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Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2016-17 Part XXIII

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Old
06-13-2017, 07:44 PM
  #26
cgf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJungleHunter View Post
Preds fan here. Been lurking on your boards because I'm hopeful that our two teams might make a nice trade over Duchene, and I've been watching for juicy news.

I see that there is also discussion about trading defenseman Tyson Barrie, as well, which I find intriguing.

What would the Preds need to give up for a Duchene + Barrie trade? One of Ellis or Ekholm + Fabbro + 2017 1st round pick? I imagine that may be too low, so what else could the Preds offer to make that a fair deal?

I've always sorta liked the Avs, so I hope you guys can bounce back next season (except against the Preds, of course).

I wasn't ready for the Preds season to end like it did, and now I'm addicted to any kind of hockey news to satiate me until the drafts. A nice blockbuster trade would be nice.
I'd want Ekholm + Fiala + Kamenev and a 1st (preferably Fabbro but I could be talked down to a 1st with this piece) for both.

But I don't really think the avs should trade Barrie yet unless we bring in Faulk or can get back a forward like Drouin or Nylander. Depending on how things go I can see moving him next summer; when he's had a full offseason for Bednar to figure out how to let Barrie be Barrie; when Zadorov is more established, Meloche is breaking into the lineup, Bigras has earned his spot, and whoever we pick/trade for this summer is a year more developed.

Ultimately; I don't expect Joe to do enough wheeling and dealing for it to make sense for us to trade Barrie this summer...unless it's a single blockbuster like I proposed above; or if Tampa calls Joe about a Drouin-Barrie swap that re-unites MacK with his soulmate (whom our organization has tried to trade for before).


Last edited by cgf; 06-13-2017 at 07:50 PM..
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Old
06-13-2017, 07:54 PM
  #27
Pierce Hawthorne
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I think Ellis might actually be the one I prefer out of Nashville over Ekholm. Huge fan of both, but I think Ellis would be a better fit for this team going forward. We desperately need a good hard shot for our PP and Ellis would bring that. Ekholm brings that solid shut down defense along with a great first pass, but I feel like between EJ and Zads we're pretty solid defensively in our Top 4, but need more help in the offensive zone and transition game which I feel favors Ellis more. Also why I like CDH more than Hamonic from the Islanders(Along with being younger).

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06-13-2017, 07:58 PM
  #28
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Preds aren't going to trade Ekholm or Ellis. They know what they have in their top 4.

If Duchene is going there it's for mostly prospects and picks. Perhaps something like Craig Smith added if some salary has to go the other way.

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06-13-2017, 08:07 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Preds aren't going to trade Ekholm or Ellis. They know what they have in their top 4.

If Duchene is going there it's for mostly prospects and picks. Perhaps something like Craig Smith added if some salary has to go the other way.
I agree.


They're actually the team I want to see Duchene traded to the most. I think a package of Fiala + Fabbro + 1st + Smith(Salary reasons) would be a pretty good deal for us as I am pretty high on Fabbro and Fiala(Especially Fiala). I think that package is better than the one NYI was rumored to offer(Pullock + Barzal + 1st) and the CBJ offer(Murray + Milano + 1st) that's been discussed a lot before.

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06-13-2017, 08:12 PM
  #30
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Plus Duchene would sign in Nashville so quickly.

Fabbro, fiala/Kamenev, 1st + cap + Fenton for Duchene.


Last edited by lonelybadger; 06-13-2017 at 08:19 PM..
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06-13-2017, 08:23 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lonelybadger View Post
Plus Duchene would sign in Nashville so quickly.

Fabbro, fiala/Kamenev, 1st + cap + Fenton for Duchene.
Who is "Fenton?"

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06-13-2017, 08:24 PM
  #32
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Who is "Fenton?"
Predators assistant gm

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Old
06-13-2017, 08:28 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by lonelybadger View Post
Predators assistant gm
Sorry...I didn't realize he was available for trade...

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Old
06-13-2017, 08:50 PM
  #34
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If it's Preds or Sens I want the pick to be 2018. Take my bets there. Isles I'm good with 15 but wouldn't be too against 2018 either (more the merrier for the potential lottery).

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Old
06-13-2017, 09:14 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Preds aren't going to trade Ekholm or Ellis. They know what they have in their top 4.

