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Jets General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 17-18 Part XVIX

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Old
06-27-2017, 06:14 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by GJF View Post
Elliott was always on the list. I'd prefer Raanta or Grubauer over him but I guess the Jets think it makes more sense to bring someone like Elliott in, who isn't looking for a long-time number one job cause of age etc. He seems to be liking the shared 1a/1b role and was thriving under it for some time. He might be the best option to pick up after all.

I'd be satisfied with him.
I think many of us preferred Raanta or Grubauer but it does look like the Rangers and Caps were only looking at moving those guys on their terms. IE. with contracts they would like to offload and picks/ELC contracts coming back. If not why not just hold on to inexpensive good young backups? That LV couldn't generate a goalie market is a bit of a mystery.

But maybe the plan all along was to give Helly the best chance to become that future starter and to get a good platoon vet known for being a mentor and good locker room guy.

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06-27-2017, 06:57 AM
  #77
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I think many of us preferred Raanta or Grubauer but it does look like the Rangers and Caps were only looking at moving those guys on their terms. IE. with contracts they would like to offload and picks/ELC contracts coming back. If not why not just hold on to inexpensive good young backups? That LV couldn't generate a goalie market is a bit of a mystery.

But maybe the plan all along was to give Helly the best chance to become that future starter and to get a good platoon vet known for being a mentor and good locker room guy.
Which would make sense and speak for the more conservative way the Jets try to handle their player development and asset management. I'm fine with that.

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06-27-2017, 07:18 AM
  #78
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I think many of us preferred Raanta or Grubauer but it does look like the Rangers and Caps were only looking at moving those guys on their terms. IE. with contracts they would like to offload and picks/ELC contracts coming back. If not why not just hold on to inexpensive good young backups? That LV couldn't generate a goalie market is a bit of a mystery.

But maybe the plan all along was to give Helly the best chance to become that future starter and to get a good platoon vet known for being a mentor and good locker room guy.
Looks like LV didn't generate much of a secondary market in D, either.

I still wonder what McPhee's strategy is. After free agency, the value of his plethora of middle and bottom pairing D is likely to decline further. He might end up losing a couple to the waiver wire. I wonder how GMs are feeling about him and his "Pledge" debacle.

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06-27-2017, 07:26 AM
  #79
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Looks like LV didn't generate much of a secondary market in D, either.

I still wonder what McPhee's strategy is. After free agency, the value of his plethora of middle and bottom pairing D is likely to decline further. He might end up losing a couple to the waiver wire. I wonder how GMs are feeling about him and his "Pledge" debacle.
I missed the pledge debacle Whileee what was that?

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06-27-2017, 07:28 AM
  #80
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Looks like LV didn't generate much of a secondary market in D, either.

I still wonder what McPhee's strategy is. After free agency, the value of his plethora of middle and bottom pairing D is likely to decline further. He might end up losing a couple to the waiver wire. I wonder how GMs are feeling about him and his "Pledge" debacle.
Not all that well I'd imagine. At any rate if I where Chevy and I wanted a dmen from him I'd wait until the eve of FA and then make an offer. Id bet we'd be able to get Merill at a very decent price.

All in all I don't think GMGM has done all that great of a job. He didn't get a tonne for allowing teams to protect players nor has he been able to peddle his excess stuff for anything worth while.

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06-27-2017, 07:43 AM
  #81
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After the Methot trade it's difficult to think 2nd+ wouldn't have been enough to get Grubauer. McPhee messed up.

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06-27-2017, 07:43 AM
  #82
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I missed the pledge debacle Whileee what was that?
https://sinbin.vegas/the-pledge/

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06-27-2017, 08:40 AM
  #83
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Not all that well I'd imagine. At any rate if I where Chevy and I wanted a dmen from him I'd wait until the eve of FA and then make an offer. Id bet we'd be able to get Merill at a very decent price.

