HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

A scholarly argument against the captaincy for Eichel

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-17-2017, 12:04 PM
  #1
BiPolarBear
Registered User
 
BiPolarBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 3,552
vCash: 500
A scholarly argument against the captaincy for Eichel

The Captain Class: The Hidden Force That Creates the World’s Greatest Teams



https://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...e-feschuk.html

I've posted here before about other candidates for the Sabres captaincy - Risto and McCabe.

This book, supposedly 11 years of research, shows making your star player the captain isn't the way to go. And as far as ROR goes, too passive. There's more than setting a good example.

Quote:
One of the book’s bedrock revelations is that the important qualities of great leaders don’t include things like talent or charisma or media friendliness (or even friendliness, period). In other words: Somewhere along the way, the world started valuing the wrong things in team leaders.

BiPolarBear is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2017, 02:25 PM
  #2
Jim Bob
....Rebooting....
 
Jim Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 23,574
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiPolarBear View Post
The Captain Class: The Hidden Force That Creates the World’s Greatest Teams



https://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...e-feschuk.html

I've posted here before about other candidates for the Sabres captaincy - Risto and McCabe.

This book, supposedly 11 years of research, shows making your star player the captain isn't the way to go. And as far as ROR goes, too passive. There's more than setting a good example.
This is why I think Okposo might be a great candidate for the C.

He was starting to take control of the room before the season ending injury/medical situation.

Jim Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2017, 02:34 PM
  #3
Ace
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,884
vCash: 500
Here's my argument for it:

He's the face of the franchise.

Ace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2017, 02:48 PM
  #4
Wisent42
Registered User
 
Wisent42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Södertälje
Country: Sweden
Posts: 1,977
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace View Post
Here's my argument for it:

He's the face of the franchise.
Yeah, don't bother reading the article or anything.

Wisent42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2017, 03:23 PM
  #5
TheStorm
Registered User
 
TheStorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 750
vCash: 500
The article says people who are a pain in the ass to management. So Eichel then.(s)

TheStorm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2017, 04:39 PM
  #6
struckbyaparkedcar
Zemgus Da Gawd
 
struckbyaparkedcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Country: Cote DIvoire
Posts: 15,293
vCash: 500
That book is a study in anecdotal evidence that works backwards from conclusions by ignoring talent surpluses and leadershippy actions taken by non-captains to conclude that Captains who have won a bunch are the best Captains.

struckbyaparkedcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2017, 05:08 PM
  #7
ZZamboni
Puttin' on the Foil
 
ZZamboni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 13,166
vCash: 500
I read the article ....

My conclusion ....

Ryan O'Reilly will still be the next Sabres Captain.

ZZamboni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2017, 05:14 PM
  #8
BiPolarBear
Registered User
 
BiPolarBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 3,552
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStorm View Post
The article says people who are a pain in the ass to management. So Eichel then.(s)
I did think about that when I read that part - Eichel does have some qualities this author says are important to great captains. But he does make the strong point that the big stars already have a lot of pressure on them just having to consistently be the best player on the team.

BiPolarBear is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2017, 05:16 PM
  #9
Sabre the Win
ROR 2 LW Plz
 
Sabre the Win's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,909
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStorm View Post
The article says people who are a pain in the ass to management. So Eichel then.(s)
but he is management?

Sabre the Win is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2017, 05:17 PM
  #10
Top Pair Imposter
False Defenseman
 
Top Pair Imposter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: Ras al-Khaimah
Posts: 13,423
vCash: 50
Exceptional leader Dustin Brown could be had for a song, I'm sure.

Top Pair Imposter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2017, 05:20 PM
  #11
BiPolarBear
Registered User
 
BiPolarBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 3,552
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
That book is a study in anecdotal evidence that works backwards from conclusions by ignoring talent surpluses and leadershippy actions taken by non-captains to conclude that Captains who have won a bunch are the best Captains.
I assume he tried to factor things like those in and it's discussed in the book. I doubt he ignored that championship/dynasty teams have a core of top players.

BiPolarBear is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2017, 06:22 AM
  #12
SatanwasaSlovak
Registered User
 
SatanwasaSlovak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Malmö, Skåne
Country: Denmark
Posts: 1,150
vCash: 500
There's no captain in Buffalo, because they have no leaders.

SatanwasaSlovak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2017, 06:39 AM
  #13
CacOBG
Registered User
 
CacOBG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: United Kingdom
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 969
vCash: 500
This should be easy - ROR. Don't think Jack is mature enough to be the captain leader for the group. Yes he is face of franchise, he will be likely the team's top goalscorer but that doesn't automatically make him captain material. ROR is ideal for that role IMO.

CacOBG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2017, 06:58 AM
  #14
Jim Bob
....Rebooting....
 
Jim Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 23,574
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CacOBG View Post
This should be easy - ROR. Don't think Jack is mature enough to be the captain leader for the group. Yes he is face of franchise, he will be likely the team's top goalscorer but that doesn't automatically make him captain material. ROR is ideal for that role IMO.
I think Okposo might be the best choice given all the talk that he was taking over the room before he got hurt at the end of the year.

Jim Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2017, 07:05 AM
  #15
1972
"Craigs on it"
 
1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,301
vCash: 50
We don't even need a captain next year.

