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Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2016-17 Part XXIV

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06-18-2017, 08:27 AM
  #76
arun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cullen Bohannon View Post
Why should he be praised for simply doing his job correctly and according to common sense expectations? The only move he's made on his own that was a pleasant surprise was the Martinsen for Andrighetto trade. Everything else was par for the course. His failure to acquire any draft picks at the deadline should be scrutinized as inexperienced incompetence. Any team in last place plummeting to the bottom goes out and acquires draft picks and young prospects.

When you go to a restaurant, you expect a certain level of service and competence from your waiter. Sakic is that waiter that only comes to your table after you've been seated for a twenty minutes. Then mixes up your drink order and disappears for another 20 minutes while your stomach rumbles in hanger. You can just sense that he doesn't want to be there, and he's soft spoken and not assertive at all. Any confidence you could have had in him performing his job properly is gone. Finally after bumbling his way through your order, he doesn't ask if you want dessert but he leaves you an extra mint. The extra mint was the Ghetto trade. You're not going to tip a waiter who sucks at his job, just because he eventually fulfilled his job requirements at a basic and incompetent level. Most people would ask a manager for another waiter. Or they would be too polite to ask because he seems like a nice guy, and just endure the terrible service until it's over.
Sakic is nowhere near the waiter position, plus he's always been patient, right? If we were to do this comparison; the players are your waiters and other staff members who don't deliver. Your shift leader/manager is Bednar who doesn't train them properly. Sakic would be the owner or whatever of that restaurant brand. Also, the waiter is not the chef nor the bartender. Don't shoot (just) the messenger in this comparison. Of course, top management should do everything to get that restaurant up and running properly, but we have way too few insights on claiming "Sakic doesn't pull off trades, and that's that".
This being said, comparing ordering a drink and pulling of a trade (where so many external factors come into play) is a bit too easy as well.

Bad service? Yeah I get that you'd ask for another waiter or whatever. Yes quality and passion is something you should expect from any company and its personnel. When it comes to our players, that's up to the coach. The coach is being appointed by our GM, yes. Bad move to hire Bednar? Taking the circumstances of Roy leaving all of the sudden, no. The guy was kinda credible and has/had a decent amount of promise as a coach, which he still may be able to deliver on with a new staff and some roster changes.
Hindsight, Bednars system hasn't worked (with the current core) nor has he inspired the team to get something going. Should Sakic have fired him in December or at the end of the season? Maybe, but then what? I'm sure no experienced coach would have wanted to step in - if even available. Not at the beginning of last season nor at this point..

Yes, at the deadline it would have been nice to get some picks for pending UFA's/vets and so on. But which ones? Tyutin or Beauch? The Bourques, maybe? Or how about Grigs and Mitchell? Or maybe move Soda with his big contract and peewee performance? Or Comeau? Come on. As if the Pens were to move a third or anything for these underperforming dead bodies with a cap hit with an expansion draft coming up as well? Sure, should Sakic have signed this group in the first place? No, but that's hindsight, again. For instance, Colborne came off a very good season in Calgary. He just froze in Colorado, is that due to Sakic? And then again, it's not just Sakic who signs these guys or has a saying in this.

And as for trading our vets for picks/prospects, other teams need to be interested in your players in order for them to trade away assets/picks. This is not NHL17 franchise mode where you can trade Grigs + 3rd for Drouin or get Werenski for a 2nd. Who knows what happened at the deadline, resulting in nothing happening for us. Sure, Sakic made bad moves and good moves. But from my perspective, he is used to being competitive and wanting to win. Heck, he's been the captain of this franchise so I'm assuming (yes assuming) he hasn't lost that pride and will to win. I just think he's waiting for the best options and is patient, which is what a staff member with responsibilities is ought to be like. . I think we all don;t have a clue, including myself, on what the heck happens behind the scenes. Trading players and running a team is not that easy, and in a market with so many things going on (e.g. exp. draft), options are very limited.

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Old
06-18-2017, 08:32 AM
  #77
Pierce Hawthorne
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Originally Posted by The Pwnerer View Post
It's nice seeing these list coming out and seeing that there actually is a good chunk of quality teams at risk of losing good players for nothing. Yet our team is so bad we are hoping Vegas poaches are extra weight!
And yet, people still think this team can and should try to be a playoff team next year.


