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At 30th Overall the Predators Select Eeli Tolvanen

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Old
06-27-2017, 10:24 AM
  #101
Drake744
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
That's so true, as evidenced by the years of Predators fans claiming that Legwand wasn't a good skater when he was among the best in the league.
Ha that was my original thought as well

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06-27-2017, 10:27 AM
  #102
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Great posts, and that's not even to mention that "good skating" is a fairly nebulous term in and of itself. For example, Subban is an excellent skater, but he's slow. He has fantastic edge work and can change direction on a dime, which allows for great defensive positioning. But his top end speed isn't very high. So, he's a great skater, but not fast. Then you have guys like Craig Smith who has good top-end speed, but seems to fall down half the time when he tries to change direction. I'd say Subban is by far the better skater between the two, yet Smith is certainly faster.

Then on top of that you have guys like Ellis who are average skaters in both top-end speed and agility, yet have the hockey IQ to read plays well so they're moving a half-step before anyone else on the ice which means they tend to be in the right place. That quick first step can make up for a lot.

So, to me, it can be pretty hard to define what makes one a "good" skater, and even harder to define what "good" skating attributes are necessary for someone to be a contributing player in the NHL.

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06-27-2017, 10:34 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
That's so true, as evidenced by the years of Predators fans claiming that Legwand wasn't a good skater when he was among the best in the league.
Yes, in fact I also remember very well that Legwand was a perfect example of a player who was in reality a very fast skater, although he looked slow to those people's eyes whom were watching his leg movement frequency. Indeed a very good example.

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06-27-2017, 10:37 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by MrJoshua View Post
Great posts, and that's not even to mention that "good skating" is a fairly nebulous term in and of itself. For example, Subban is an excellent skater, but he's slow. He has fantastic edge work and can change direction on a dime, which allows for great defensive positioning. But his top end speed isn't very high. So, he's a great skater, but not fast. Then you have guys like Craig Smith who has good top-end speed, but seems to fall down half the time when he tries to change direction. I'd say Subban is by far the better skater between the two, yet Smith is certainly faster.

Then on top of that you have guys like Ellis who are average skaters in both top-end speed and agility, yet have the hockey IQ to read plays well so they're moving a half-step before anyone else on the ice which means they tend to be in the right place. That quick first step can make up for a lot.

So, to me, it can be pretty hard to define what makes one a "good" skater, and even harder to define what "good" skating attributes are necessary for someone to be a contributing player in the NHL.
You went clearly deeper with all the affecting attributes than I did. Good post!

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06-27-2017, 01:11 PM
  #105
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I thought back to a couple of Russians that we thought would be our sniper.

Shishkanov (archives with you actually talking about him )
Glazachev
Shishkanov is a good call. I do remember him being listed as a sniper, he just never could get it done in the NHL. Man, that was 16 years ago, good job on that one....

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06-28-2017, 11:37 AM
  #106
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According to one finnish sports media Tolvanen has signed with Jokerit to play in KHL next season.

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06-28-2017, 01:01 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by mirasane View Post
According to one finnish sports media Tolvanen has signed with Jokerit to play in KHL next season.
If this is correct, I wonder how much time on ice he'll get. Jokerit has four pretty good lines and at least 10 wingers that should be clearly better options than an 18-year old Tolvanen and I say this as pretty big Tolvanen fan.

Of course they could just play Tolvanen on the PP and keep feeding him onetimers

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06-28-2017, 01:17 PM
  #108
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If this is correct, I wonder how much time on ice he'll get. Jokerit has four pretty good lines and at least 10 wingers that should be clearly better options than an 18-year old Tolvanen and I say this as pretty big Tolvanen fan.

Of course they could just play Tolvanen on the PP and keep feeding him onetimers
I think the head coach, Jukka Jalonen, will take good care of him and his usage.

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06-28-2017, 01:20 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by HockeyHistorian View Post
If this is correct, I wonder how much time on ice he'll get. Jokerit has four pretty good lines and at least 10 wingers that should be clearly better options than an 18-year old Tolvanen and I say this as pretty big Tolvanen fan.

Of course they could just play Tolvanen on the PP and keep feeding him onetimers
If he could get a role in one of the top three lines and get a decent role in PP this might be good choice for his development but if he is gonna be just a rotation player without any proper icetime it might damage his chanches of making it to NHL.

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06-28-2017, 02:27 PM
  #110
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I'm not a fan of this decision. The KHL is not a development league. By all reports, he's a one-trick pony who needs to work on many different areas of his game to have a good chance at the NHL. He's likely not going to have anyone who cares about helping him with that over there. They're liable to use him for what he's already elite at and not use him for much else. That's not a recipe for growth. If he had gone to the AHL, then the organization could've ensured that he got a lot of ice time in all situations and worked with him throughout the year. Now, the organization has to just hope that the player that they get back has progressed.

Call me a pessimist, but I'm afraid that he's going to return in a year without having developed enough in the areas that he needs to, and, faced with the same choice again (AHL or KHL), may decide to return to the paycheck and lifestyle of the KHL. That can become a cycle, where not being quite ready for the NHL and not being willing to go to the AHL ultimately leads to a player staying overseas indefinitely, preferring to have it easier in a smaller pond, rather than give it up to put in the work and sacrifice to make it in the largest. I hope that I'm wrong. It might not be as concerning if he didn't have the rumored attitude issue, which make me wonder if he really does think that he's hot stuff and wants to get paid for doing what he does best without being expected to work on what he doesn't. I hope that he proves me wrong, though.