If Duchene is going there it's for mostly prospects and picks. Perhaps something like Craig Smith added if some salary has to go the other way.
My thoughts to. IMO the ideal Nashville trade is Fiala + Kamenev + Fabbro for Duchene (retained); with us trying to squeeze a pick out of them for retaining on Dutchy and by adding something on our end if we have a depth piece they want (Pickard? Morrison?). But the Nashville fan suggested adding Barrie for one of their non-Subban/Josi dmen, so I was just running with that.

If we could do the Duchene trade I proposed, I'd rather do that and move Barrie separately...which could free us to move Landeskog for a potential top pairing guy to replace EJ (Manson?), or maybe even let us throw a Landy + EJ package at STL for Parayko + cap dump?...either of which would let us gamble on Makar/Liljegren if Heiskanen goes in the top 3.

Dream scenario Youth roster:

Drouin - MacKinnon - Fiala*
Kamenev* - Jost - Rantanen
Greer - Compher - Morrison
Nantel - Beaudin - Nieto/Henley

Heiskanen - Parayko
Zadorov - Fabbro*
Bigras - Meloche*
Mironov | Lindholm | Boikov

Martin
Pickard
Werner


Last edited by cgf; 06-14-2017 at 01:55 AM..
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Old
06-13-2017, 09:56 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf View Post
My thoughts to. IMO the ideal Nashville trade is Fiala + Kamenev + Fabbro for Duchene (retained); with us trying to squeeze a pick out of them for retaining on Dutchy and by adding something on our end if we have a depth piece they want (Pickard? Morrison?). But the Nashville fan suggested adding Barrie for one of their non-Subban/Josi dmen, so I was just running with that.

If we could do the Duchene trade I proposed, I'd rather do that and move Barrie separately...which could free us to move Landeskog for a potential top pairing guy to replace EJ (Manson?), or maybe even let us throw a Landy + EJ package at STL for Parayko + cap dump?...either of which would let us gamble on Makar/Liljegren if Heiskanen goes in the top 3.

Dream scenario Youth roster:

Drouin - MacKinnon - Fiala*
Kamenev* - Jost - Rantanen
Greer - Compher - Morrison
Nantel - Beaudin - Nieto/Henley

Heiskanen - Parayko
Zadorov - Meloche*
2017 2nd - Fabbro*
Mironov | Lindholm | Boikov

Martin
Pickard
Werner
I can dig it.

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Old
06-14-2017, 12:22 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf View Post
My thoughts to. IMO the ideal Nashville trade is Fiala + Kamenev + Fabbro for Duchene (retained); with us trying to squeeze a pick out of them for retaining on Dutchy and by adding something on our end if we have a depth piece they want (Pickard? Morrison?). But the Nashville fan suggested adding Barrie for one of their non-Subban/Josi dmen, so I was just running with that.

If we could do the Duchene trade I proposed, I'd rather do that and move Barrie separately...which could free us to move Landeskog for a potential top pairing guy to replace EJ (Manson?), or maybe even let us throw a Landy + EJ package at STL for Parayko + cap dump?...either of which would let us gamble on Makar/Liljegren if Heiskanen goes in the top 3.

Dream scenario Youth roster:

Drouin - MacKinnon - Fiala*
Kamenev* - Jost - Rantanen
Greer - Compher - Morrison
Nantel - Beaudin - Nieto/Henley

Heiskanen - Parayko
Zadorov - Meloche*
2017 2nd - Fabbro*
Mironov | Lindholm | Boikov

Martin
Pickard
Werner
This line-up is for like 2 or 3 years in the future, right?

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Old
06-14-2017, 12:53 AM
  #38
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Yeah I would be really pissed with those Duchene+ Barrie NSH deals...

I like Ekholm but IMO he is a bit overrated right now. Don't think he can be a #1 D on a good team. Probably a #2 but I am not that sure about it (atleast not on a cup contender).

I am not giving up our best two trade chips right now for a 27 year old #2/3 D (a very good #2/3 but still)+ a few pretty good prospects...

If I trade Duchene + Barrie in a paackage deal, I expect a younger , established D with more upside than Ekholm in return + a few prospects/picks on a similar level than what is offered in here. The only reason to trade them both instead of maximizing their value by trading them individually is if we get the perfect centerpiece in return. Which we really don't at all in this deal.

