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the bruins loooooong road ahead.

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Old
03-28-2006, 09:47 AM
  #1
gojt
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the bruins loooooong road ahead.

((sorry this one's a couple days late all but, work had to come first)).

how's it going everybody?

all I can say is;

FINALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY.

Finally the lousy crap ******* of o'connell is gonnnnnnnnnnnne.

still only one BIG problem though (other than the jacobs and sinden). the damage has been done thanks to o'connell and his backing by the jacobs and sinden. a historic franchise is in complete disarray with nothing to forward to.

With the likes of Guerin, Mclaren, Rolston, Knuble, Samsonov Scatchard and
most importantly Thornton are all gone (and Boynton and Gill likely to leave). Whom do they look to build around now? And nobody than Toronto fans know better of how long it takes in reality to build a contender--especially with nobody to build around as in Bostons case right now. NOTHING. oh yeah, some media and fans in boston think we can build around bergeron and sturm and the other primeau and maybe sign 5-10 super free agents in the future making us super contenders. well, ain't gonna happen.

upper management & ownership waited FAR too long in Boston to do
anything to o'connel. ((did sindens look to you on Saturday look as
dumbfounded as many times in the past--as if stupidly and aplogetically trying
to make it look as though that everything will work itself out in the
end--like all those other times in the past 30 years they've made stupid
mistakes and try to later rectify)).

the next virus in Boston that has to be rectified before things truly
improve--sinden to be kissed bye bye and the jacobs to go to night
school to learn how a hockey team is truly run and built.

so bruins fans, let's look forward to a; LONNNNNNNNNNNNNG, FRUSTRATING AND
DIFFICULT RE-BUILDING PERIOD. Who knows, maybe by the time we are actually
contenders again, the jacobs father and son clown duo will be
retired!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

((some boston fans in beantown think they are the only TRUE boston fans and have the only right to speak true of them--NOT. some of us have travelled from many miles to see the bruins, not just a couple blocks away. especially in times and respect of the great Raymond Bourque-the 2nd greatest defenceman of all time. not much worthwhile at this time though));

Talk to you all soon.

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Old
03-28-2006, 09:48 AM
  #2
Backin72
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3-5 year rebuild..........again.

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03-28-2006, 09:52 AM
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Funny how you trade an almost untradeable player and your best UFA and all of a sudden whoops, where'd my team go? It's a shame and I really feel for Bruins fans.

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03-28-2006, 09:55 AM
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It's hard to believe they won the division last season, with decent Ottawa, Toronto and Montreal teams around as well. Even Buffalo was showing signs of being playoff ready last season.

Talk about your paradigm shift.

They've got some good pieces to build around, it may just take awhile or require extremely insightful free agent pick-ups.

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03-28-2006, 10:24 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil
It's hard to believe they won the division last season, with decent Ottawa, Toronto and Montreal teams around as well. Even Buffalo was showing signs of being playoff ready last season.

Talk about your paradigm shift.

They've got some good pieces to build around, it may just take awhile or require extremely insightful free agent pick-ups.
The biggest issue I have with the Bruins is Zhamnov's contract. Without that contract on the books, Boston would be a decent 2nd line center signing away from being back in play-off contention IMO.

Positives:
1) Very solid young #1 line
2) A very young blueline with a ton of potential (Stuart, Boynton, Jurcina, Alberts, M. Stuart, sign one decent vet here to replace Leetch/Gill/Slegr)
3) I really like the Toivonen/Thomas combinatation in net
4) Raycroft is a decent asset to either move up in the draft or acquire a relatively inexpensive 2nd line center
5) Should end up with a top 8-10 pick in the draft, which should give them a quality prospect
6) Already signed Axelsson for 3 years - great signing IMO

Negatives:
1) Very young team
2) Zhamnov's contract (maybe buy him out in the off-season?)
3) Lack of production after 1st line

Am I crazy to think that if they could get a decent 2nd line center that generates some chemistry with Murray that they could make the play-off's next year? It would also take Toivonen (and the team in general) to stay healthy and continue developing, but it's not likely there no light at the end of the tunnel.

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Old
03-28-2006, 10:58 AM
  #6
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or you can hope o'connell gets hired by San Jose and trade Thornton back to Boston to redeem himself

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03-28-2006, 12:37 PM
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I don't think a dramatic rebuild is in order, roster-wise. Just add a vet or two at forward for next season. I really think the Bruins will surprise people next year. I predict a 90+ point season...