1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2017, 07:56 AM
  #16
Husko
Registered User
 
Husko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New York, NY
Country: Ireland
Posts: 8,662
vCash: 165
Housley's quotes about not putting too much pressure on Jack screamed to me "no captaincy."

Husko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2017, 08:34 AM
  #17
Der Jaeger
O'Reichelainenhart
 
Der Jaeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 5,339
vCash: 500
Made me think about it. The author doesn't include players like Crosby, but it's also safe to say Crosby could be an exception as one of the few generational NHL players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Pair Imposter View Post
Exceptional leader Dustin Brown could be had for a song, I'm sure.
Thought about this deal for a couple weeks now. If GMJB could package in 11OA, I'm aboard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SatanwasaSlovak View Post
There's no captain in Buffalo, because they have no leaders.
What's a leader then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
I think Okposo might be the best choice given all the talk that he was taking over the room before he got hurt at the end of the year.
Thinking about the author's view on captains, Okposo and McCabe come to mind.

Der Jaeger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2017, 03:39 PM
  #18
Eichel15
A DJ saved my life
 
Eichel15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Downtown Buffalo
Country: Germany
Posts: 3,496
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Eichel15
Are you guys not aware that Brown is signed until the end of the 21-22 season WITH a modified NTC? At 5.875 per year. Seriously. WHY WOULD YOU WANT THAT?!?!! That final year of his contract, he'll turn 37 in November, just after the season starts. You are out of your fracking mind if you want anything to do with him.

Eichel15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2017, 06:22 PM
  #19
Kublakhan
Lets Go Buffalo !!!
 
Kublakhan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Tonawanda
Country: United States
Posts: 1,262
vCash: 500
it's Gio if he is still here... ROR if Gio is gone

Kublakhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2017, 07:13 PM
  #20
DJN21
Registered User
 
DJN21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rochester
Posts: 5,121
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kublakhan View Post
it's Gio if he is still here... ROR if Gio is gone
Ruined my day...

DJN21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2017, 08:11 PM
  #21
Leelee Phoenix
Registered User
 
Leelee Phoenix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Hamlet of Ebenezer
Country: Kyrgyzstan
Posts: 2,083
vCash: 50
Quote:
That prototypical Tier One captain has qualities that aren’t particularly glamorous. Grittiness is common.
:sighs: :groans:

Leelee Phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2017, 10:08 PM
  #22
kp2575
Ray's Pocket Square
 
kp2575's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: PDX
Country: United States
Posts: 104
vCash: 500
The captaincy debate is the most overrated discussion on any sports forum. The letter doesn't matter in the least. Natural leaders will lead and multiple players play roles in a leadership capacity in different ways. Look at the Warriors, for example, they have different leaders that serve different roles. Kevin Durant was talking about JaVale McGee and how he bonded the team together with his attitude and being friends with all 12 guys on the roster. He isn't what you would call a natural leader, half the time people accuse him of not knowing what is going on but he served a role off the court.

The Sabres need a blend of people in the locker room. Who has the letter doesn't impact the issue that they might not have that blend currently on the roster.

kp2575 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-19-2017, 12:12 AM
  #23
valet
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 36
vCash: 500
I think that this is just a collision between old logic and new logic. It's impossible to say that old research can project a current outcome. Good writers excel at creating narratives that might not exist. Correlation =/= causation.

It's an elegant idea but that doesn't make it true. But I'm also not advocating for Eichel to be captain. Whoever gets it gets it, and they need to live up to it. And they will if it's a good call, based on how the coach feels about the team.

valet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-19-2017, 06:20 AM
  #24
sincerity0
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kp2575 View Post
The captaincy debate is the most overrated discussion on any sports forum. The letter doesn't matter in the least. Natural leaders will lead and multiple players play roles in a leadership capacity in different ways. Look at the Warriors, for example, they have different leaders that serve different roles. Kevin Durant was talking about JaVale McGee and how he bonded the team together with his attitude and being friends with all 12 guys on the roster. He isn't what you would call a natural leader, half the time people accuse him of not knowing what is going on but he served a role off the court.

The Sabres need a blend of people in the locker room. Who has the letter doesn't impact the issue that they might not have that blend currently on the roster.
I agree -- while giving letters visually signifies captains / leaders, that does not necessarily mean those are the best leaders.

The premise of the article has points. For example, just because you are good at your job does not necessarily mean you should lead your co-workers. We've all had managers that are good people, good are the jobs, but are simply not good leaders for whatever reason.

At the same time, if someone has leadership qualities but sucks at their job they won't garner enough respect. It's like the "preach what you practice" idea, but if you suck whos going to listen?

With these kinds of discussions I always like to relate them to real life because for the players thats what this is -- it's a discussion on who is going to be their leader for the season (and hopefully going forward).

I am in favor of giving Eichel the C for a variety of reasons, mainly because he will be the captain eventually, why not let him grow into the role with the team? It's also not like he will be the sole leader either, there are players like Okposo, ROR, Gorges (lol), and others who have a lot of experience in the league. Eichel would not have to run the team alone.

sincerity0 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-19-2017, 07:26 AM
  #25
Buffaloed
Administrator
Webmaster
 
Buffaloed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 25,176
vCash: 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStorm View Post
The article says people who are a pain in the ass to management. So Eichel then.(s)
We'd probably be looking forward to another season with Disco Dan if not for Eichel.

Buffaloed is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:42 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.