In general I think packaging two of Duchene/Landeskog/Barrie together is a terrible idea and will really backfire unless someone really gives up the farm which this deal isn't.

Especially if we are talking about a team in the division...

IMO people will be surprised what Barrie might be able to fetch right now if he indeed does get traded.

Atleast that is the only way I would pull the trigger on him. The market for Ds might be artificially devalued right now because of the expansion draft.

If that is the case, you keep Barrie for another year and take advantage of the usual Dmen shortage of available Ds next offseason..


That said:

As I stated on the main board.

Duchene for Fiala, Kamenev and Fabbro is a deal I would be willing to do. Keep your top4. Keep your picks (especially the 2017 1st which is basically a 2nd). NSH will simply be way too good with Duchene in the fold next season to interest me all that much. I might consider the 2018 1st instead of Kamenev but honestly probably not worth it...


Last edited by JoemAvs; 06-14-2017 at 05:57 AM..
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Old
06-14-2017, 01:36 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf View Post
My thoughts to. IMO the ideal Nashville trade is Fiala + Kamenev + Fabbro for Duchene (retained); with us trying to squeeze a pick out of them for retaining on Dutchy and by adding something on our end if we have a depth piece they want (Pickard? Morrison?). But the Nashville fan suggested adding Barrie for one of their non-Subban/Josi dmen, so I was just running with that.

If we could do the Duchene trade I proposed, I'd rather do that and move Barrie separately...which could free us to move Landeskog for a potential top pairing guy to replace EJ (Manson?), or maybe even let us throw a Landy + EJ package at STL for Parayko + cap dump?...either of which would let us gamble on Makar/Liljegren if Heiskanen goes in the top 3.

Dream scenario Youth roster:

Drouin - MacKinnon - Fiala*
Kamenev* - Jost - Rantanen
Greer - Compher - Morrison
Nantel - Beaudin - Nieto/Henley

Heiskanen - Parayko
Zadorov - Meloche*
2017 2nd - Fabbro*
Mironov | Lindholm | Boikov

Martin
Pickard
Werner
My never going to happen dream scenario
Nieto+Butcher rights for Perron
Duchene(50 retained)+Morrison for Dubois+Murray
Grigorenko to Mtl for a pick(maybe 2018 3rd)

Next year
Andrighetto-Mackinnon-Rantanen
Landeskog-Dubois-Compher
Greer-Soderberg-Comeau
FA-Henley-FA
Colborne

Zadorov-EJ
Murray-Barrie
Bigras-Mironov
Siemens/Lindholm

Varlamov
Pickard

Barberio claimed by Vegas and Jost starts in the AHL. Called up around All-star break

Future
Jost-Mackinnon-Rantanen
Landeskog-Dubois/Glass-Dubois/Glass
Greer-Beaudin-Perron
Nantel-Compher-Barron/future pick

Zadorov-2018 1st
Murray-Meloche
Bigras-2017 2nd
Mironov

Martin/Pickard/future pick

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Old
06-14-2017, 01:38 AM
  #40
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You're retaining 50% on Matt Duchene I sure as hell better be getting more from the Jackets than that.

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Old
06-14-2017, 01:52 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hughdreamz View Post
This line-up is for like 2 or 3 years in the future, right?
Those kids wouldn't be ready to kill in those roles, but most should be ready to at least start learning on the job in those roles within the next year or two. From there they'd need another year or two of growing together before being ready to make some real noise.

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06-14-2017, 01:58 AM
  #42
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I keep thinking of all these dream line-ups. I keep thinking Joe will surprise and make moves at the draft. But then I think about how reactive we are as a club, and think our team will be more along the lines of:

Landeskog - Mackinnon - Andrighetto
Comeau - Jost - Rantanen
XXXXXXX - Compher - Colborne
Nieto - Soderberg - XXXXXXXX
(Greer, Grimaldi)

Zadorov - Johnson
Barberio - Barrie
Lindholm - Mirinov
(Beauchemin)

Varlamov
Pickard

+ Assume the fruits of Duchene's trade is in there somewhere (but maybe not next season)

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Old
06-14-2017, 02:14 AM
  #43
cgf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
In general I think packaging two of Duchene/Landeskog/Barrie together is a terrible idea and will really backfire unless someone really gives up the farm which this deal isn't.
In general I agree. The only trades I really like that involve more than 1 core player are EJ + Duchene/Landeskog for Parayko + cap dump + pick(s)/prospect(s).