And a first round playoff sweep

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03-28-2006, 01:05 PM
  #8
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You've got Toivonen and Bergeron. A couple of decent young nhlers in the lineup already. Clear cap room and cut dead wood as best you can. Draft a stud center with that high pick you will get. And sign a dominant defenseman.

It's not as terrible a rebuild when you have a potential franchise goalie already in the house. Trust me.

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Old
03-28-2006, 01:12 PM
  #9
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This was supposed to be the apex of the rebuilding that this team started in 1997. This was when we were supposed to start being cup contenders. Instead, we get to start another long rebuildng process around another group of players that'll probably just end up gone right before they hit their peak. Its called Bruins.

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03-28-2006, 01:23 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dafoomie
This was supposed to be the apex of the rebuilding that this team started in 1997. This was when we were supposed to start being cup contenders. Instead, we get to start another long rebuildng process around another group of players that'll probably just end up gone right before they hit their peak. Its called Bruins.
As a Hawks fan, I'm not trying to be a ***** and rub it in, but how many rebuilding processes actually turn into a Stanley Cup? Pretty damn few, so I don't think it's fair to toss the last 5 seasons in the crapper because the Bruins didn't win the Cup.

I think they had a pretty good team for the 3-4 years before the lock-out. They were making the P/O's, but were not able to get over the hump because their best players didn't show up. I wouldn't necessarily ***** about moving those guys out until they do something in the P/O's. JT can win the scoring title, but unless he delivers in the post-season, all's he doing is tying up cap room and dragging the team down.

Watched the game last night, and the announcers were talking about Bergeron's explosion since the trade. Before the trade, he was .5ppg, and after the trade he was over 1ppg.

Hopefully the new Bruins GM can build around a very solid core. Not very many rebuilding teams have a core of a legit #1C, #1 d-man, & potentially elite #1 goalie. There are definetely some holes, and a couple of bad contracts to deal with, but the core is definetely there if they can keep it together.

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Old
03-28-2006, 01:27 PM
  #11
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partial agreement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan
The biggest issue I have with the Bruins is Zhamnov's contract. Without that contract on the books, Boston would be a decent 2nd line center signing away from being back in play-off contention IMO.

Positives:
1) Very solid young #1 line
2) A very young blueline with a ton of potential (Stuart, Boynton, Jurcina, Alberts, M. Stuart, sign one decent vet here to replace Leetch/Gill/Slegr)
3) I really like the Toivonen/Thomas combinatation in net
4) Raycroft is a decent asset to either move up in the draft or acquire a relatively inexpensive 2nd line center
5) Should end up with a top 8-10 pick in the draft, which should give them a quality prospect
6) Already signed Axelsson for 3 years - great signing IMO

Negatives:
1) Very young team
2) Zhamnov's contract (maybe buy him out in the off-season?)
3) Lack of production after 1st line

Am I crazy to think that if they could get a decent 2nd line center that generates some chemistry with Murray that they could make the play-off's next year? It would also take Toivonen (and the team in general) to stay healthy and continue developing, but it's not likely there no light at the end of the tunnel.
To a point I do agree with you, they do have some good young players, like most teams in hockey. (I really like Alberts, cannot let him go. Bergeron, Sturm, Toivonen, Thomas and Axelsson are must stays. The team may lose Stuart in the summer, maybe. Boynton and Gill MAYleave, both very upset on the Thornton move. Murray DEFINATELY wants out. Jurcina is alright but nothing great or solid or consistent. Leetch is solid but, his days are close to done. Not much else are worth much in holding onto.

I know your distaste for Zhamnov but, let us not forget about the disaster that is isbister, green and fitzgerald. all supposed to have brought much needed scoring with some very agressive play. the team could have gotten more out of lapointe if they kept him in place of all those three guys. did not on the boston website earlier this year, oconnell and sullivan make some very big praises about lacatoure? tanabe has gotta go to. i think i'll hold off on mentioning many others.

Makes for some MAJOR rebuilding and, an obvious long road to any contention at all.

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Old
03-28-2006, 01:29 PM
  #12
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true true

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcccdmn
or you can hope o'connell gets hired by San Jose and trade Thornton back to Boston to redeem himself
that is the idea of the day. one can only hope....or dream...or wish.

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Old
03-28-2006, 01:40 PM
  #13
dafoomie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan
As a Hawks fan, I'm not trying to be a ***** and rub it in, but how many rebuilding processes actually turn into a Stanley Cup? Pretty damn few, so I don't think it's fair to toss the last 5 seasons in the crapper because the Bruins didn't win the Cup.
Quebec/Colorado wrote the book on it. The thing is, a rebuilding process can work if you're actually interested in winning a cup at some point.

