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Old
10-28-2003, 06:10 AM
  #1
True Blue
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A little confused here

This is from todays Daily News:

"GM/coach Glen Sather made a fairly significant switch in his forward lines yesterday, putting Martin Rucinsky on the left wing of the checking line with Bobby Holik and Anson Carter. Rucinsky replaced Lacouture, who was moved onto Pascal Rheaume's flank, on the line Sather will match against opposing top lines."

Am I reading this wrong? The line to go against other teams top lines WILL NOT be the Holik line, but a line of Lacoutre-Rheaume-Lundmark? Are you effin' kidding me? Again Sather decides that Holik IS NOT the one to go against other teams top lines, but Rheaume is?
What is wrong here? Holik says he loves his checking role. It is a fact that it is his best role. He IS NOT a 2nd line center. Again, what the eff' was the point of signing him if he is not used against other teams top lines? Why is Jackass neutering the best checking center in the conference?

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10-28-2003, 06:21 AM
  #2
donpaulo
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I suspect it has more to do with lindros being out, and pascal not being able to handle 2nd line duty.
Thus he has to make due with the cards dealt him. Holik will take the ice time as #2 behind nedved until 88 returns. Personally I think its a good sign that Pascal is being asked to play 3rd line center and mess is being kept on the 4th line.

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10-28-2003, 06:23 AM
  #3
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I think it's worded awkwardly, the key part being:

"Rucinsky replaced LaCouture,..., on the line Sather will match against opposing top lines."

He did mention though that Holik is still the checking line. The part between the commas was just a sidenote.. I hope.

Looks like the lines if Kovalev is out would be

Hlavac - Nedved - Lundmark?
Rucinsky - Holik - Carter
Simon - Messier - Barnaby
LaCouture - Rheaume - Siklenka/Purinton/hfd callup

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10-28-2003, 06:24 AM
  #4
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I think you are reading it wrong. It's not written very clearly. Ignore the clause inserted in the middle and it's clearer.

<b>Rucinsky replaced Lacouture</b>, who was moved onto Pascal Rheaume's flank, <b>on the line Sather will match against opposing top lines.</b>

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10-28-2003, 06:25 AM
  #5
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Wouldn't playing Holik against the top lines ALL THE TIME, give him the necessary minutes? Think about it, if Holik is on the ice EVERY TIME the other teams top line is, he would get Lindros's even strength minutes. Play him against the other teams top lines and on the PP, and you'll see Holik get 20 minutes a night.
By not playing Holik against the other teams top lines, Jackass is ONCE AGAIN not putting his team in the best position to win a game. And ONCE AGAIN not putting his players in the best roles that are suited to him and what gives them the most amount of success.

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10-28-2003, 06:26 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak
I think you are reading it wrong. It's not written very clearly. Ignore the clause inserted in the middle and it's clearer.

<b>Rucinsky replaced Lacouture</b>, who was moved onto Pascal Rheaume's flank, <b>on the line Sather will match against opposing top lines.</b>
Thanks for the clear up.

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10-28-2003, 06:30 AM
  #7
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The wording is confusing but he means the Rosie-Holik-Carter line will be matched against the top units which is a good move as Dan has been absolutely invisible so far this year.He has done nothing and needs to be bounced.Hopefully Holik's line can keep the momentum going.

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10-28-2003, 06:45 AM
  #8
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Funny JR...

Dan's been invisible...and Rosie? It's not a bad shake-up...for Rosie that is. But it makes little sense unless Simon too plays with Rheaume and Lundmark moves to the left of Mess and Barnaby (which likely ain't happening because Simon-mess-Barnaby have been playing well as a unit). It makes such little sense for Lundmark to be playing with Lacouture and Rheaume at this stage of his career. It's time he began to break out offensively, and this doesn't do it. I'm starting to think that Sather doesn't think that highly of Lundmark's offensive capabilities.

