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Old
06-16-2017, 11:22 PM
  #101
Digger12
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I know it's a wasted exercise because past is past, but I'll always wonder how differently things would have turned out for Schultz and Yakupov if we had kept Krueger as coach and Dallas Eakins had never darkened our door with his abysmally implemented "swarm" defense and overall incompetence.

Hiring Eakins in a fit of hubris was likely MacTavish's 2nd biggest mistake in his life.

Yes I know, McDavid etc.

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06-16-2017, 11:23 PM
  #102
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I don't think we are in any place to judge how well another team drafted....

We are on our way now but many years of wasted high picks in rounds 2-5

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Old
06-16-2017, 11:23 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoop View Post
I may have agreed with a bounce back season for Ebs being possible before the playoffs. He appeared to try his best, but did not play very well. Fans got on him pretty hard. Management has done nothing to deny the multitude of rumours about a potential Eberle trade. If he doesn't get moved it will seem as if the Oilers are stuck with him.

I think it's just a bad situation for Eberle. Most people have been stuck in crappy jobs at some point in their lives. Blame the employer or the employee, but change can be good for all parties involved. I really think that's the situation the Oilers are in with Eberle.
I might be more inclined to agree with this if we were talking about more than 1 bad season. As it stands it is 1 bad season we are using as the barometer for Eberle as a player.
A 'bad' season in which he still scored over 50 points.

So no I dont think that defines a 'bad situation' in the same way it did for Yak and Schultz.
Its a different situation entirely.

Quote:
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I genuinely liked Yak. I didn't like Larionov as his agent though.

Yak just, he's never going to be the player that lots of people hoped he would be. I think we waited as long as we could to see if he could turn it around and it just wasn't working.

He doesn't have the hockey IQ. Simple as that.
Good point about Larionov although I think that the player should have some responsibility for how the agents communicates with the team. He does have input into that process.
I liked Yak early on...I lost respect for him once I saw how poorly he handled adversity and how selfish he became.

I am very glad he is gone.

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Old
06-16-2017, 11:26 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by ChaoticOrange View Post
They can ask for Draisaitl all they like but outside of maybe 10 players in the league the response would be incredulous laughter.

Wouldn't trade Drai for anyone on the Canes.
Completely agree.

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06-16-2017, 11:27 PM
  #105
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What cycle is that?

Schultz was overpaid here. He took a drastic pay cut on a one-year deal with the Pens and is gonna get paid now.

Does anyone think he would have taken that pay cut to play one more seasons with the Oilers?
I don't think he was over payed as much as he was over played. Certain players belone in different roles to succeed. Had we played him on third pair with extra minutes on PP and OZ draws we would have seen a more successful player

His fall from grace was our doing

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06-16-2017, 11:34 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by jeg View Post
I don't think he was over payed as much as he was over played. Certain players belone in different roles to succeed. Had we played him on third pair with extra minutes on PP and OZ draws we would have seen a more successful player

His fall from grace was our doing
It was a tough situation the Oilers were in. Schultz wasn't going to take 3rd pairing money, and likely needed a wakeup call to accept that role.

Consider the fact that the cup will be 25% higher this coming season than it was the first year of Schultz's big deal with the Oilers.

That would be like signing somebody to a three year deal with an aav of $4.6M to play on the third pairing.

While I think Schultz may get that aav with his upcoming contract, I don't think it will be much more than that, or with the expectation of a third pairing role.

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Old
06-16-2017, 11:40 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post
I dont think that the Yak comparison applies here. There was ample evidence to suggest that Yak was not going to be an effective NHL player. So his value was never high and it was never going to improve.
Eberle is a proven NHL goal scorer and he is coming off of a bad year in which he still scored 50+ points. Yes he comes with some flaws but he is a proven scorer which is the single hardest feat to accomplish in this League. So with that in mind if his value around the League is low (which I dont buy for a second) and the only issue is style then you dont trade him at this point in time.
You wait until at least Christmas to see which teams are offensively challenged....so you wait until teams become more desperate for offence.
Then you extract more value for the player who is most likely going to have a bounce back year anyway.
If we do keep Eberle, I hope the reason for him to improve is more than just something like "let's try another kick at the can". I've said this before: if something's not working then something has to change.