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Old
03-28-2006, 01:56 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dafoomie
Quebec/Colorado wrote the book on it. The thing is, a rebuilding process can work if you're actually interested in winning a cup at some point.
I agree that Nords/Avs are a textbook case for a rebuild - but they were worst team in the league for a heck of a lot longer than the Bruins were bad, and they also ***** MON in the Roy trade.

I agree that if there isn't the commitment from the organization, the team is doomed to mediocrity. (Again - see the Chicago Blackhawks.)

I just think that BOS has a hell of a lot more good young assets than most other teams that I would consider "rebuilding". A couple of good reclamation project signings and they're right back in the P/O's IMO.

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Old
03-28-2006, 02:00 PM
  #15
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You

Don't

Trade

Joe

Thornton

O'connell should've been fired before being allowed to make such a stupid deal. He didn't even get any high picks.

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Old
03-28-2006, 02:02 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gojt
To a point I do agree with you, they do have some good young players, like most teams in hockey. (I really like Alberts, cannot let him go. Bergeron, Sturm, Toivonen, Thomas and Axelsson are must stays. The team may lose Stuart in the summer, maybe. Boynton and Gill MAYleave, both very upset on the Thornton move. Murray DEFINATELY wants out. Jurcina is alright but nothing great or solid or consistent. Leetch is solid but, his days are close to done. Not much else are worth much in holding onto.

I know your distaste for Zhamnov but, let us not forget about the disaster that is isbister, green and fitzgerald. all supposed to have brought much needed scoring with some very agressive play. the team could have gotten more out of lapointe if they kept him in place of all those three guys. did not on the boston website earlier this year, oconnell and sullivan make some very big praises about lacatoure? tanabe has gotta go to. i think i'll hold off on mentioning many others.

Makes for some MAJOR rebuilding and, an obvious long road to any contention at all.
1) I am pretty sure that both B Stuart and Boynton are both RFA's in the off-season. If I'm the new GM, I'm trying to lock them both up long term.
2) Isbister, Green & Fitgerald were all long-shots that can be replaced. I don't think that any one of them are under contract for next year, so they can be shuffled along pretty easily.
3) If Murray wants out - maybe he should play better so the team has a chance to move him. He should be pissed about the JT trade, as he should of been kicking Joe 50% of his insane UFA deal. Unfortunately, the Bruins couldn't give Murray away at this point, so I think their only option is try and acquire a 2nd line playmaking center that can feed him the puck. A guy like Nylander would be perfect if the Rangers only signed him to a one year contract.
4) Who cares what Hal flipping Gill thinks about the JT trade - let him become a UFA and move on. Sign one good UFA d-man and the blueline is nails IMO.

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03-28-2006, 02:26 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan
I agree that Nords/Avs are a textbook case for a rebuild - but they were worst team in the league for a heck of a lot longer than the Bruins were bad, and they also ***** MON in the Roy trade.

I agree that if there isn't the commitment from the organization, the team is doomed to mediocrity. (Again - see the Chicago Blackhawks.)

I just think that BOS has a hell of a lot more good young assets than most other teams that I would consider "rebuilding". A couple of good reclamation project signings and they're right back in the P/O's IMO.
A-the Nords/Avs built with high 1st round draft picks, not the case in Boston.
B-what has the habs won after Roy?
C-the young assets you mention Boston does have, yes they have some very good ones but, many teams do. even here in Toronto, though a few less than beantown.
D-the Nords/Avs built with high 1st round draft picks, not the case in Boston, or Chicago.
E-Boston has become the "montreal expos" of the hockey world--"good youth in the minors and in development with some solid verterans, when we get the chance, let's move them".
way to go sinden.
at least o'connel is gone.

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03-28-2006, 03:07 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gojt
C-the young assets you mention Boston does have, yes they have some very good ones but, many teams do. even here in Toronto, though a few less than beantown.

E-Boston has become the "montreal expos" of the hockey world--"good youth in the minors and in development with some solid verterans, when we get the chance, let's move them".
way to go sinden.
at least o'connel is gone.
My point on the young players in BOS - they are young and producing NOW. The Bruins have a legit #1C (Bergeron-20YO), a legit #1 d-man (B Stuart- 25YO), and a potentially elite #1 goalie (Hannu-22 YO). Add in other very good young players like Boyes, Sturm, Boynton, M Stuart, Alberts, Jurcina, and there are a lot of building blocks that are contributing at the NHL level right now. They definetely have some major issues (secondary scoring, team defense w/ a young blueline, etc), but it's not likely they're rebuilding from scratch.

