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Vegas Expansion Thread (Nate Schmidt selected)

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Old
06-20-2017, 02:17 PM
  #101
um
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Originally Posted by BiPolar Caps View Post
Shedding Orpik now not only helps immediately but it helps next season when it comes time to resign Carlson.
no it doesn't, their contracts both end next year...

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06-20-2017, 02:20 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by AlexBrovechkin8 View Post
There's no guarantee they resign Carlson, with or without Orpik's contract on the books. And even though I also want to see Orpik's contract off the books, it's in no way worth it to lose Vrana in order to make it happen. Vrana is the only dynamic offensive talent in the pipeline and the Caps have no 1st round pick this year in which they could hope to replace him. Letting go of Vrana is a huge overpayment.
That overpayment is as much of ridding the team of the Orpik contract and thus cap management as it is of protecting the likes of Schmidt and Grubauer, who in the case of Grubauer if traded thereafter would bring back more than Vrana would at this juncture.

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06-20-2017, 02:21 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by um View Post
no it doesn't, their contracts both end next year...
Orpik expires one year after Carlson
Carlson after 17-18
Orpik after 18-19

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Old
06-20-2017, 02:21 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by um View Post
no it doesn't, their contracts both end next year...
Orpik has two more years remaining on his contract which ends 2018/19 season.
Carlson has one more year remaining on his contract which ends 2017/18 season.

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06-20-2017, 02:30 PM
  #105
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oh, I thought it ended this year. Well I guess we can buy him out next year.

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06-20-2017, 02:31 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiPolar Caps View Post
That overpayment is as much of ridding the team of the Orpik contract and thus cap management as it is of protecting the likes of Schmidt and Grubauer, who in the case of Grubauer if traded thereafter would bring back more than Vrana would at this juncture.
Justify it however you'd like but you're admitting it's an overpayment, and I'm saying it's a terrible idea to overpay by that much even if the intention is justifiable. You're also making a lot of assumptions that may not be true.

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06-20-2017, 02:40 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by AlexBrovechkin8 View Post
Justify it however you'd like but you're admitting it's an overpayment, and I'm saying it's a terrible idea to overpay by that much even if the intention is justifiable. You're also making a lot of assumptions that may not be true.
its only an overpayment if you forgot about the expansion draft, but when Vegas can grab Grubauer for free rather than taking on a less valuable assets in Vrana and a dump in Orpik, than it's actually a pretty substantial underpayment.

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06-20-2017, 03:29 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by AlexBrovechkin8 View Post
In no way is shedding Orpik worth losing Vrana.
Depends on what you bring back in the subsequent Grubauer trade. In that scenario not only are they shedding Orpik, but they're also protecting Grubauer and Schmidt.

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06-20-2017, 03:39 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by AlexBrovechkin8 View Post
Justify it however you'd like but you're admitting it's an overpayment, and I'm saying it's a terrible idea to overpay by that much even if the intention is justifiable. You're also making a lot of assumptions that may not be true.
Actually my use of the word "overpayment" was just my repeating your remark.

According to Capfriendly, Caps are currently at 24,811,538 under the cap. This is before addressing the RFAs (Kuznetsov, Burakovsky, Schmidt, Orlov, Grubauer and Connolly).

Having GMGM take Orpik in the transaction that I mentioned, would add an additional 5.5 to the cap bringing it to 30,311,538.

Just addressing the RFAs, let's assume:
- Kuznetsov at 6.5
- Burakovsky at 3 (bridge contract?)
- Orlov at 4
- Schmidt at 3.5
- Connolly at 1.5
- Grubauer at 1.5
That's a total of 20 million right there.

Based on this scenario you have 10,311,528 in cap remaining after addressing the RFAs. You resign Oshie for 6.5 and Williams for 3 and you still have 811K remaining. Grubauer gets traded for a draft pick or asset.

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Old
06-20-2017, 03:42 PM
  #110
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Orlov gets more than $4M, but Schmidt will probably be substantially under that $3.5M figure, so it balances out. A substantially more proven Karl Alzner never passed $2.8M as an RFA, no way will Nate Schmidt get $3.5M.

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06-20-2017, 03:58 PM
  #111
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Why would GMGM take Orpik if he's already got plenty of defensemen to trade away? That drives the demand for Orpik way down.

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06-20-2017, 04:07 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by g00n View Post
Why would GMGM take Orpik if he's already got plenty of defensemen to trade away? That drives the demand for Orpik way down.
Helps them get to the 55.4 million dollar cap floor.

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06-20-2017, 04:15 PM
  #113
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Knowing McPhee he pre-agreed to all the deals out there to bait teams into exposing their most valuable pieces that they wouldn't have exposed otherwise. Now he's gonna either flat out take them or really jack up the price at the last second. He's got a ruthless poker reputation to uphold.

Manson is pretty much a Knight, so is Dumba, we'll probably have to give McPhee a 1st in addition to Grubauer to keep him away from Schmidt.

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06-20-2017, 04:24 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by BiPolar Caps View Post
Helps them get to the 55.4 million dollar cap floor.
If they're already taking on Grabovski and Clarkson that won't be an issue. Even aside from those two it likely won't be.