All in all I don't think GMGM has done all that great of a job. He didn't get a tonne for allowing teams to protect players nor has he been able to peddle his excess stuff for anything worth while.
Maybe he didn't have any GM come to him asking for a Grubauer or Raanta deal. The market for D is stronger than the market for G so he defaulted to taking a lot of Dmen.

He got very little for Methot, but then Methot has been pretty bad the last couple of years. Lets see what he gets for some better ones. The waters are muddied a little by him keeping the best/youngest ones. If he traded Schmidt we could evaluate whether that price is higher than what we would have paid him to get Grubauer for us.

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06-27-2017, 08:44 AM
  #84
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For some reason every time i read or say Elliott 's name i think of E.T , Ellioooooot , drives me crazy . LOL . I like this signing because Helly can learn from a decent veteran goalie and not our goalie coach .

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06-27-2017, 08:53 AM
  #85
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I get it that he wasn't the sexiest pick but I think we have to put it in perspective. Our organization is committed to giving a very talented young goalie who struggled last season a legit shot in net. That alone would turn off any incoming goalie who wants to be the clear cut starter. Last season after a horrific start Eillot still clawed back to a .910 save % playing on a team with only 3 real defenseman and a team who played short handed as much as the Jets which kills a save %.

This is less about Elliot and more about Hellebuyck.....if Connor fails this season we should cut him loose because he is standing in the way and then do what we have to to bring in a clear cut stater but for now we were only going to get a guy willing to play in a 1b role and complete for the 1a. I think Elliot has proven he is a very capable option in that role.

As the optimist Paul McCarty would sing "things are getting a little better" then the pessimist John Lennon chimes in "it couldn't get no worse"

Until we rip the shoot on Helly this is about as good as it's going to get.
I wouldn't cut Helly loose until we can see him under a coaching staff that has proven competent with goalies.

To me Elliott is picking up a guy that all signs point to him being below average with almost zero promise. I'd sooner try and get a guy like Grubaur who could potentially do something for the team. Rather than a guy whose greatest high point is clawing to a .910

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06-27-2017, 08:57 AM
  #86
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I wouldn't cut Helly loose until we can see him under a coaching staff that has proven competent with goalies.

To me Elliott is picking up a guy that all signs point to him being below average with almost zero promise. I'd sooner try and get a guy like Grubaur who could potentially do something for the team. Rather than a guy whose greatest high point is clawing to a .910
What are these below average signs you speak of? His high point clawing to a .910? That was his low point the last 5 years.

I'm not sure why some are completely brushing his .930, .919 and. 92 plus the three prior years under the rug.

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06-27-2017, 09:02 AM
  #87
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I wouldn't cut Helly loose until we can see him under a coaching staff that has proven competent with goalies.

To me Elliott is picking up a guy that all signs point to him being below average with almost zero promise. I'd sooner try and get a guy like Grubaur who could potentially do something for the team. Rather than a guy whose greatest high point is clawing to a .910
One will cost zero assets....Who knows what Wash wants for Gru? We could think a 2nd + prospect makes them think about it.....What if they are asking for the moon?


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06-27-2017, 09:25 AM
  #88
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Looks like LV didn't generate much of a secondary market in D, either.

I still wonder what McPhee's strategy is. After free agency, the value of his plethora of middle and bottom pairing D is likely to decline further. He might end up losing a couple to the waiver wire. I wonder how GMs are feeling about him and his "Pledge" debacle.
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Not all that well I'd imagine. At any rate if I where Chevy and I wanted a dmen from him I'd wait until the eve of FA and then make an offer. Id bet we'd be able to get Merill at a very decent price.

All in all I don't think GMGM has done all that great of a job. He didn't get a tonne for allowing teams to protect players nor has he been able to peddle his excess stuff for anything worth while.
Agreed. Besides getting the 2 extra picks, I think GMGM botched the XD.

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06-27-2017, 09:33 AM
  #89
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What are these below average signs you speak of? His high point clawing to a .910? That was his low point the last 5 years.

I'm not sure why some are completely brushing his .930, .919 and. 92 plus the three prior years under the rug.
Because it's Ken Hitchcock who has a history of giving goaltenders numbers that are better than what they should be.