I don't see the Expo's comparison. However you see the Thornton trade, I look at it like the Bruins didn't feel like Joe could lead them in the P/O's. If they were right - it was better to move him than build around him. You could make a very strong case that the return should of been better, but they moved him based on their talent evaluation, and not because they couldn't afford him. Same thing with SS - he was underperforming this year, and the Bruins wanted to get something for a guy they didn't think they would resign based on his perceived market value. Again - a deal based on their player evaluation and not based on their ability to pay Samsonov.

You can say the Bruins are a BAD organization, and I would have to agree. I think the Bruins and the Hawks are cursed because the example set by ownership (Jacobs & Wirtz) and their puppets (Sinden & Pullford) doom the organization to failure. I just don't think that it's necessarily gloom and doom based on the Bruins current roster if they if they can change the attitude of the franchise.

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03-29-2006, 08:31 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan
My point on the young players in BOS - they are young and producing NOW. The Bruins have a legit #1C (Bergeron-20YO), a legit #1 d-man (B Stuart- 25YO), and a potentially elite #1 goalie (Hannu-22 YO). Add in other very good young players like Boyes, Sturm, Boynton, M Stuart, Alberts, Jurcina, and there are a lot of building blocks that are contributing at the NHL level right now. They definetely have some major issues (secondary scoring, team defense w/ a young blueline, etc), but it's not likely they're rebuilding from scratch.

I don't see the Expo's comparison. However you see the Thornton trade, I look at it like the Bruins didn't feel like Joe could lead them in the P/O's. If they were right - it was better to move him than build around him. You could make a very strong case that the return should of been better, but they moved him based on their talent evaluation, and not because they couldn't afford him. Same thing with SS - he was underperforming this year, and the Bruins wanted to get something for a guy they didn't think they would resign based on his perceived market value. Again - a deal based on their player evaluation and not based on their ability to pay Samsonov.

You can say the Bruins are a BAD organization, and I would have to agree. I think the Bruins and the Hawks are cursed because the example set by ownership (Jacobs & Wirtz) and their puppets (Sinden & Pullford) doom the organization to failure. I just don't think that it's necessarily gloom and doom based on the Bruins current roster if they if they can change the attitude of the franchise.
your closing paragraph sums much of it for my thoughts on them as well. UNTIL, something upstairs to coincide with the o'connel dumping changes (hint-sinden and/or the jacobs pulling away quite a bit), the bruins even with some of the very good young players they have now, will always remain status quo. remember in the last 10-15 years, before the Thornton era the last time they were anywhere to being competitive was when they brought Mr. Bourque (the 2nd greatest defenceman of all time) some help in the likes of the great Cam Neely. They've always had some very good young talent, Janney, Juneau, Carter, Allison, Murray, Heinz and so on and so on BUT, sinden and the lousy jacobs wouldn't do what was required and, go out and get the little added edge they needed to go over the hump. always got some drifters thinking, that'll do but it never did. aka, o'connel was a carbon copy of sinden.

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Old
03-29-2006, 09:37 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxAeterna
I don't think a dramatic rebuild is in order, roster-wise. Just add a vet or two at forward for next season. I really think the Bruins will surprise people next year. I predict a 90+ point season...












And a first round playoff sweep
Love the avatar.

As a habs fan I can't say I feel sorry for the Bruins to the point of actually caring, but if I were a B's fan (God forbid) I would be EXTREMELY bitter about having traded the team's franchise away (Thornton) and not getting anything definite in return to build on. Sturm and Primeau are good guys and talented for sure... but I can't see a franchise being built around either of these two. (Didn't count Stuart because I think he's an UFA in July.. I could be wrong)

Not an NHL team anyway.

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03-29-2006, 10:06 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by JoseTheo
Love the avatar.

As a habs fan I can't say I feel sorry for the Bruins to the point of actually caring, but if I were a B's fan (God forbid) I would be EXTREMELY bitter about having traded the team's franchise away (Thornton) and not getting anything definite in return to build on. Sturm and Primeau are good guys and talented for sure... but I can't see a franchise being built around either of these two. (Didn't count Stuart because I think he's an UFA in July.. I could be wrong)

Not an NHL team anyway.
1) Stuart is a RFA in July, and if he can be locked up long term, I would definetely consider him a guy that you can build a blue-line around.
2) From a Habs fan, how would you evaluate JT's performance against the Habs the last two play-off series?

