldn't be a cooperative effort with the Suns and Coyotes?

In other words, if the Coyotes didn't currently exist and Phoenix was all but named as an expansion market (much like Seattle now) the default position would almost have to be that the hockey and basketball teams would share the venue, wouldn't it?
The prevailing wisdom here is that the Suns would be hampering themselves financially to get in bed with the Coyotes, losing out on money and valuable concert dates, and Sarver will do anything to avoid this dumpster fire, including holding playing hardball with Phoenix to keep his pseudo-monopoly.

Can't say I blame him.

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06-12-2017, 04:55 PM
  #30
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Assuming there's got to be a new arena for the Coyotes, without chasing rabbits down holes it's almost got to be done in conjunction with the Suns, right?
Do not assume that there will be a new arena for the Coyotes...nor will it be in-conjunction with the Suns...

Quote:
If they've got market research that says they'd do a lot better downtown and someone has got a few hundred million that can get their hands on, is there any reason there couldn't be a cooperative effort with the Suns and Coyotes?
A few hundred million? From where? That will only be from the taxpayers...as such an arena would require a vote...not the sham of the LeBlanc bill that was trying to get support in the State Legislature...

Quote:
In other words, if the Coyotes didn't currently exist and Phoenix was all but named as an expansion market (much like Seattle now) the default position would almost have to be that the hockey and basketball teams would share the venue, wouldn't it?
Nope...

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06-12-2017, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
It's a fine list, but none of those things are going to happen.
... yes, yes its a "fine list".... seed the market.... and you know Tom?.... the best way to garden or farm is to put on some old clothes, broad brimmed hat..... cold drink in one hand, cigarette in the other & tell someone else where to dig, what to plant. Just like that reporter. Only problem is the migrant worker he's talking to has other plans, whole other agenda...... and it doesnt include slaving under an extra crispy Sun in the Sonoran Desert for any longer than maybe one season if that.

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06-12-2017, 05:15 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
Do not assume that there will be a new arena for the Coyotes...nor will it be in-conjunction with the Suns...



A few hundred million? From where? That will only be from the taxpayers...as such an arena would require a vote...not the sham of the LeBlanc bill that was trying to get support in the State Legislature...



Nope...
And a couple of months ago people here were saying Barroway couldn't buy out the minority owners. Things change.

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06-12-2017, 05:25 PM
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And a couple of months ago people here were saying Barroway couldn't buy out the minority owners. Things change.
Well in fairness the thought was buying them out with his own funds. Guess we won't know how leveraged he is.

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06-12-2017, 05:30 PM
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... I dont understand TL.... are you suggesting the NHL owns this club, quite possibly has since 2009 without interruption & that this so called "buyout" is all part of an elaborate smokescreen?... well, whyever would they do that, go to such lengths?
Nope... not suggesting it at all.

But hasn't it been continually suggested in these threads that the league is the real owner?

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06-12-2017, 05:31 PM
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Can Barroway sway him...
Hopefully in the front office and not on the ice.

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06-12-2017, 05:46 PM
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Hopefully in the front office and not on the ice.
I think fans pay to see players play...not to watch front office personnel...

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06-12-2017, 05:50 PM
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I think fans pay to see players play...not to watch front office personnel...
Not what he was referring to... but okay.

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06-12-2017, 06:09 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by BattleBorn View Post
And a couple of months ago people here were saying Barroway couldn't buy out the minority owners. Things change.
Sure. Based on some reasonable cash to financing ratio that the NHL normally demands of any purchaser, entirely reasonable to speculate that no, Barroway unlikely to close based on what little information was then & still is today, almost nothing, complete enigma as to the state of his wherewithal's, financials. That he could come up with the cash to satisfy everyone, the League included.... Well, once again, only this time rather than this purchase being 80% financed as was the case with IA in 2013, its 100% financed, and from what looks like another Fortress type lender, Bank of Last Resort. Short term high interest. The collateral? Not his personal wealth, chattels or collateral, its the franchise's portability in an off-market sale which means that yes, the NHL up to its eyeballs, bacing the loan, facilitating, enabling, guaranteeing. No one here imagined that the NHL would enable, facilitate, agree to such a "purchase" and yet... here we are. I think "we", myself & others who didnt think it possible were absolutely correct because it didnt happen, didnt go down the way things normally would & should have based on precedent, based on common sense, fiscally prudent intelligent design. This is way way way off-road. Off the map. Unprecedented. Clearly Machiavellian & speaks to an agenda, plans that remains hidden. No Press Conference. No questions. No further comments. This deal cant withstand scrutiny, the light of day. Ergo nothing further forthcoming. Buh bye. Go away. As simple as that.

