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McDavid's rumored extension and what it means for Johansen

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Old
06-30-2017, 09:30 AM
  #26
King Weber
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06-30-2017, 09:35 AM
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That doesn't surprise me. I think Poile will get it down to 8M as that is what I always thought it would cost us. Arvy is the harder guy to predict on how much it will cost us.

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06-30-2017, 09:35 AM
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Yep, 8x8 and lock Joey up.

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06-30-2017, 09:35 AM
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"at least" 8.5 million.

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06-30-2017, 09:39 AM
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8 million and call it a day.

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06-30-2017, 09:54 AM
  #31
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"at least" 8.5 million.
This is actually good news. He is asking for $8.5, and Poile is probably offering $6.5; they will settle for somewhere around $7.5 which is right around where he should be. Should be an easy negotiation.

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06-30-2017, 10:07 AM
  #32
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This is actually good news. He is asking for $8.5, and Poile is probably offering $6.5; they will settle for somewhere around $7.5 which is right around where he should be. Should be an easy negotiation.
In regards to the 8.5 million:


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06-30-2017, 10:32 AM
  #33
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In regards to the 8.5 million:

WTH is a "low end ask"? Once you throw it out there, that is the number. It would be like me trying to sell a car and saying that I want "at least $8,500". Nobody is going to pay me over $8,500 for my car after that statement.

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06-30-2017, 10:34 AM
  #34
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Ryan Kennedy of The HockeyNews tweeted that RyJo's camp asking for at least 8.5 per for long term deal

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06-30-2017, 10:35 AM
  #35
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This is how it goes all the time, I'd wait to get worked up until the actual contract is signed. I remember when Giordano wanted at least 9 million per, he signed for 6.75, we'll see what happens. I always thought 7.5 was the absolute minimum, so I wouldn't be surprised by 8-8.5, the cap keeps going up, that's how it is now.

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06-30-2017, 10:54 AM
  #36
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The low end ask is because of the 8 years. If we do not want to sign him to an 8 year contract the money goes up. I'm good with 8.5M as that is a reasonable ask for a #1 center. There are a ton of centers that will still be making more than him and he is still only 24.

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06-30-2017, 11:13 AM
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I agree with Jonesey. If he's asking $8.5, that probably settles into an 8x8 contract and i'm more than happy with that.

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06-30-2017, 11:22 AM
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I was expecting a higher ask TBH. Hopefully they are close.

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06-30-2017, 11:38 AM
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I think the ask is too high. Johansen is not a top 10 center in this league. He is a first line center. I do want him signed long-term.

This is just perfect timing. The McDavid contract inflation will push his ask way up.

I think 7 million is generous. 7.5 million is very good for Johansen. 8 million and he is adjusting the market for mid-tier number 1 centers. 8.5 million and he has redefined the market.

I suspect 7.5 to 7.75 million. We will see. It is hard for Poile not to sign him. I would be more comfortable with him getting 8-8.5 million then losing him.

I guess I was totally wrong BTW from my initial post. LOL.

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06-30-2017, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
I think the ask is too high. Johansen is not a top 10 center in this league. He is a first line center. I do want him signed long-term.

This is just perfect timing. The McDavid contract inflation will push his ask way up.

I think 7 million is generous. 7.5 million is very good for Johansen. 8 million and he is adjusting the market for mid-tier number 1 centers. 8.5 million and he has redefined the market.

I suspect 7.5 to 7.75 million. We will see. It is hard for Poile not to sign him. I would be more comfortable with him getting 8-8.5 million then losing him.

I guess I was totally wrong BTW from my initial post. LOL.
I see him as being on the level with a player like Kopitar and his cap hit is 10M per year. If I had to choose today between them I would choose Ryjo over Kopitar. 8.5M per isn't bad at all imo.

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06-30-2017, 11:47 AM
  #41
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Why would you choose RyJo over Kopitar?0 Kopitar is a PPG player, proven, and a top 10 center without a doubt. RyJo wants to be Kopitar. He is close to that level. He may develop into that level. He has never had the production Kopitar has had on a consistent basis.

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06-30-2017, 12:17 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
Why would you choose RyJo over Kopitar?0 Kopitar is a PPG player, proven, and a top 10 center without a doubt. RyJo wants to be Kopitar. He is close to that level. He may develop into that level. He has never had the production Kopitar has had on a consistent basis.
5 years older and had 52 points in 76 games last season. Both of their best seasons to date were at the age of 22. 71 for Ryjo and 81 for Kopitar. You have to consider the teams they were playing on at the time as well imo. LA was a far better team than the Jackets were those years and the level of skill of their line mates varied by a good bit. If you look at where they both were at the age of 24 they are pretty close.

If you take their performance over the past 4 years Ryjo has averaged 63.75 points a season. Kopitar has averaged 65 per season. They really do make for a good comparison.

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06-30-2017, 12:32 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Persona5 View Post
5 years older and had 52 points in 76 games last season. Both of their best seasons to date were at the age of 22. 71 for Ryjo and 81 for Kopitar. You have to consider the teams they were playing on at the time as well imo. LA was a far better team than the Jackets were those years and the level of skill of their line mates varied by a good bit. If you look at where they both were at the age of 24 they are pretty close.

