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Who's Your 2C Target?

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Old
06-22-2017, 08:57 AM
  #1
MrJoshua
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Who's Your 2C Target?

So, we've all talked about needing to improve the 2C position on the team. If you're Poile, who's your target of choice during the off-season?

Do you go after a trade? Duchene might be available for a price. What about RNH in Edmonton? They might be looking to move him because McDavid is entering his 3rd season and that ELC is about to run out, and they'll be backing the money truck up to his house and telling him to take what he wants.

Or do you target someone in free agency? Hanzal should be good for 12-15 goals or so at a reasonable price. Nick Bonino has been mentioned on here before. Sam Gagner had 50 points last season. And if the team is in win now mode, there's always the possibility of a short-term deal for Jumbo Joe Thornton (although I think it's pretty unlikely he leaves San Jose).

So what do you do? Who's your pick of the litter? What would you be willing to give up if you focus on a trade target? What would your lineup look like with your new addition (and subtractions in the case of a trade)?

It's the off-season, so, let's have some wild conjecture.

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06-22-2017, 09:02 AM
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Jonesey
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Shall I rank them in order I want them?

1. Tavares (longest shot but if he doesn't sign on July 1st, Poile needs to at least make the call)
2. Duchene
3. Nugent-Hopkins
4. Bozak/Kadri (I'd take either one)
5. Thornton (I don't think he has enough left in the tank)
6. Hanzal
7. Gagner
8. Bonino

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06-22-2017, 09:13 AM
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MrJoshua
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Originally Posted by Jonesey View Post
Shall I rank them in order I want them?

1. Tavares (longest shot but if he doesn't sign on July 1st, Poile needs to at least make the call)
2. Duchene
3. Nugent-Hopkins
4. Bozak/Kadri (I'd take either one)
5. Thornton (I don't think he has enough left in the tank)
6. Hanzal
7. Gagner
8. Bonino
I think listing in order is a good way to do it. But what do you think the team would have to give up to get Tavares? I'd think the Islanders would want an arm, a leg, ten virgins, and P.K. Subban's firstborn son.

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06-22-2017, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by MrJoshua View Post
I think listing in order is a good way to do it. But what do you think the team would have to give up to get Tavares? I'd think the Islanders would want an arm, a leg, ten virgins, and P.K. Subban's firstborn son.
It would start with one of Ellis/Ekholm/Josi.

I think Ellis is who we would be most likely to deal, followed by Josi and then Ekholm.

You would have to be sure that Tavares would sign an extention here before we would make that kind of move though.

Tavares (extended) for Ellis, Aberg, Kamanev, 1st? I don't know if NYI would be interested but I'd have a hard time saying no.

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06-22-2017, 09:19 AM
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To me it is Duchene or just sit it out. Tavares is not going to happen as we would lose more than we would gain. We also have a #1 center already. We need a 2C. Kadri wouldn't be all bad but I really don't like that he loses so many draws at the dot. You have to protect him way to much because of that. Most everyone else available wouldn't be enough of an upgrade to what we have to lose assets for.

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06-22-2017, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonesey View Post
It would start with one of Ellis/Ekholm/Josi.

I think Ellis is who we would be most likely to deal, followed by Josi and then Ekholm.

You would have to be sure that Tavares would sign an extention here before we would make that kind of move though.

Tavares (extended) for Ellis, Aberg, Kamanev, 1st? I don't know if NYI would be interested but I'd have a hard time saying no.
I think it's going to depend on what his extension costs. He's had a couple of superstar seasons, but I'm not sure he's a PPG+ guy moving forward. He's probably going to be in the 30-goal, 70-point range, give or take a few. If that's available for, say, $8M/year, OK, great, make the move. If it's more like $10M+ (which is more like what I'm expecting)? Then I think I stay away.

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06-22-2017, 09:27 AM
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If Fisher is back next season and we can't make a move to get Duchene than I would be fine with giving Sissons a chance at the 2C spot. Jarnkork as the 3C and Fisher as the 4C. If it doesn't look to be working out well you can move Jarnkrok/fisher up and Sissons down. Kamanev may be getting closer to being ready as well.