Moving out Eberle is an obvious change, but it doesn't have to be that. For me, that alternate change is the defense, because we're keeping RNH and most other changes will be minor at forward. If we had a Barrie/Green etc type of D, that might alter the way the team plays, and maybe a player like Eberle would find himself again. If nothing changes in the team, I doubt anything changes with Eberle.

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06-16-2017, 11:40 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macblender View Post
From my post on the main boards:


I do not really see any part about that that makes Eberle a disease?
Who are our RWers this season if he gets traded? Unproven #1, Unproven #2, and a free agent??
We can only trade him if we get value back.


To me I just see a bunch of people who emotionally evaluate players and say awh you know what Eberle didnt score in a 14 game sample size he is inherently valueless addition by subtraction trading him. Then do not present a logical argument for who takes his place. He cannot possibly be valueless and a disease if there is apparently 6-7 teams with some degree of seriousness pursuing his services.
You've gotta move out the poison (RNH & J.E) from the old regime. The team is a contender for now. These aren't the types of players you win with.


Last edited by hockeyfanatic89: 06-16-2017 at 11:56 PM.
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Old
06-16-2017, 11:49 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanatic89 View Post
You've gotta move out the poison (RNH & J.E) from the old regime. The team is a contest for now. These aren't the types of players you win with.
Just like how a team will never win with Kessel? As long as RNH and Eberle aren't the feature players we'll be fine.

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Old
06-16-2017, 11:57 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by McShogun99 View Post
Just like how a team will never win with Kessel? As long as RNH and Eberle aren't the feature players we'll be fine.
Kessel is being paid somewhat in line with his contribution to the Pens, when you factor in the salary the Leafs are retaining.

Both were moved into secondary roles over the past two seasons. Nuge has acquitted himself in that role while Ebs hasn't.

Both are overpaid for a secondary role. The Oilers can't afford to pay both $6M per to be second or third liners. Nuge is the better bet for an overpaid second liner.

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Old
06-17-2017, 12:04 AM
  #111
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Why are we talking about Nurse?

Is he rumoured to be on the move?

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Old
06-17-2017, 12:08 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfanatic89 View Post
You've gotta move out the poison (RNH & J.E) from the old regime. The team is a contender for now. These aren't the types of players you win with.
it's kind of silly to call them poison. Just look at Schultz who was probably the biggest 'poison' we had here, but on a winning team he turned it around. The same can happen here. The fresh start can occur on the same team if the team changes enough.

I also like the idea that we keep some pieces from the rebuild. It makes the rebuild seem like it actually meant something other than just the last couple years where we got McDavid and Drai. I feel like anyone who has followed this team through thick and thin would probably like to see some continuity, and to see the suffering from player like RNH or Ebs rewarded with some winning.

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Old
06-17-2017, 12:11 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
Why are we talking about Nurse?

Is he rumoured to be on the move?
I don't think so, but seeing Sergachev move tells me that expansion-exempt assets have huge value now, so I'd imagine we have to consider moving Nurse if there is a big asset there we can get for him.

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Old
06-17-2017, 12:37 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Mr Positive View Post
it's kind of silly to call them poison. Just look at Schultz who was probably the biggest 'poison' we had here, but on a winning team he turned it around. The same can happen here. The fresh start can occur on the same team if the team changes enough.

I also like the idea that we keep some pieces from the rebuild. It makes the rebuild seem like it actually meant something other than just the last couple years where we got McDavid and Drai. I feel like anyone who has followed this team through thick and thin would probably like to see some continuity, and to see the suffering from player like RNH or Ebs rewarded with some winning.
Unfortunately the first rebuild did mean nothing. Ebs and Nuge playing terribly forced their friend, the much better player, to get traded. No sympathy for them.

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Old
06-17-2017, 12:37 AM
  #115
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I've got a guy through my business practice who is connected to Ebs and some other NHL players in Calgary. For what it's worth Eb's was told by the Oilers, at their exit discussions, that he was not going to be traded.
So it is what it is. Doesn't mean he won't be necessarily. But my source is solid.

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06-17-2017, 12:45 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoop View Post
What cycle is that?

Schultz was overpaid here. He took a drastic pay cut on a one-year deal with the Pens and is gonna get paid now.