It's mind blowing. Our core guys aren't good enough to win a cup, and our depth pieces aren't even good enough to be in the NHL at this point.


I'm praying Sakic sees the light. He's been adamant about building for the future and getting younger. Hopefully he follows through with this.

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06-18-2017, 08:40 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Iracundia View Post
This reminds me of what was said about Kyle Wood at the TDL, "He's just a 3rd round pick who will probably never ....."

Meanwhile Woods in his 1st year in the AHL makes the All-star team, ends up with the highest PPG of any rookie D, ends up 2nd in PP Goals by any D

Sakic didn't have to say a word to Butcher last year other than keep improving and we will go from there. Instead he kicks the kid to the curb and then a year later, with contract in hand, has to suck up and beg for him to sign.

As for Beauch buyout, why should Sakic get credit for it when he was the moron who signed him in the first place? You would think Sakic would have learned his lesson about signing over-the-hill D when he traded a 2nd for Stuart, but instead he double downed with Beauch and gave him an even longer contract.

Just like how Duchene needs to move on the same can be said for Sakic.
I do not remember many folks being dismissive of Wood. I remember some being very upset about it, and some trying to calm her down, but nobody was happy about shipping him off. At most, folks were happy about the trade because it got Tanguay off the roster and brought it a skilled wing that meshed well for a few weeks, until MacK and Duchene got hurt. But losing Wood was always a sore spot, but the price to be paid. Folks were more dismissive of losing Bleackley.

I was under the impression that it was Roy that negotiated the FB contract and Sakic just let him have his way.

Also, wasn't it Roy that told Butcher that he did not have a future as an Av? I seem to recall that being more his M.O....Roy was the size queen was he not?

Regardless, have we had a quote from Butcher saying he will not sign with the Avs, or is it just assumption that because they have not announced it, then it has to be another failure by everyone's favorite whipping boy? I agree that it would suck to lose him to another team, but time will tell how much it hurts (I see him as a middle pairing guy at best, with some work to get there, but entirely possible).

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Old
06-18-2017, 09:10 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
This is exactly the point. I'm sure if the Avs signed Radulov and Kulikov this summer and Varlamov returned to form that the Avs could absolutely compete for playoffs.


But the problem is we've seen proof already that they're not good enough to actually make playoffs and if they do manage to squeak in it'd be a quick first round defeat once again.



The current Avs roster even with Radulov added to it us simply not good enough to contend for a cup. So what's the point of try to be a middle of the pack team when that's the absolute base case scenario with this team.


The best thing that could happen to this team is another awful season and subsequentlya Top 5 pick and an actual superstar talent that can change the dynamic of this team.


Anything else and it's just a continuation of the endless cycle of mediocrity we've already had to endure for the better part of 15 years now.
Completely agree. Best thing by far is for us to not be good next year. Were not winning a cup. Were not getting a top pairing guy in a duchene trade. There are multiple top pairing potential dmen in next years draft. The worst thing would be being a middle of the pack team like we are every year where theres good defensive prospects. Every time there are really good dmen they get picked one spot in head of us and will probably happen again this year. So suck next year and get one of those dmen. Then we really will have something to build around and can really take next step

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Old
06-18-2017, 09:42 AM
  #80
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I think what happened yesterday was that there was a lot of talk, but the problem is the deals were too much or GM's didn't want to rush them.

I fully believe that there were groundwork's of a defender to Montreal for Galchenyuk in a package, but maybe Habs wanted too much. While Minnesota wanted a straight one for one piece. I also think Sens wanted to trade Phaneuf, but nobody was going to take on that contract in a NTC of 12 teams. That just drastically limits your options.

What are people's thoughts on Nestrov not being qualified? That's a mobile defender I wouldn't mind grabbing on July 1st after the likes of Stone and Shattenkirk are gone.

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Old
06-18-2017, 09:45 AM
  #81
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Also remember the league wants teams to wait until the ExpDr. to announce their deals so they can create some NHL mega event. Which im totally ok with.