Or the half joking blockbuster I've proposed for Carolina; Duchene + Landeskog + Barrie/EJ + Pickard <---> Faulk + Hanifin + Gauthier + #12 OA + 2nd/3rd rounder + Lack. And that I'd only do because I still love Gauthier; because it would give us both a current #1 who can replace EJ (Faulk); and a future #1 for when Faulk starts slowing down, who has an even higher ceiling (Hanifin); we pick up an extra 1st pick; and a 2nd we can try to push to be replaced by a prospect like Roy if we retain on Duchene. With Slavin-Pesce, Barrie, and their defensive prospects that Carolina blue line should remain a strength moving forward; Picks & Darling could be a solid duoin goal; and with Landy & Dutchy joining their forward core they would have the talent up front to make a serious playoff push.

Plus we could follow it up with an EJ/Barrie for Drouin + cap dump trade because of Faulk's arrival. Leaving a lineup of something like this in a few years:

Drouin - MacK - Gauthier
Vilardi* - Jost - Rantanen
AJG - Compher - Morrison
Nantel - Beaudin - Henley
Nieto

Hanifin - Faulk
Zads - Meloche
Bigras - Foote*
Mironov | Lindholm | Boikov

*Vilardi & Foote are just stand ins for #4 & #12

And we'd have the option to swap Rantanen / #4 with Greer / Morrison, to have those three balanced lines that gave us such an advantage in 2014 as we'd have 3 playmaking wingers to match with one of our centers and a middle-6 caliber PF...with Gauthier being a legit top 6 PF prospect who could score a ton of goals next to Drouin-MacKinnon.


Last edited by cgf; 06-14-2017 at 02:24 AM..
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Old
06-14-2017, 07:02 AM
  #44
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I wonder if Avs will make a trade before the temporary trade freeze starts on the 17th. Otherwise they have to wait until after the expansion draft.

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06-14-2017, 07:07 AM
  #45
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I wonder if Avs will make a trade before the temporary trade freeze starts on the 17th. Otherwise they have to wait until after the expansion draft.
Ooh! Some teams will!

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Old
06-14-2017, 07:10 AM
  #46
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I wonder if Avs will make a trade before the temporary trade freeze starts on the 17th. Otherwise they have to wait until after the expansion draft.
I don't see it being a major priority. Avs have no expansion issues. This week is more important for teams such as Minnesota, Anaheim and NYI. Sakic needs to do his due diligence and make a few calls but unless a team gets desperate and is willing to trade a young D for very little I don't anticipate anything happening.

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06-14-2017, 07:19 AM
  #47
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If Sakic were a good GM, he would pawn off Pickard to Calgary or someone else for a 2nd rounder...


So what I am saying is that nothing will happen IMO before the trade freeze....

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06-14-2017, 07:23 AM
  #48
Cousin Eddie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
If Sakic were a good GM, he would pawn off Pickard to Calgary or someone else for a 2nd rounder...


So what I am saying is that nothing will happen IMO before the trade freeze....
As nice as that sounds, it's tough to trade players for more than they're worth regardless of how good you are at your job. Especially when it's obvious your back is against the wall and there are other, better goalies available who likely can go for cheap as well.

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06-14-2017, 07:27 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
If Sakic were a good GM, he would pawn off Pickard to Calgary or someone else for a 2nd rounder...


So what I am saying is that nothing will happen IMO before the trade freeze....
Perhaps no team is willing to pay a 2nd for a "meh" goalie. You seem to forget, it takes two GM's to make a deal.

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06-14-2017, 07:44 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Preds aren't going to trade Ekholm or Ellis. They know what they have in their top 4.
Not only is that Top 4 really good, 3 of them are on incredible contracts. Over the next two seasons, Josi/Eckholm/Ellis are making under $10M combined, if I remember correctly.

Nashville has a nice 2 year window here, as long as their goaltending holds up.

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