Does anyone think he would have taken that pay cut to play one more seasons with the Oilers?
What would it matter if he took the 2 million pay cut or not, we were not in cap trouble. I think the point the poster was making that you replied to is fans want to run players out of town only to get lesser in return, while still looking for what we had in the first place.

Justin Schultz type player is exactly what this team is looking for right now.

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Old
06-17-2017, 01:58 AM
  #117
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I also agree that Nuge is no defensive phenom. On the PK he's pretty darn good, but not at 5v5. It might be because he's getting some time used to it but 52% starts in the dzone isn't even that bad if we talk about normal starts for 'defensive centres' and he still posted negative possession and goal differential numbers. Maybe it's because of Russell who hampered that down (by a lot mind you), and his linemates not really picking up the slack in terms of execution. But still, Nuge is not a good defensive centre in his first go at it, defensive centres like Bergeron, Kesler, and even Backlund (this guy started 63% of his draws defensively!!!) post positive possession numbers even in crazy zone starts (60%+ in dzone)

But yea, Nuge should focus on the offence again because that's what he's actually good at

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06-17-2017, 01:58 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
Why are we talking about Nurse?

Is he rumoured to be on the move?
The bolded is/was a good question. I moved 32 posts to the Nurse player discussion thread. Some of us are looking for rumors and trades being broken and don't want to wade through 2-3 pages of thread derailment.

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06-17-2017, 02:13 AM
  #119
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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Eberle will not be traded tomorrow, or at all. If anyone is traded tomorrow... I'll guess something like Nuge and + to Avs for Duchene.

Otherwise expect nothing on the Oilers front, pals.

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06-17-2017, 02:33 AM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretzky to Kurri View Post
I've got a guy through my business practice who is connected to Ebs and some other NHL players in Calgary. For what it's worth Eb's was told by the Oilers, at their exit discussions, that he was not going to be traded.
So it is what it is. Doesn't mean he won't be necessarily. But my source is solid.
Things change, especially if Chia is getting more lucrative offers than he first thought were possible.

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Old
06-17-2017, 02:45 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by McVirginOil View Post
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Eberle will not be traded tomorrow, or at all. If anyone is traded tomorrow... I'll guess something like Nuge and + to Avs for Duchene.

Otherwise expect nothing on the Oilers front, pals.
Why would Oilers be adding for Duchene would rather have Nuge

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Old
06-17-2017, 03:04 AM
  #122
Took a pill in Sbisa
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Originally Posted by VainGretzky View Post
Why would Oilers be adding for Duchene would rather have Nuge
Because he's good at faceoffs and scores more than 56 points

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06-17-2017, 03:12 AM
  #123
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Assuming we keep Eberle and RNH, re-upping Russell, next summer we are probably looking at this cap situation

2018-19 Oilers

Caggiula (3) McDavid (10) Puljujarvi (0.985)
Lucic (6) Draisaitl (7.5) Eberle (6)
Pitlick (1.25) RNH (6) Kassian (1.8)
Khaira (0.625) Letestu? (2) Slepyshev (1.5)
Extra forward (700k)

Maroon walks as we can't afford his extension.

Klefbom (4.1) Larsson (4.1)
Sekera (5.5) Russell (3.5)
Nurse (3) Benning (2)
Extra D (1.2)

Talbot (4.1)
Back-up (1.2)

=

76.06 million

So we'll be right at the cap roof next year, having to let Maroon walk. Also we have to find a way to get rid of Pouliot somehow, otherwise we're looking at a 80 million roster. We're also going to face a cap penalty if Puljujarvi hits his rookie bonuses, some of which he'd likely reach playing with McDavid or Leon.

Now yes, you can possibly move RNH or Eberle at this point, but likely the other team is going to want to send salary back (how many teams do you see taking on $6 mill in raw salary).

Basically Chiarelli won't have many options for changing the roster next summer in all likely hood.


Last edited by Soundwave: 06-17-2017 at 03:18 AM.
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Old
06-17-2017, 03:46 AM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
Why are we talking about Nurse?

Is he rumoured to be on the move?
specualtion started on the NYI board and main board that everytime the oilers contact a team about a trade--Nurse is the name that comes up as the ask

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06-17-2017, 03:55 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Took a pill in Sbisa View Post
Because he's good at faceoffs and scores more than 56 points
But he doesn't make anyone around him better and is a one-man player. I would sooner have Nuge as well.

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