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Old
06-18-2017, 09:52 AM
  #82
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Seems like Vegas will have a Minny defenseman, the Islanders 1st and a good prospect. I wouldn't mind that in return for Duchene.

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06-18-2017, 09:54 AM
  #83
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Alright new Vegas deal. CDH + 2 1sts for Duchene.

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06-18-2017, 09:56 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by lonelybadger View Post
Alright new Vegas deal. CDH + 2 1sts for Duchene.
That's all we can hope for from NYI now right?

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Old
06-18-2017, 09:58 AM
  #85
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That's all we can hope for from NYI now right?
Apparently isles went 3 f 5 D and still left CDH exposed. I saw on Twitter they might have a deal to lay off the forwards for a first. snow is choosing to forwards over CDH + 1st

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06-18-2017, 10:02 AM
  #86
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I think the Isles are out of the Duchene sweepstakes. If CBJ loses JJ probably them too. And no I don't think LV wants Duchene. If Sakic was savvy he'd give up assets to get at least one defender if not more from them - good assets - and then flip Duchene for the best package available, which would likely be purely young forwards / forward prospects / picks.

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06-18-2017, 10:03 AM
  #87
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Having another bad season to secure another top-5 pick might in theory be what the team needs but it also breeds even more that losing culture that most here want us to change as soon as possible. You can't have it both ways. IMO this team needs to start winning in order to instill some hunger into that team and the sooner the better. So what if they are a bubble team next year. Making the POs will fuel that hunger and the will to win and give them POs experience which is another thing this team needs to start gaining before becoming a cup contender. Even if we end up having a middle of the round pick there will be very good dmen in those spots. Being a bubble team doesn't mean you will remain mediocre for a long time. You just need to draft very well and that is one thing they seem to be better at lately. As much as I would like to get Dahlin or Svechnikov next year the fact is the odds are slim to get one of them anyway as we saw at this year lottery so count me in the group that wants to make the POs next season.

As far as Sakic is concerned the hate for him is getting hilarious. When he does something good it is only doing his job and no more but he gets crucified when the smallest thing goes bad. I still don't know if he is cut out for this job but I was willing to give the chance to put this team on the right track and I'm sticking to my decision. Let's see at least what next week brings before crucifying the guy.

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06-18-2017, 10:05 AM
  #88
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Also remember the league wants teams to wait until the ExpDr. to announce their deals so they can create some NHL mega event. Which im totally ok with.
I don't know, it seems that those trades are ones that involve Vegas Golden Knights no? I mean if Wild wanted to trade one of their defenders to get some value they would have just done it yesterday.

I am quite surprised that the Ducks didn't do anything else, but maybe they're getting rid of their 1st to protect certain players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sethro109 View Post
Seems like Vegas will have a Minny defenseman, the Islanders 1st and a good prospect. I wouldn't mind that in return for Duchene.
Yeah...

Brodin/Dumba
NYI 1st
CBJ 1st/Prospect

for

Duchene isn't the worst thing ever. I prefer those two over the likes of de Haan that's for sure. But for all the Hurricane fans thinking that he wouldn't re-sign with them, I would think that Duchene would have a much better chance of going to UFA if he joined Vegas.

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06-18-2017, 10:08 AM
  #89
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If isles are moving a first to vegas than they are most likely out. Means we have maybe nashville and possibly ottawa left. Really bad feeling about duchene trade smh

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06-18-2017, 10:11 AM
  #90
Pierce Hawthorne
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Yeach the Duchene trade partners continue to go down by the looks of things. I would say NYI, OTT, and CBJ are probably all out on any deal now.


This is continuing to look worse and worse. Hard to get value when nobody is interested or offering pieces that interest us.


I really think it might be just MTL, PIT, and maybe NSH/CAR left now.

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06-18-2017, 10:12 AM
  #91
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Vegas is literally starting over from scratch...no prospect pool at all. Why in God's name would they give up valuable first round picks and players that can be traded for multiple more assets just for a 26 year old that will long out of his prime by the time they ever build a contender, and who would probably just leave within 2 years...