If you take their performance over the past 4 years Ryjo has averaged 63.75 points a season. Kopitar has averaged 65 per season. They really do make for a good comparison.
You are doing a very favorable stat comp. Last year was Kopitars only statistical down year and it was on a really dysfunctional kings team. He has been a ppg player virtually every year. RyJo has been 60ish point player.

I think RyJo wants to be Kopitar and could be. He hasn't been. He is close but there is a difference historically. Going forward , I can see wanting RyJo based on age, and I think that is what you are saying. I get that and agree as an asset and potential.

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06-30-2017, 12:53 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
You are doing a very favorable stat comp. Last year was Kopitars only statistical down year and it was on a really dysfunctional kings team. He has been a ppg player virtually every year. RyJo has been 60ish point player.

I think RyJo wants to be Kopitar and could be. He hasn't been. He is close but there is a difference historically. Going forward , I can see wanting RyJo based on age, and I think that is what you are saying. I get that and agree as an asset and potential.
Some more comparisons- looks pretty close to me

Last 4 years:

Kopitar: 0.82 points per game (0.26 goals/0.56 assists per game)

Johansen: 0.79 points per game (0.22 goals per game/0.57 assists per game)

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06-30-2017, 01:48 PM
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I'm not picking between the two but let's not sleep on Kopitar's defensive ability.

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06-30-2017, 03:32 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by drwpreds View Post
Some more comparisons- looks pretty close to me

Last 4 years:

Kopitar: 0.82 points per game (0.26 goals/0.56 assists per game)

Johansen: 0.79 points per game (0.22 goals per game/0.57 assists per game)
This isn't incorrect, but it also has Kopitar's worst season (last season). This is relevant, but I would also point out that Kopitar has been over 70 points 6 times, and in 2012-2013, he had 42 points in 47 games. Last year was the only year below 60. He is an 8 time 20 goal scorer, and he has eclipse 30 several times and been on the cusp of eclipsing 30 several other times. RyJo has only eclipsed 70 once, and has been at 60, 61, 63 the other seasons.

It honestly hasn't been that close prior to last season.

Again, last season is relevant as is age. However, Kopitar's career trajectory and peak looks a lot different than what RyJo has accomplished thus far.

This is all relevant when you are discussing salary structure and use Kopitar as a comp.

I think we are probably on the same page, but I am explaining my comments.

-----------

Saying all that, clearly the agent is angling for top 10 center money, and he will probably get it. Lining up with the McDavid monster deal will really hurt us.

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06-30-2017, 03:45 PM
  #47
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I don't think this has anything at all to do with McDavid. Ryan O'Reilly signed for 7x7.5 when the cap was 71.4 million. He had never broken 55 points as a center (had 64 points 1 year when he played wing the entire year). Krejci signed for 6x7.25 the same offseason. It's the market now and it was this way well before the McDavid rumors

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Old
06-30-2017, 03:50 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
This isn't incorrect, but it also has Kopitar's worst season (last season). This is relevant, but I would also point out that Kopitar has been over 70 points 6 times, and in 2012-2013, he had 42 points in 47 games. Last year was the only year below 60. He is an 8 time 20 goal scorer, and he has eclipse 30 several times and been on the cusp of eclipsing 30 several other times. RyJo has only eclipsed 70 once, and has been at 60, 61, 63 the other seasons.

It honestly hasn't been that close prior to last season.

Again, last season is relevant as is age. However, Kopitar's career trajectory and peak looks a lot different than what RyJo has accomplished thus far.

This is all relevant when you are discussing salary structure and use Kopitar as a comp.

I think we are probably on the same page, but I am explaining my comments.

-----------

Saying all that, clearly the agent is angling for top 10 center money, and he will probably get it. Lining up with the McDavid monster deal will really hurt us.
Agreed and I'll say that if both players were 22 I would take Kopitar. I just think the 8.5M ask isn't really all that high considering kopitar signed that contract a couple years ago at 10M per. He would command even more now. I just really hope Poile doesn't drag this through the mud to much and try to low ball him down much. We finally have our #1 center and he should be paid like one.

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Old
06-30-2017, 03:54 PM
  #49
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Agreed and I'll say that if both players were 22 I would take Kopitar. I just think the 8.5M ask isn't really all that high considering kopitar signed that contract a couple years ago at 10M per. He would command even more now. I just really hope Poile doesn't drag this through the mud to much and try to low ball him down much. We finally have our #1 center and he should be paid like one.
I agree with all of this. I would still try my hardest to get a 7.5 millionish deal. The extra 1 million can be huge. I agree, though, if 8.5 is the bottom line, Preds will probably suck it up and do the deal. He is too important.

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06-30-2017, 06:52 PM
  #50
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So did we get stuck on the fact that maybe RyJo isn't quite as good as Kopitar and lose sight of the fact that the starting point RyJo's camp put out there was less than Kopitar's number?

I'm not sure what the argument is at this point because it seems the ask would fall in line with the assertion that RyJo isn't quite Kopitar (from a ppg perspective).

Kopitar @ 28 years old 8 years @ 10m per
vs.
RyJo @ 24 years old 8 years @ 8.5m per (probably lower)

Give me Johansen.

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