If Fisher retires than Poile will need to add a center for sure.

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06-22-2017, 09:30 AM
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Realistically we're probably looking at Bonino, Hanzal or Bozak. None are actual 2Cs, all are better than what we have. Bozak I guess would be preferable because he's on a 1 year deal and won't require a free agent overpayment contract.

And rolling with Sissons and/or Jarnkrok as a 2C to start the season is a horrible idea.

Fiala - Sissons - Aberg/Smith? That's maybe the worst second line in the entire league.


Last edited by Mortiest Morty: 06-22-2017 at 09:37 AM.
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Old
06-22-2017, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesey View Post
Shall I rank them in order I want them?

1. Tavares (longest shot but if he doesn't sign on July 1st, Poile needs to at least make the call)
2. Duchene
3. Nugent-Hopkins
4. Bozak/Kadri (I'd take either one)
5. Thornton (I don't think he has enough left in the tank)
6. Hanzal
7. Gagner
8. Bonino
My issue with Tavares vs Duchene is while you can argue that Tavares is more desirable, will you be able to re-sign him as a UFA after giving up a metric **** ton to land him? Meanwhile, Duchene would require a whole lot in return as well, and maybe not as dynamic as JT, he's probably throwing a party if we trade for him. I think it would be much, much more likely to have him in the fold past his current contract if all goes well here. I'm more willing to explore all options for Duchene.

As far as the rest of the list, I'm all about trading for guys who have good term left on their deals, but I think Bozak could be had for a fair price. One year left and they have an insane surplus of centers. At least I'm assuming Kadri would come at a undesirable-ish cost. I think Bozak is more our speed.

I'm not so sure Thornton is gassed out yet but I just don't see him leaving SJ. It's not like they're spiraling downwards. Although if he does leave for a true shot at a Cup, I'm not sure this is where he'd go. We made a nice run this year but when you think of last-ditch effort teams to go to for a Cup, we aren't on that list yet I'd imagine.

I'd have Bonino a little bit higher but, eh, to each their own.

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06-22-2017, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesey View Post
Shall I rank them in order I want them?

1. Tavares (longest shot but if he doesn't sign on July 1st, Poile needs to at least make the call)
2. Duchene
3. Nugent-Hopkins
4. Bozak/Kadri (I'd take either one)
5. Thornton (I don't think he has enough left in the tank)
6. Hanzal
7. Gagner
8. Bonino
I would absolultely not break up the big four on D... that's a strength that no other team in the league has, and if it comes down to it, it's better to keep that incredible strength on D and live with a non-ideal situation up the middle.

So that takes #1/2/3 off the list. A trade for any of those guys almost has to include one of the D.

The Preds are actually lucky to have a quality top line center, and ample candidates for #3/4 center positions. Many teams aren't in that good shape. So if you have to take a less-than-ideal #2C, it's not the end of the world. It's not even the end of the world if you just work with Jarnkrok/Sissons/Fisher either.

I'd keep the rest of the contending lineup intact, and "settle" for a committee solution up the middle. Even if Hanzal or Bonino aren't a huge step up from Jarnkrok, they are still decent players, and you only spend money to get them. Bonino has Cup experience, Hanzal has played some heavy minutes. Both are injury risks, however. Both will also get stupid contracts that exceed their worth. But the Preds ought to be flush with cash and with prestige from the playoff run, the team is in an amazing cap situation, so one strength they can leverage is the ability to hand out a stupid contract to cover off a specific area of need.

1. Hanzal
2. Bonino

I assume Joe Thornton isn't leaving San Jose, but of course it doesn't hurt to ask just to be sure... if you could get him for 1 or even 2 years, that would be a lot less risky than a stupid 5-year deal to Hanzal or Bonino. But probably not a realistic option.