I think Sakic's already screwed this one up.

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06-18-2017, 10:15 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
Yeach the Duchene trade partners continue to go down by the looks of things. I would say NYI, OTT, and CBJ are probably all out on any deal now.


This is continuing to look worse and worse. Hard to get value when nobody is interested or offering pieces that interest us.


I really think it might be just MTL, PIT, and maybe NSH/CAR left now.
Unless you are a big fan of Galchenyuk or Maata, I don't see PIT or MTL as very legitimate options.


Last edited by Goulet17; 06-18-2017 at 10:21 AM..
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06-18-2017, 10:15 AM
  #93
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Vegas is literally starting over from scratch...no prospect pool at all. Why in God's name would they give up valuable first round picks and players that can be traded for multiple more assets just for a 26 year old that will long out of his prime by the time they ever build a contender, and who would probably just leave within 2 years...


I think Sakic's already screwed this one up.
Yeah it's hard to see that. Sakic should've moved Duchene already. There is still a shot, but the reported/speculated De Haan + Barzal + 1st is dead.

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06-18-2017, 10:16 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
Yeach the Duchene trade partners continue to go down by the looks of things. I would say NYI, OTT, and CBJ are probably all out on any deal now.


This is continuing to look worse and worse. Hard to get value when nobody is interested or offering pieces that interest us.


I really think it might be just MTL, PIT, and maybe NSH/CAR left now.
Id scratch off mtl. Lost their only real d we would want and they want to move chucky for d. They dont have pieces for duchene. Pitt has a chance but only if were desperate. They are a real bad match in terms of prospects and picks

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06-18-2017, 10:30 AM
  #95
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Looking at the protected lists makes me really happy that Sakic was patient with his moves.

He is going to be able to deal with Vegas potentially acquire players that would have been very difficult to pry from other teams. Plus he can now start to create new packages that could be more fitting to what the team was looking to get. I also feel like Soderberg could actually be a prime target for Vegas to take. They need to hit the salary floor, and if he has a decent season with them, he can be traded for other assets.

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06-18-2017, 10:32 AM
  #96
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The only young exposed D is dumba and I don't like him.

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06-18-2017, 10:35 AM
  #97
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The only young exposed D is dumba and I don't like him.
The last game I went to was when the Wild were playing the Kings and I got to hear this gem.

"Hey Dumba, they forgot part of your name."

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06-18-2017, 10:51 AM
  #98
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Think a deal around Vatanen or Manson could involve Avs, too?

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06-18-2017, 10:57 AM
  #99
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Ducks aren't losing Manson

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06-18-2017, 11:00 AM
  #100
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Think a deal around Vatanen or Manson could involve Avs, too?
Murray flat out said somewhere in an interview he's not losing Manson, and it's said Anaheim has already made a deal with LV. TPF (I know they are very unreliable) said Vatanen is the one going to Vegas - does he really fit here? A year older than Barrie and plays a very similiar style.


Anyways, this past week has been quite bad.


Montreal - traded the piece most appealing to the Avs, and it's been rumored by quality insiders Galchenyuk is available for a defender. If so, they are completely out on Duchene.

Islanders - it appears they are spending their 15th overall pick to protect some players. CDH is potentially among the ones they have negotiated to protect, but regardless, a piece the Avs undoubtedly would have wanted is now gone. If Vegas takes CDH too...well then it's 100% dead with them.

Columbus - it seems set in stone they've moved one of the pieces we'd have wanted in their 1st rounder. They also might have given up a prospect to boot. If Vegas takes JJ / takes JJ to trade him elsewhere then Murray is also guaranteed off the table, which means the Jackets as a trading option took a hit and might be dead.

Anaheim - I thought they were a slim possibility from the start, but they have either given really quality future pieces to protect all of their D, or they have convinced Vegas to take Vatanen in some other deal. They are likely out too, dealing with them only really made sense pre-expansion to help them out.

Minnesota - an even slimmer possibility from the start, but any chance there was making a deal with them is now certainly gone.



What's left? Nashville, best defender being Fabbro. Carolina, best realistic defender being Hadyn Fleury. This has gone very badly.

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