Last edited by Osprey: 06-28-2017 at 05:14 PM.
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06-28-2017, 03:41 PM
  #111
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Jokerit has a farm contract with a Finnish second league team Kiekko-Vantaa. So it is possible, that Tolvanen could play there as well and probably in the top line.

But if he stays up in the KHL, Jokerit coach Jalonen has a really posession-oriented mindset and relies in a tight team defence. I think those are both quite beneficial things for a jr league player to learn before playing in the NHL. Of course, some doubt can be placed on his usage there, but Jalonen is a smart coach and Jokerit will have better players for 4th line duties, so if he struggles he will still be playing with men, but in a lower league.

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06-28-2017, 03:43 PM
  #112
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Osprey went into more detail, but I feel the same, kid needs to be in a developmental league. Period.

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06-29-2017, 06:10 AM
  #113
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I'm not a fan of this decision either. AHL would be the best place for him.

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06-29-2017, 07:25 AM
  #114
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I'm not a fan of this decision either. AHL would be the best place for him.
AHL or Liiga over playing on a 3rd line centered by Antti Pihlström. I hope the rumor is false, for his sake.

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06-29-2017, 07:41 AM
  #115
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Don't like this at all. Was hoping to see him in the A.

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06-29-2017, 10:04 AM
  #116
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AHL is the best way to go for him. He would play against men and other promising prospects while on North American ice and playing legit minutes.
Now if he doesn't produce instantly he gets basically no minutes compared to what he would have gotten in AHL.

That is if the rumor is true.

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06-29-2017, 10:28 AM
  #117
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AHL is the best way to go for him. He would play against men and other promising prospects while on North American ice and playing legit minutes.
Now if he doesn't produce instantly he gets basically no minutes compared to what he would have gotten in AHL.

That is if the rumor is true.
How long before we call BS on this rumor? There's nothing anywhere outside of one tweet, any news articles refer back only to this tweet as well. Eeli has been in Nashville the entire time, he was doing some charity work yesterday and you would assume that he'll be at least at training camp.

I mean, we can't say 100% that it's false, but i'd lean that way until either Eeli or the Predators or even Jokerit issues a statement to confirm.

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06-29-2017, 10:30 AM
  #118
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I don't know why, if he was committed to playing for Boston College on North American ice, he wouldn't prefer to just play in Milwaukee. Going back to Europe seems like a lateral move at best.

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06-29-2017, 10:35 AM
  #119
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I don't know why, if he was committed to playing for Boston College on North American ice, he wouldn't prefer to just play in Milwaukee. Going back to Europe seems like a lateral move at best.
It does seem strange. You could say maybe he wants to play back in Finland, but if that was the case, why'd he go over to the USHL in the first place and commit to a college? The only thing that might make sense is money, but I have no idea how much a player like him would make in the KHL, I would imagine not a ton, but probably a good bit more than the AHL.

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06-29-2017, 10:35 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
How long before we call BS on this rumor? There's nothing anywhere outside of one tweet, any news articles refer back only to this tweet as well. Eeli has been in Nashville the entire time, he was doing some charity work yesterday and you would assume that he'll be at least at training camp.

I mean, we can't say 100% that it's false, but i'd lean that way until either Eeli or the Predators or even Jokerit issues a statement to confirm.
To be honest I don't see a reason for Jokerit to even pick him up. Why go after an 18 year old player that hasn't played on European sized ice for 2 years now? Also he would have to be in an important role (at least 2nd line winger and 2nd PP time)
Are they really expecting him to be an impact player for the 1-2 years he would hypothetically be there for?
Then again I don't know anything about Jokerit after they left Liiga/FEL.

I would call BS on the rumor.

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06-29-2017, 10:47 AM
  #121
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What a ridiculous move if true. Khl is too much at this point while the farm team is too soft place for development.

I guess that with this move Jokerit bought general goodwill among regular fans with the expense of Eeli's development.

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06-29-2017, 11:35 AM
  #122
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He needs to sign that ELC

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06-29-2017, 04:33 PM
  #123
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So I got to see Tolvanen playing at centennial today. My initial thoughts: Well let's start with the obvious...he's got a monster shot. His snap shot is strong with a quick release. Accuracy could use some work. He was feeding himself one timers with one of the self-passing machines and might I say wow. He has incredible control and power from a long way out. His shot is ready for the NHL right now. However, the rest of his game needs some development. Lots of development. His acceleration and top speed were very impressive, but his agility and edge control did not stand out. His hands were a little clumsy and he did not look very confident with the puck. Having said all this, I think with some development, his skill set will develop into something like a faster Aberg with a much much better shot. Hopefully not a one-trick pony...

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06-30-2017, 04:13 AM
  #124
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Yep, would be odd if the Jokerit rumor comes to reality but it wouldn't be the end of the world. If it doesnt work out, Jokerit will let him go, though there wouldnt be any room in Liiga as their teams are having childish boycott against Jokerit players. SHL?

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06-30-2017, 04:21 AM
  #125
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If he wants to play for the Preds quickly then his best bet is to stay in NA, imo.

The SHL is an interesting option but the more I think about it, the more I believe that Eeli having a season in the CHL and then signing an ELC and competing for an NHL roster spot in 18/19 is his best bet.

I've been watching video of him and his shot is special, might be top 5 in junior hockey. His also does generate quite a few turnovers.

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