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10-28-2003, 06:51 AM
  #9
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perhaps lundmark will play with nedved and hlavac if kovalev cant play tonight! but guys its not like lundmark has looked good this year.

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10-28-2003, 07:05 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
Dan's been invisible...and Rosie? It's not a bad shake-up...for Rosie that is. But it makes little sense unless Simon too plays with Rheaume and Lundmark moves to the left of Mess and Barnaby (which likely ain't happening because Simon-mess-Barnaby have been playing well as a unit). It makes such little sense for Lundmark to be playing with Lacouture and Rheaume at this stage of his career. It's time he began to break out offensively, and this doesn't do it. I'm starting to think that Sather doesn't think that highly of Lundmark's offensive capabilities.
Your right Fletch, Rosie has done nothing but Dan Lacouyture is supposed to be a energy guy who plays the body and when he's not doing that he brings nothing, nada, zip to the table.Rosie is a good defensive winger and will add more to that checking line than Dan does at present.

As for Lundy, he has to EARN his minutes to demand that he MUST be in offensive roles.He hasn't even shown flashes offensively.He has been terrible with the puck and still displays no poise in making plays develop or in carrying the puck, he isn't getting open in the slot to get his nice wrister off and he's done little positives offensively to dictate he's a "must be on this line" player.He's been disappointing and needs to step it up.

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10-28-2003, 07:25 AM
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I see part of that, JR..

and I've been disappointed too in his play but to me, right now they need to give this kid a chance to play in an offensive role and see what he's got. He has picked up his play of late, and really isn't doing much less scoring than any other Rangers. I'm still upset Rosie got the nod from the get-go with Lindros, and Simon with Messier. Lundmark's best play came with Messier, I'm not sure why we can't see that again.

I just want to know what this kid's got.

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10-28-2003, 07:30 AM
  #12
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I keep wondering what the problem with Dan Lacouture being invisible is. He is the kind of player that really shouldn't really be noticeable. He does nothing exceptional so if you notice him, it probably means he's done something wrong.

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10-28-2003, 07:33 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
right now they need to give this kid a chance to play in an offensive role and see what he's got.
Exactly Fletch. This is starting to become Manny Part Deux. No he has not scored much, but has Rucinsky? Kovalev? Hlavac? And playing on a line w/ Rheume and Lacoutre is going to do what for his offensive abilities? In order to put up ANY offensive showing on that line, he is going to have do it by himself. Why is it that other teams put their offensive prospects in a position to succeed? The 'Lanche played Hejuk and Tanguay with Sakic when they came up. Detroit played Datsyuk and Zettenberg with offensive players. If you want Lundmark to develop, you have to play him with either Lindros, Nedved, or even Holik. Not effin' Rheume and Lacoutre. How is he supposed to develop? Not by playing with a 5th line center and a 4th liner.

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10-28-2003, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
I keep wondering what the problem with Dan Lacouture being invisible is. He is the kind of player that really shouldn't really be noticeable. He does nothing exceptional so if you notice him, it probably means he's done something wrong.
A very valid point, but I think he can/should be noticed in small ways.. Like sticking his nose in if a skill player gets in trouble, or having a high energy shift on a cycle, or killing off 30 seconds of a penalty by digging in the corner etc..

I'd ike to "notice" him do the little things more, but yes, it's avery valid point that he mostly unnoticeable..

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10-28-2003, 07:36 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
I keep wondering what the problem with Dan Lacouture being invisible is. He is the kind of player that really shouldn't really be noticeable. He does nothing exceptional so if you notice him, it probably means he's done something wrong.
He was A LOT more physical last year. That's how he gets noticed. His physical play has been dormant all year. If he is not taking the body or killing penalties, what good is he? What is he doing that a Scott or a Murray could not?