They could maybe shave off $2M of Orpik's deal and trade him for an okay return but I don't know how much of that they're willing to do. It would be a creative way of turning relatively toxic assets into something.

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06-20-2017, 04:32 PM
  #115
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If they're already taking on Grabovski and Clarkson that won't be an issue. Even aside from those two it likely won't be.

They could maybe shave off $2M of Orpik's deal and trade him for an okay return but I don't know how much of that they're willing to do. It would be a creative way of turning relatively toxic assets into something.

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06-20-2017, 05:28 PM
  #116
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This IS GMGM though, it's always possible he takes Orpik because he "wants a veteran presence" and follows it up by "liking the team the way it is".

A guy can dream...

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06-20-2017, 05:52 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Hivemind View Post
Three in 2004 (Ovechkin, Schultz, Green).
Also Three in 2002 (Eminger, Semin, Gordon).
Two in each of 2005, 2006, 2008, and 2012.


A nice preview of some GMGM drafting right there. Those are some brutal returns. I eagerly await watching him waste all 5 first round picks, or whatever he gets.



Got me thinking, GMGM's run as a first round drafter...

1997 Boynton
1999 Beech
2000 Sutherby
2002 Eminger, Semin, Gordon
2003 Fehr
2004 Ovechkin, Schultz, Green
2005 Pokulok, Finley
2006 Backstrom, Varlamov
2007 Alzner
2008 Gustfasson, Carlson
2009 Johansson
2010 Kuznetsov
2012 Wilson, Forsberg
2013 Burakovsky


-22 picks
-Only 3 of these players qualified for the ASG during their tenure as a Capital
-2 of these players never played one NHL game
-3 of these players would play in the NHL but never for the Capitals
-7 centers taken, 7 wingers taken, 7 defensemen taken, 1 goalie


I understand drafting is a crap shoot, but if we're being honest of those talents taken the talent I would grade at actually first round would be Burakovsky, Forsberg, Kuznetsov, Johansson, Carlson, Alzner, Backstrom, Varlamov, Ovechkin, Green and Semin. That's 11 picks, literally 50%. And the guys we missed on we biffed it pretty hard. Some guys are great talents that we graded too high (Fehr, Wilson) but to draft and never suit up 5 players in the first round over a period of 16 years? Yeeesh.


All that said, I have no idea if what the general return on first round picks in the NHL is, it might be 50%.

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06-20-2017, 05:59 PM
  #118
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GMGM's first round drafting is literally one of the last things you should take pot shots at him about. This is doubly true after he revamped the scouting staff during the firesale years. Few teams have a better record of 1st round drafting than the Capitals from 2004-2013, especially once you consider their draft position from 2008 onwards.

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06-20-2017, 06:41 PM
  #119
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His drafting never really impressed me. 15 years, he better have hit on a decent amount. Tanking deliberately certainly should make drafting a LOT easier. Patting yourself on the back for great picks after tanking only goes so far with me.

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06-20-2017, 07:50 PM
  #120
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In what world is Wilson worth protecting over Schmidt?

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06-20-2017, 07:52 PM
  #121
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In what world is Wilson worth protecting over Schmidt?
the world of the number game works. can only protect 4 forwards if they protect schmidt

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06-20-2017, 08:06 PM
  #122
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In what world is Wilson worth protecting over Schmidt?
Have to expose one of Burakovsky, Johansson, or Schmidt (assuming 8, 19, 92, 2, 9, and 74 are all protected). The team chose to expose Schmidt. Has nothing to do with Wilson.

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06-20-2017, 09:02 PM
  #123
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I saw a horrifying rumor on twitter - LVK taking Schmidt to trade to Pitt. Would be pretty much worst case scenario. Ack

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06-20-2017, 09:39 PM
  #124
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I saw a horrifying rumor on twitter - LVK taking Schmidt to trade to Pitt. Would be pretty much worst case scenario. Ack
Traded to Pitt for next to nothing. Or, for MAF.

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06-20-2017, 10:28 PM
  #125
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The cr*ppp on twitter which take it with a grain of salt if you are gullible is that the Fleury agrees to waive his NMC and the Penguins do not trade him so that LVK can select him in the expansion draft in addition the Penguins give a first round pick and in return they get Nate Schmidt.




This making it a 3 way trade:


LVK: 1st, Fleury

Pens: Schmidt


Caps:



.. As a Northern Virginia Penguins fan I think that the best bet for the Caps is then to beat GMGM to the punch and send PG to Arizona, bc they need a goalie, for a 2nd and a 3rd because I would bet all my money PG does not fetch a first. I think the going rate for all young Goalies this offseason is a 2nd and a 3rd. That at least gives the caps some picks to recoup some of the loses through trades.


I pray for you guys to be able to get rid of the Orpik contract, I told some of my hockey friends that celebrated it that it would be bad..... I think the Capitals best bet is to call up GMGM (LVK) and say we will give you Brooks Orpik at 50% your new assistant captain who will be really good with the young kids and Siegenthaler in exchange for Player X (Enstrom, Kruger, Boogosien, Kuliemn/Grabovski, etc) who is overpaid but can contribute in a different dynamic than Orpik. Basically trading bad contracts (preferably less term ala. 1 year left.) and slightly more skill for leadership.

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