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06-12-2017, 06:40 PM
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Does it cost more to renovate the existing arena downtown (so that it meets the minimum standards of the Suns, Coyotes, and their respective fans) than it would to build a new arena?

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06-12-2017, 07:04 PM
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Does it cost more to renovate the existing arena downtown (so that it meets the minimum standards of the Suns, Coyotes, and their respective fans) than it would to build a new arena?
Not sure, no idea if a studies been commissioned by the City of Phoenix bringing in structural engineers & architects etc as the building was built BB specific.... Like Barclays in Brooklyn or Key in Seattle after all the renovations, rendering it seriously problematical for hockey. Ultimately though, without single ownership of the NBA/NHL Franchise with deep pocketed committed ownership, I cant see it working, potential for another ASG type situation almost inevitable.

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06-12-2017, 07:10 PM
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Does it cost more to renovate the existing arena downtown (so that it meets the minimum standards of the Suns, Coyotes, and their respective fans) than it would to build a new arena?
If we're hitting multiple millions of dollars in pricing no matter what, does it matter?

Like ownership can scrounge up enough money for a 250 million dollar price tag as opposed to a 500 million dollar price tag?

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06-12-2017, 07:18 PM
  #42
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Just a question of cost in terms of total dollars. Is one cheaper than the other by any amount. If it's even a little cheaper to renovate the existing, I could see more buy-in from politicians and tax payers. Especially if it's for both teams, rather than one. It's not a good time to be asking for tax money to build two (or even just one) new arena anywhere, let alone these locations that are kind of on the outskirts (even though not nearly as outskirty as Glendale). If feel like even if it isn't exactly "cost effective" to renovate and makes more logical sense to do a new build, you might have a better shot of securing more public financing if you keep them in the same building the voters already paid for once, and you get both teams in there, and you promise to shut up about sports arenas for another decade or two.

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06-12-2017, 07:20 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Sure. Based on some reasonable cash to financing ratio that the NHL normally demands of any purchaser, entirely reasonable to speculate that no, Barroway unlikely to close based on what little information was then & still is today, almost nothing, complete enigma as to the state of his wherewithal's, financials. That he could come up with the cash to satisfy everyone, the League included.... Well, once again, only this time rather than this purchase being 80% financed as was the case with IA in 2013, its 100% financed, and from what looks like another Fortress type lender, Bank of Last Resort. Short term high interest. The collateral? Not his personal wealth, chattels or collateral, its the franchise's portability in an off-market sale which means that yes, the NHL up to its eyeballs, bacing the loan, facilitating, enabling, guaranteeing. No one here imagined that the NHL would enable, facilitate, agree to such a "purchase" and yet... here we are. I think "we", myself & others who didnt think it possible were absolutely correct because it didnt happen, didnt go down the way things normally would & should have based on precedent, based on common sense, fiscally prudent intelligent design. This is way way way off-road. Off the map. Unprecedented. Clearly Machiavellian & speaks to an agenda, plans that remains hidden. No Press Conference. No questions. No further comments. This deal cant withstand scrutiny, the light of day. Ergo nothing further forthcoming. Buh bye. Go away. As simple as that.
Still no exit interviews for LeBlanc and Drummond, the lame stream media at their best! Hard to believe nobody outside of this forum wants to know what is going on with IA?

If ever anyone wanted to ask about why success has eluded this franchise look no further than why has the press not asked about their sacrosanct ownership?