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10-28-2003, 07:43 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davisian
A very valid point, but I think he can/should be noticed in small ways.. Like sticking his nose in if a skill player gets in trouble, or having a high energy shift on a cycle, or killing off 30 seconds of a penalty by digging in the corner etc..
..
Lacouture does need to be noticed for doing things as D just listed if he is to bring value to this team.He's not making quiet little plays that are going unoticed but rather isn't doing ANYTHING at all and that's a problem, especially from Holik's line which is suppossed to be the stopper line but also the line that is suppossed to bring some rough stuff and hardnose play.

He had one play where I said, good play Dan and that was him hustling down the boards to chip it over to Lundy vs the Devs in preseason.Since then I haven't said his name once.

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10-28-2003, 08:14 AM
  #17
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Jr...

It sounds as though you're looking for offense from Lacouture, for the most part. He's been soud defensively, and he's done a very good job clogging the neutral zone. He hasn't banged much, although there hasn't been a lot of dump-n-chase from that line where he could effectively bang. To me, he is a fourth liner, but I don't mind too much not noticing him if he's playing well defensively and the scorers are scoring.

And yeah, TB, Manny Part Deux. I have a feeling that Sather's made up his mind that Lundmark is not going to be the scorer in the NHL that you'd want him to be. He may be right, but I thought that he could've been ridden more when he was playing well, but his time seemed to just decrease.

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10-28-2003, 08:39 AM
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Not looking for scoring From Lacouture at all Fletch but would like to see some spark.And I agree 100% that Dan is a 4th liner and from the start of the yr I didn't like him with Holik.

I want to see a little spunk out of Holik's line.I want then to remain defensively resonsible but if we are to get the most out of the 45 F'in million we gave to Bobby it's best to have some other physical, hard hitting players on his line that have decent skill as well.Simon for example would be a better fit then Dan has been, slow feet and all.

Dan should be 4th line material and give us high energy shifts in what little even strenght time he'd recieve as well as being one of our top PKer's.

As for Lundy, I really, I mean really want the kid to succeed.He's home grown, has shown a real commitment to wanting to be the best possible player he can be and we can use a speedster who isn't afraid to get dirty to a degree in our lineup, However, I've been very disappointed thus far with his results and don't agree with everybody demanding he be forcefeed in a spot that he himself has given no indication he'd excel at.

He's had time on every one of the 4 lines since he's been here and had time, some limted, with each of our centers and hasn't grabbed hold of a spot yet by his play.All the call sfor him needing to be in an offensive role need to step back and realize that Jamie hasn't been able to do anything offensively both with and without the puck.

He hasn't had confidence with the puck on his blade, has shown zero poise in making scoring chances develop, hasn't been able to reach that critical point where you can slow the play down and make good decisions, hasn't used his speed to make things happen and worst of all hasn't even gotten himself into prime scoring positions at all yet this year.He has a great wrister but if he can't find open ice in the slot he'll never get the chance to use it as he should, especially with a guy like Bobby able to work the boards behind the net and feed it infront if Jamie were in prime scoring position.

The kid ain't done yet but HE has to make it happen, HE has to raise his play to EARN prime icetime.The guy has had ample icetime to start the year and has yet to sieze the additional playing time with what he's shown thus far--bottom line.

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10-28-2003, 08:45 AM
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I was disappointed...

that he wasn't tearing things up in Hartford when down there. I remember him being sent down and having a productive first couple games, but tailed off considerably and had no points in the playoffs (albeit in two games, but if you're a top two liner in the NHL, I'd expect production in almost every game...especially in the playoffs).

Personally, I think the left side fits him better and I liked what I saw with him on Mess' left last season. It's got to be a bit tough on the kid to go from center, to left wing (on a scoring line) to right wing (on a checking line). It's almost as if Sather wants to keep him around because he's young and isn't a libaility, but doesn't want him to get meaningful minutes and is plugging him here and there.

I would like to see him on Mess' left again though.