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06-27-2017, 09:35 AM
  #90
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Because it's Ken Hitchcock who has a history of giving goaltenders numbers that are better than what they should be.
That has been statistically proven to be false. Goalies do not do materially better under him than not.

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06-27-2017, 09:36 AM
  #91
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What are these below average signs you speak of? His high point clawing to a .910? That was his low point the last 5 years.

I'm not sure why some are completely brushing his .930, .919 and. 92 plus the three prior years under the rug.
They don't count. They were under Hitch.

Elliott is not my first choice, or even second. I don't like his age or his .910 last year. But he should be a significant upgrade on the goaltending we have had the last 6 years.

I want to get a true starter. Let Helle play behind him until such time as Helle is able to take the job from him. But I'll take the upgrade and hope Helle turns out to be the starter we really need.

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06-27-2017, 09:36 AM
  #92
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One will cost zero assets....Who knows what Wash wants for Gru? We could think a 2nd + prospect makes them think about it.....What if they are asking for the moon?
I'm fairly ambivalent towards the cost of mediocre assets who I don't feel will help the team in any discernible way.

If I had to lay down a prediction right now I'd say Elliott will probably end the year with us at a .903

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06-27-2017, 09:38 AM
  #93
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That has been statistically proven to be false. Goalies do not do materially better under him than not.
The only statistics I've seen compared Ken Hitchcock to career averages which is kind of stupid because it's using the stats while under Hitchcock against himself.

Seriously look at Elliott. With Hitchcock and without Hitchcock are starkly different.

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06-27-2017, 09:46 AM
  #94
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The only statistics I've seen compared Ken Hitchcock to career averages which is kind of stupid because it's using the stats while under Hitchcock against himself.

Seriously look at Elliott. With Hitchcock and without Hitchcock are starkly different.
So you'd rather look at an individual year or the start of his career to determine his ability?

If Hitch is this guru why did Allen's stats tank under him this year? Only to be amazing under Yeo. I guess Yeo is guru among guru's on defensive systems.

For the record Elliot is not my first choice but the amount of underselling on his ability is pretty funny. All his success is based only on coaching, which is laughable.

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06-27-2017, 09:50 AM
  #95
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So you'd rather look at an individual year or the start of his career to determine his ability?

If Hitch is this guru why did Allen's stats tank under him this year? Only to be amazing under Yeo. I guess Yeo is guru among guru's on defensive systems.

For the record Elliot is not my first choice but the amount of underselling on his ability is pretty funny. All his success is based only on coaching, which is laughable.
I guess I don't prefer a goalie who has been on multiple teams with multiple coaches and has only had success with one specific one.

But hey if you're so confidant in his ability why not put in a friendly display pic wager?

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06-27-2017, 09:51 AM
  #96
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I guess I don't prefer a goalie who has been on multiple teams with multiple coaches and has only had success with one specific one.

But hey if you're so confidant in his ability why not put in a friendly display pic wager?
Fair enough. What pic did you have in mind?

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06-27-2017, 09:55 AM
  #97
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I would like to see both Mikhail Grigorenko and Patrick Wiercioch signed by the Jets.

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06-27-2017, 10:06 AM
  #98
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I guess I don't prefer a goalie who has been on multiple teams with multiple coaches and has only had success with one specific one.

But hey if you're so confidant in his ability why not put in a friendly display pic wager?
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Fair enough. What pic did you have in mind?
This gettin' gud.

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06-27-2017, 10:48 AM
  #99
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I would like to see both Mikhail Grigorenko and Patrick Wiercioch signed by the Jets.
Wiercoch is one of those cases where coaches hate him and stats love him eh. Wouldn't hurt. Would help ensure Stu's career transition to the Moose...

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06-27-2017, 10:57 AM
  #100
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Wiercoch is one of those cases where coaches hate him and stats love him eh. Wouldn't hurt. Would help ensure Stu's career transition to the Moose...
I kind of doubt that type of player is on the Jets radar.

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