If the Leafs get to the point of selling low on Bozak, ok, worth considering if it doesn't touch the lineup. Just prospects or a pick for Bozak could be a good deal.

3. Bozak - if the price is right

I didn't watch Gagner enough to be confident of his ability to reproduce his rebound numbers. I'd be worried that he'd fade when the going got tough in the playoffs, though, and the Preds need to build a lineup with an eye to going deep again.

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06-22-2017, 10:27 AM
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Gagner is extraordinarily unlikely to be a good option at #2C. He spent a ton of time on the #1 powerplay in the league (and, admittedly, was an integral part of such), and spent all his 5-on-5 time on the fourth line. He's very much a specialist.

He could be valuable here, but not in that particular role.

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06-22-2017, 10:50 AM
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If Poile was wiling to trade one of the top-4 D to land a center, he would have done so pre-draft and gone with the 7-3 route. 7-3 would have allowed us to protect Neal, Krok, Sissons, and Aberg which would have left one of Wilson or Smith's contracts being unloaded to Vegas. It would have actually been an acceptable solution to the dilemma that we were in. Since he did not go this route, the top-4 is obviously untouchable.

I'll also make the argument, that if Poile planned on trading for a legitimate 2C, there would have not been an urgent need to protect Jarnkrok. I think that our C's for next year are already on the roster.

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06-22-2017, 10:55 AM
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1. Duchene
2. RNH

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06-22-2017, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tampa pred View Post
If Poile was wiling to trade one of the top-4 D to land a center, he would have done so pre-draft and gone with the 7-3 route. 7-3 would have allowed us to protect Neal, Krok, Sissons, and Aberg which would have left one of Wilson or Smith's contracts being unloaded to Vegas. It would have actually been an acceptable solution to the dilemma that we were in. Since he did not go this route, the top-4 is obviously untouchable.

I'll also make the argument, that if Poile planned on trading for a legitimate 2C, there would have not been an urgent need to protect Jarnkrok. I think that our C's for next year are already on the roster.
I agree that the top 4 D are set in stone and not moving, and for much the same logic you laid out above. I think, though, that if you can add a 2C for a package of prospects and picks with maybe a bottom-6 roster player, Poile would do it. And I'm not sure Duchene couldn't be had for a deal around a 1st, Fabbro, etc.

I will say, though, that if no additional center is brought in ... well, didn't this team play the entire second half of last season with the centers now on the roster? I think right now the lineup looks something like this:

Forsberg-Johansen-Arvidsson
Fiala-Jarnkrok-Smith/Aberg
Wilson-Fisher/Sissons-Aberg/Smith
McLeod/Salomaki-Sissons/Fisher-Watson

That makes me uncomfortable. We don't know how Fiala will rebound from his injury. We don't know if Aberg (or any of our other young guys, really) is actually ready for that next step and a full-time roster spot. We don't know if Wilson or Smith will rebound to not-entirely-awful levels.

Adding a solid 2C pushes Jarnkrok either to 2RW or down to the third line and, IMO, would make the whole lineup much better.

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06-22-2017, 11:02 AM
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To me it is Duchene or just sit it out.
this is it. I say Duchene or RNH. But it has to be Duchene. And I think it could be done without giving up someone in our top 4.

Fabbro + 1st RD (30th OVR) + C+/B prospect - the problem is there are other teams that can offer a young, playable defenseman now.

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06-22-2017, 11:20 AM
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I don't want to trade for a 2C if it's going to break the bank or the farm system unless it's a can't miss and we have the player long term. Alternatively, the Preds just need to figure out how to live with Krok/Sissons as 2C and pick up a good winger in FA that they're ok paying for the next few years and doesn't jeopardize future ability to sign young players to long term deals.

The most likely answer to getting a good 2C is breaking up the D but not sure I really care for that idea either since the formula finally paid off last season.

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06-22-2017, 11:23 AM
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The only thing that makes sense with regards to trading for a 2C is if Sissons is part of the package moving out. Otherwise, why not just let Vegas pick between Krok and Sissons knowing that you have a 2C coming in a trade.