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10-28-2003, 01:56 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
And yeah, TB, Manny Part Deux. I have a feeling that Sather's made up his mind that Lundmark is not going to be the scorer in the NHL that you'd want him to be. He may be right, but I thought that he could've been ridden more when he was playing well, but his time seemed to just decrease.
Manny Part Deux?!?!! Sather made up his mind?!?!? ugh...come on guys. You are smarter then this. Wasn't it just 2 games ago that Sather switched Lundmark to Lindros' right wing which is definitely viewed as a spot on a scoring line. What screwed it up is that Lindros had to up and get hurt again. So Rheume comes in for, what, 2 weeks and then once Lindros is back you can expect Lundmark to be on his right side again with Rucinsky back on the left. I don't think Sather has given up on Lunmark and he just doesn't want to juggle ALL four lines this early just to accomidate Lundmark's offensive needs. If this was a permanent move then I'd be as pissed off as much as you guys.

And I also feel a little dissapointed that Lundmark hasn't shown more this year but hopefully he'll come around.

On D-Lac: I agree with the thought that his game is the show of energy along with checking which throws teams off their game and puts the Rangers in the game and he hasn't done much of that so far this season. Those are his strengths and he has to play to those strengths. He can go unnoticed on a checking line but has a (+/-) of -2 so he's on the ice for more goals against then goals for. Moving him onto Rheume's line temporarily gives him a center that plays the same type of energy game. They forecheck/muck in the corners while Lundmark provides a little scoring touch along with some youthful exuberance also.

That leaves Rucinsky on the checking line which is ok with me since I think Rucinsky has been decent defensively. Granted I think this all changes once Lindros gets back anyways. No big deal.

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10-28-2003, 02:00 PM
  #21
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It does sound crazy...

but to go from Lindros' right (in a scoring position) to Rheaume's right and 10 minutes of ice time? Just seems a bit out of whack to me.

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10-28-2003, 02:11 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
but to go from Lindros' right (in a scoring position) to Rheaume's right and 10 minutes of ice time? Just seems a bit out of whack to me.
so the rangers should break up all the lines because lindros went down?

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10-28-2003, 02:32 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
but to go from Lindros' right (in a scoring position) to Rheaume's right and 10 minutes of ice time? Just seems a bit out of whack to me.
Yep I know, it does to me too and we'll see what happens when Lindros actually comes back but the thing is where do you put Lundmark if not where he is now for the next two weeks. Honestly Messier's line has looked great. The Russo-Czech line has looked better the last few games. No reason to break either of those two lines up to accomodate Lundmark. Lundmark was already on Holik's line and it wasn't really working. They could put him back there but I'm guessing that Lindros will be back sooner then later so just have Lundmark play on an energy line for a few games where his youthful exuberance, that everybody has been talking about, will pay off. Remember that he'll only play with guys like Rheume until Lindros gets back then he has to be playing with one of Lindros, Mess, Holik and Nedved. Now if he starts getting benched in 3rd periods or worse, sat out for a few games then watch out I'd be pissed........and worried.

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10-28-2003, 02:42 PM
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Break up all the lines?

no, but if you want scoring from a guy, do you put him with a struggling left winger and an out of shape checker? I mean, would Lundmark have fit on Holik's left side (which to me is Lundmark's better position), with Lacouture playing with Rheaume, presumbly a bit of a better fit on a fourth grinding line?

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10-28-2003, 02:47 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
no, but if you want scoring from a guy, do you put him with a struggling left winger and an out of shape checker? I mean, would Lundmark have fit on Holik's left side (which to me is Lundmark's better position), with Lacouture playing with Rheaume, presumbly a bit of a better fit on a fourth grinding line?
Oh I somewhat agree and orignally I wanted Lundmark, just like you, on the left side so he can shoot his nice one timers off the pass but everybody that counts (ie the coaching staff) doesn't think that he'd be effective on the left side. Maybe it's because playing guys "out of position" hasn't worked well here the past couple years. If that's the case then you let him hang out for five games on the energy line then put him back with a scoring center once Lindros gets back. No major harm nor foul. Actually i think D-Lac will snap out of it playing with Rheume. Just a hunch. I think you'll see that line cause some turnovers and scoring chances tonight.

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