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06-12-2017, 07:27 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Sure. Based on some reasonable cash to financing ratio that the NHL normally demands of any purchaser, entirely reasonable to speculate that no, Barroway unlikely to close based on what little information was then & still is today, almost nothing, complete enigma as to the state of his wherewithal's, financials. That he could come up with the cash to satisfy everyone, the League included.... Well, once again, only this time rather than this purchase being 80% financed as was the case with IA in 2013, its 100% financed, and from what looks like another Fortress type lender, Bank of Last Resort. Short term high interest. The collateral? Not his personal wealth, chattels or collateral, its the franchise's portability in an off-market sale which means that yes, the NHL up to its eyeballs, bacing the loan, facilitating, enabling, guaranteeing. No one here imagined that the NHL would enable, facilitate, agree to such a "purchase" and yet... here we are. I think "we", myself & others who didnt think it possible were absolutely correct because it didnt happen, didnt go down the way things normally would & should have based on precedent, based on common sense, fiscally prudent intelligent design. This is way way way off-road. Off the map. Unprecedented. Clearly Machiavellian & speaks to an agenda, plans that remains hidden. No Press Conference. No questions. No further comments. This deal cant withstand scrutiny, the light of day. Ergo nothing further forthcoming. Buh bye. Go away. As simple as that.
So...you are saying that in 2013 the NHL was the 80% owner...now, with Barroway, it is 100% owned by the MGG...seems logical...possibly the NHL is still first in line, even after this buyout...franchise is now 100% portable...

However, with no means of financial support...do not see how Barroway stays in the Valley under any conditions/scenarios...

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06-12-2017, 07:30 PM
  #45
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Still no exit interviews for LeBlanc and Drummond, the lame stream media at their best! Hard to believe nobody outside of this forum wants to know what is going on with IA?

If ever anyone wanted to ask about why success has eluded this franchise look no further than why has the press not asked about their sacrosanct ownership?
Im guessin their all under NDA's as part of their buyout packages, not permitted media engagement, social media included as is the case with Barroway & the Coyotes. Messaging all tightly controlled by Big Brother.

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06-12-2017, 07:31 PM
  #46
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If the loan details on here are correct, I can't see the 'yotes staying put after next year.

So that's what 8 years in a row now?

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06-12-2017, 07:31 PM
  #47
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Assuming there's got to be a new arena for the Coyotes, without chasing rabbits down holes it's almost got to be done in conjunction with the Suns, right?

If they've got market research that says they'd do a lot better downtown and someone has got a few hundred million that can get their hands on, is there any reason there couldn't be a cooperative effort with the Suns and Coyotes?
Gonna hang this here - From 2 years ago, almost on the dot

Sarver Talk

Suggest re-reading of the preceding and proceeding pages for those who don't remember the discussions back then

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06-12-2017, 07:32 PM
  #48
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Still no exit interviews for LeBlanc and Drummond, the lame stream media at their best! Hard to believe nobody outside of this forum wants to know what is going on with IA?
Oh...I am sure they ask...just get stonewalled...no comment...see Daly's statement...

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If ever anyone wanted to ask about why success has eluded this franchise look no further than why has the press not asked about their sacrosanct ownership?
Ownership is an mirage, apparently, here in the desert...

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06-12-2017, 07:36 PM
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Gonna hang this here - From 2 years ago, almost on the dot

Sarver Talk

Suggest re-reading of the preceding and proceeding pages for those who don't remember the discussions back then
Yes...thanks for the details...we all seem to be reaching similar conclusions...does not work...will not work...

Sarver, in this case, does hold the upper hand...

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06-12-2017, 07:38 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
Gonna hang this here - From 2 years ago, almost on the dot

Sarver Talk

Suggest re-reading of the preceding and proceeding pages for those who don't remember the discussions back then
Has the Coyotes effort in the state assembly and the Diamondbacks efforts to do whatever they're trying to do with BOB in addition to the ever present anti-public funding crowd done anything to change the chances of the Suns getting any money for their new place?

If that whole thing is done and someone comes with a team/tenant and $100MM (Coyotes) is there any reason to assume it couldn't end with a shared arena? We know that the Suns kind of have the love of the Phoenix city government, but can Phoenix actually come through with a decent amount of assistance at this point or are the Suns going to have the go fully private if they make a move in the next few years?

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