Fabbro, 2017 1st, and Sissons for Duchene?

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06-22-2017, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by tampa pred View Post
The only thing that makes sense with regards to trading for a 2C is if Sissons is part of the package moving out. Otherwise, why not just let Vegas pick between Krok and Sissons knowing that you have a 2C coming in a trade.

Fabbro, 2017 1st, and Sissons for Duchene?
More than fine with me

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06-22-2017, 11:36 AM
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The only thing that makes sense with regards to trading for a 2C is if Sissons is part of the package moving out. Otherwise, why not just let Vegas pick between Krok and Sissons knowing that you have a 2C coming in a trade.

Fabbro, 2017 1st, and Sissons for Duchene?
Yes, please.

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06-22-2017, 11:45 AM
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How far away is Fabbro from being NHL ready? Could he replace any of our top 4D next season? 2 seasons?

And by replace I don't think he has to be great. He just needs to be able to perform as a standard average 2nd pairing guy.

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06-22-2017, 11:46 AM
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How far away is Fabbro from being NHL ready? Could he replace any of our top 4D next season? 2 seasons?

And by replace I don't think he has to be great. He just needs to be able to perform as a standard average 2nd pairing guy.
Well seeing as he's going the college route I'd say maybe a year more but he has to decide if he wants to leave college or graduate with a degree before coming into the league.

The problem here is always the Vesey route, but if I remember correctly, Fabbro wanted to be drafted by us.

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06-22-2017, 11:49 AM
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If Duchene or RNH could be had in a package that didn't include a top-4 D, they'd already have been dealt. Certainly Duchene would have.

What good is $10M in empty cap space for a contending team? Standing pat shouldn't be an option. The Preds just missed a Cup, and the lack of depth at center was one reason. Hanzal or Bonino on a 5x$5M deal would be extravagant and a total overpayment for either of those players... but then, that's precisely why the Preds could actually get them. It doesn't require giving up anything or finding a fit with another team, there is no wishful thinking needed... you can plunk that contract offer on the table July 1st, and it's pretty much a done deal.

And the Preds are in the sweet spot of being able to shrug it off if they hand out that stupid contract and it fails. They've got 2 full years left in cap heaven, and then even after 2 years, Rinne and Wilson's contracts are up, so they can manage Ellis, etc, etc... there is basically no harm in carrying one really stupid bad contract at only $5M, if it turns out that way.

Signing a guy to a potentially awful contract like that wouldn't normally be my cup of tea, but it just seems like the perfect storm of circumstances right now for this team with their specific roster and payroll configuration, and the woeful UFA market this year.

I mean who knows, maybe it doesn't have to be as awful as 5x$5M, maybe the team has enough Cup-final prestige, tax advantage, etc, that one of those guys would sign a somewhat less-outrageous deal. But anyway, I'd at least treat this as one of the top options in the next week or so.

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06-22-2017, 11:49 AM
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Well seeing as he's going the college route I'd say maybe a year more but he has to decide if he wants to leave college or graduate with a degree before coming into the league.

The problem here is always the Vesey route, but if I remember correctly, Fabbro wanted to be drafted by us.
Would a potential trade of Fabbro to Avs just transfer his rights forward eg. could he can pull a Vesey on the Avs?

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06-22-2017, 11:52 AM
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Would a potential trade of Fabbro to Avs just transfer his rights forward eg. could he can pull a Vesey on the Avs?
I'm sure that would certainly be in the back of Sakic's mind. But then again if we add our 1st this year, Colorado is going to have 2 1st's this year (4th and 30th) and get a 1st round pick from last year (Fabbro) and someone like Sissons or Trenin, Moy, etc.

I think Kamenev is off limits due to our lack of center depth if Fisher does retire and completely opens that hole at #2C spot.

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06-22-2017, 11:55 AM
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Would a potential trade of Fabbro to Avs just transfer his rights forward eg. could he can pull a Vesey on the Avs?
Yes he could.

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