The only potential saving grace for the Thornton deal for me is if the Bruins organization felt that JT wasn't a guy that could lead the team in the play-off's. When you commit $6M to a player, he needs to be a guy that will deliver the goods in the play-off's, because you are building around him. I think that the "sample size" of JT's play-off performance is too small to say that he is going to fold when the games become even more important. However, I don't work with JT on a daily basis (and no one here does either), and the Bruins do. The only thing that I can think of is that the Bruins felt that JT wasn't going to be a team leader, which they felt they needed if they were paying him that much money.

JT had a no-trade clause that kicked in very soon, and if the Bruins didn't trade him before that, they were committed to him for a long period of time.

I'm not trying to justify the trade, just give a reason why the Bruins might of made the deal.

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03-29-2006, 03:05 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan
1) Stuart is a RFA in July, and if he can be locked up long term, I would definetely consider him a guy that you can build a blue-line around.
2) From a Habs fan, how would you evaluate JT's performance against the Habs the last two play-off series?

The only potential saving grace for the Thornton deal for me is if the Bruins organization felt that JT wasn't a guy that could lead the team in the play-off's. When you commit $6M to a player, he needs to be a guy that will deliver the goods in the play-off's, because you are building around him. I think that the "sample size" of JT's play-off performance is too small to say that he is going to fold when the games become even more important. However, I don't work with JT on a daily basis (and no one here does either), and the Bruins do. The only thing that I can think of is that the Bruins felt that JT wasn't going to be a team leader, which they felt they needed if they were paying him that much money.

JT had a no-trade clause that kicked in very soon, and if the Bruins didn't trade him before that, they were committed to him for a long period of time.

I'm not trying to justify the trade, just give a reason why the Bruins might of made the deal.
there's one HUGE factor to consider in J.T.'s trouble in scoring in the last 2 playoffs against the habs. For one, every team and player has its "nemesis" I guess you can say. For example, New Jersey has HUGE trouble in beating the leafs as does Ottawa (IN THE PLAYOFFS Ottawa does, not regular season). For big Joe, it was Theodore. Theodore was his absolute nightmare but, if you notice his past record against him, it wasn't just in the playoffs but also the regular season. I can almost guarantee you that, with the strength of the bruins the last couple seasons when they had a roster, if they would have met some other team the first round, the whole thinking from Boston fans in particular as well as the hockey world would have been VERY different.

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03-29-2006, 05:51 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gojt
there's one HUGE factor to consider in J.T.'s trouble in scoring in the last 2 playoffs against the habs. For one, every team and player has its "nemesis" I guess you can say. For example, New Jersey has HUGE trouble in beating the leafs as does Ottawa (IN THE PLAYOFFS Ottawa does, not regular season). For big Joe, it was Theodore. Theodore was his absolute nightmare but, if you notice his past record against him, it wasn't just in the playoffs but also the regular season. I can almost guarantee you that, with the strength of the bruins the last couple seasons when they had a roster, if they would have met some other team the first round, the whole thinking from Boston fans in particular as well as the hockey world would have been VERY different.
And Let's not forget Brodeur Beating the Bruins in their other 1st round exit over the last three seasons. The playoff failures of the Bruins being put onto JT's shoulders is absolute Bull ****. We've all seen countless teams get beat in the playoffs even though they were the stronger team on paper simply because they ran into hot goaltender. Look at what Kipprusoff did to 3 Division Champions last playoffs and Giguere the year before that. JT is without question the best Centre in the league now and will prove his worth in the playoffs if his teamates(especialy goaltender) shine along with him.

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03-29-2006, 06:21 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gojt
there's one HUGE factor to consider in J.T.'s trouble in scoring in the last 2 playoffs against the habs. For one, every team and player has its "nemesis" I guess you can say. For example, New Jersey has HUGE trouble in beating the leafs as does Ottawa (IN THE PLAYOFFS Ottawa does, not regular season). For big Joe, it was Theodore. Theodore was his absolute nightmare but, if you notice his past record against him, it wasn't just in the playoffs but also the regular season. I can almost guarantee you that, with the strength of the bruins the last couple seasons when they had a roster, if they would have met some other team the first round, the whole thinking from Boston fans in particular as well as the hockey world would have been VERY different.

Theodore didn't even play that well in the last series against Boston. Great players find a way to get on the scoreboard and their team to the next round. Top notch hockey players don't need to play against journeyman goaltenders to have success. Maybe Joe will turn it around but no excuses can really be made for his playoff perfomances up to this date.

ExplosiveLEAFman is offline  
Old
03-29-2006, 06:41 PM
  #25
MEGALINSKY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dafoomie
Instead, we get to start another long rebuildng process around another group of players that'll probably just end up gone right before they hit their peak. Its called Bruins.
it WAS also called the montreal expos...

edit: sorry, somebody beat me to it.

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